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TA07 Pro as 17.5 blinky outdoor race car?

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A local-ish club are resuming their racing by running some practice days, with a view to starting racing again when conditions allow.  I'm not a fast racer so would be looking at the 17.5 blinky class.

How does the TA07 Pro stack up as a club car?  Last time I raced a Tamiya at club level it was a TA05, and nobody could ever get it set up as well as the Xrays or Schumachers.

I'll get in touch with the club to see what people run these days (their website is a bit out of date in that respect) but would be good to get some feedback on the '07.  The current top-level cars are all a bit too spendy for me.

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Thats what I have for 21.5T and the car is fine, its good enough to keep up, but I wasn't consistent enough. I found that I needed a few essential hop ups, so consider a Pro with these vs an R or RR. I think the RR will be the one to get due to the carbon fibre stiffeners.

I got lucky and bought a bunch of hopups off someone who was selling their car, so got most of them half price which made it more palatable.

Alloy suspension blocks, necessary as the plastic kit ones developed play and I had to shim after each meet. Since getting alloy there is no play and no need for shims, even after crashing all the time.

Carbon fibre stiffeners, necessary as the kit ones give a really flexible car, too flexy. So much flex the belt could skip. I have all the stiffeners, kit, carbon reinforced plastic, carbon fibre and the carbon centre one. I am running the carbon fibre ones but not the centre one and its good for asphalt. I would add the centre one for carpet as it makes it super stiff.

Swaybar kit, necessary tuning option, dialled out oversteer but needed advice from @ThunderDragonCy for that.

Alloy wheel hexes, no idea why they don't come with them but they don't! 

Alloy counter pulley. I would get it, its cheap and the plastic one is made up of 2 pieces glued together. 

Carbon damper stays, not sure if necessary or at the top of the nice to have list. The kit ones are bendy, but whether it makes a massive difference I don't know. Race meets are a month apart so was hard to tell if it made a difference.

Servo mount - i have one but not 100% sure its necessary. RCTech say it is. Probably noce to have.

Alloy motor mounts, relatively cheap and appear to be better but the chassis is plastic so not sure if they were worth it.

I run 1M oil in the front diff and have found the kit universals to be fine. Apparently if you go for a spool then you need the DCJ's which are spendy.

You can also get a 20T pulley for a few dollars which drops the IR to 1.85 from 2.15, which can be useful for gearing options. Its a few dollars, 3Racing make it. Also, I switched to 48p spur and pinions.

 

Now, which TA07 kit to get. My opinion is the carbon stiffeners, sway bars and alloy suspension blocks are 100% necessary. You may have the suspension blocks from the TA05 or other cars.  The Pro comes with none, the R comes with them except the stiffeners, and the RR comes with them all. Personally I don't think the R is great value since it still needs the stiffeners. It of course has dcj, SSBB dampers, alloy steering etc etc, but I think a lot of that is bling for someone with my (in)ability.

I think this would make the RR the best bet if your budget can stretch (basing off the RRP I've seen, the RR should be about USD50 - USD100 more than the R and it has the TRF420 suspension too), or the Pro with those essential hopups factored in.

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Awesome, thanks for the advice @Jonathon Gillham, I'll hunt around to see if I can find prices on an RR anywhere.  Still trying to decide if it's really worth the cash - I haven't raced touring in years as I got annoyed with a) not being very good and b) constantly chasing setups and hop-ups every week.  I'd prefer vintage touring racing (it's a shame the Iconic Cup was cancelled this year as I'd gone crazy and booked into two whole rounds), but in these times we have to run what we can.  With uncertainty still in the air we don't know what else will be running locally as most things are indoor.  There are some older Xrays on ebay that might be enough to get me started.

The main appeal is that the track is in a beautiful location on an active airport, it's open to members all year (pandemic notwithstanding) and it's a really nice motorcycle ride to get there.  I love the idea of finishing work early on a sunny afternoon, heading up for a few hours practice then riding home in the sunset :)

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That sounds perfect, a decent setup which is available all year round. I find it so hard to improve when you can only get to the track once a month, and thats for a race meet so no chance to practice or try different setup.

A used Xray would fit the bill too, by all accounts those things are bulletproof and always a front runner

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you would probably find it a cheaper option to buy a 2nd hand xray t4. great cars with a large set up window, and to be fair better on track that most tamiyas.

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On 6/1/2020 at 1:54 PM, Jonathon Gillham said:

Thats what I have for 21.5T and the car is fine, its good enough to keep up, but I wasn't consistent enough. I found that I needed a few essential hop ups, so consider a Pro with these vs an R or RR. I think the RR will be the one to get due to the carbon fibre stiffeners.

I got lucky and bought a bunch of hopups off someone who was selling their car, so got most of them half price which made it more palatable.

Alloy suspension blocks, necessary as the plastic kit ones developed play and I had to shim after each meet. Since getting alloy there is no play and no need for shims, even after crashing all the time.

Carbon fibre stiffeners, necessary as the kit ones give a really flexible car, too flexy. So much flex the belt could skip. I have all the stiffeners, kit, carbon reinforced plastic, carbon fibre and the carbon centre one. I am running the carbon fibre ones but not the centre one and its good for asphalt. I would add the centre one for carpet as it makes it super stiff.

Swaybar kit, necessary tuning option, dialled out oversteer but needed advice from @ThunderDragonCy for that.

Alloy wheel hexes, no idea why they don't come with them but they don't! 

Alloy counter pulley. I would get it, its cheap and the plastic one is made up of 2 pieces glued together. 

Carbon damper stays, not sure if necessary or at the top of the nice to have list. The kit ones are bendy, but whether it makes a massive difference I don't know. Race meets are a month apart so was hard to tell if it made a difference.

Servo mount - i have one but not 100% sure its necessary. RCTech say it is. Probably noce to have.

Alloy motor mounts, relatively cheap and appear to be better but the chassis is plastic so not sure if they were worth it.

I run 1M oil in the front diff and have found the kit universals to be fine. Apparently if you go for a spool then you need the DCJ's which are spendy.

You can also get a 20T pulley for a few dollars which drops the IR to 1.85 from 2.15, which can be useful for gearing options. Its a few dollars, 3Racing make it. Also, I switched to 48p spur and pinions.

 

Now, which TA07 kit to get. My opinion is the carbon stiffeners, sway bars and alloy suspension blocks are 100% necessary. You may have the suspension blocks from the TA05 or other cars.  The Pro comes with none, the R comes with them except the stiffeners, and the RR comes with them all. Personally I don't think the R is great value since it still needs the stiffeners. It of course has dcj, SSBB dampers, alloy steering etc etc, but I think a lot of that is bling for someone with my (in)ability.

I think this would make the RR the best bet if your budget can stretch (basing off the RRP I've seen, the RR should be about USD50 - USD100 more than the R and it has the TRF420 suspension too), or the Pro with those essential hopups factored in.

hey,
 Just reading this as I just grabbed myself a TA07 PRO, and will be taking it to the Black Carpet in a couple of months. assuming things like toy car racing is back on.
  Was just wondering if you happened to have any part numbers of the stuff you listed?
   And thanks to OP for asking very similar questions to what I had :-)

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2 hours ago, stulec52 said:

hey,
 Just reading this as I just grabbed myself a TZ07 PRO, and will be taking it to the Black Carpet in a couple of months. assuming things like toy car racing is back on.
  Was just wondering if you happened to have any part numbers of the stuff you listed?
   And thanks to OP for asking very similar questions to what I had :-)

I think black carpet is very high grip isn't it?  I race on asphalt or a strange carpet that is for indoor cricket and netball, so you may need more stuff too.  The main thing will be to stiffen it up, so the carbon centre brace and probably the reinforced chassis as well.  Or a carbon upgrade like the Exotek RS7 or PSM or RCLab HK.

Alloy suspension mounts.  There are some new adjustable ones which may be better but I don't know anything about them.  It looks like they have inserts though so you can change those and get 3 different positions, instead of needing new alloy mounts for each position.

Look at 54880 as an example, and 54885 for the split ones.

I have the older style, look at 54703 and 54698 as examples.  You will need to work out which ones you need though depending on toe and track width.  This article has all the info you need about these ones.

https://www.thercracer.com/2017/01/tamiya-suspension-mount-ultimate.html

Carbon centre stiffener 54755 (this ones an extra, not a carbon version of a kit one, really stiffens it up)

Carbon version of kit ones 54788 and 54789

Carbon reinforced versions of kit stiffeners 54744.  I have these as well as the carbon ones, so I can adjust flex (if I knew what I was doing)

Carbon reinforced chassis - 54745 (this could be good for black carpet)

Sway bars - 42281 and 53827 (need both, one is the swaybar set and the other is the rod stoppers)

Springs - 53440.  I bought 2 sets but I think you only need one as you don't have the same at each end.  There is also a white version (49382) which matches the kit springs, but I have the coloured version.

Damper stays -54721 and 54720 for the kit dampers.  You can use the SSBB dampers and buy the damper stays for those too but I didn't bother.  The dampers are really expensive and I'm not really sure why they are that much better.

The alloy counter pulley is 54706

Motor mount posts are 54725

Servo mount 54724

This pulley converts it to the same IR as the TA07MS https://www.rcmart.com/3racing-center-pulley-set-20t-for-3racing-sakura-zero-sak-07-00032891

I also have a spare gear diff (51568) as I used it to try out different oil weights.  Its much easier to turn up to the track with complete diffs rather than muck around with them between races.

I'm pretty sure thats it but may have missed some bits.

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19 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

I think black carpet is very high grip isn't it?  I race on asphalt or a strange carpet that is for indoor cricket and netball, so you may need more stuff too.  The main thing will be to stiffen it up, so the carbon centre brace and probably the reinforced chassis as well.  Or a carbon upgrade like the Exotek RS7 or PSM or RCLab HK.

Alloy suspension mounts.  There are some new adjustable ones which may be better but I don't know anything about them.  It looks like they have inserts though so you can change those and get 3 different positions, instead of needing new alloy mounts for each position.

Look at 54880 as an example, and 54885 for the split ones.

I have the older style, look at 54703 and 54698 as examples.  You will need to work out which ones you need though depending on toe and track width.  This article has all the info you need about these ones.

https://www.thercracer.com/2017/01/tamiya-suspension-mount-ultimate.html

Carbon centre stiffener 54755 (this ones an extra, not a carbon version of a kit one, really stiffens it up)

Carbon version of kit ones 54788 and 54789

Carbon reinforced versions of kit stiffeners 54744.  I have these as well as the carbon ones, so I can adjust flex (if I knew what I was doing)

Carbon reinforced chassis - 54745 (this could be good for black carpet)

Sway bars - 42281 and 53827 (need both, one is the swaybar set and the other is the rod stoppers)

Springs - 53440.  I bought 2 sets but I think you only need one as you don't have the same at each end.  There is also a white version (49382) which matches the kit springs, but I have the coloured version.

Damper stays -54721 and 54720 for the kit dampers.  You can use the SSBB dampers and buy the damper stays for those too but I didn't bother.  The dampers are really expensive and I'm not really sure why they are that much better.

The alloy counter pulley is 54706

Motor mount posts are 54725

Servo mount 54724

This pulley converts it to the same IR as the TA07MS https://www.rcmart.com/3racing-center-pulley-set-20t-for-3racing-sakura-zero-sak-07-00032891

I also have a spare gear diff (51568) as I used it to try out different oil weights.  Its much easier to turn up to the track with complete diffs rather than muck around with them between races.

I'm pretty sure thats it but may have missed some bits.

oooooo that's a ton of great info, thank you so much.
 YES, black carpet is crazy high grip.
 I also have a 419, so I really don't want to spend a ton of money on the 07, my thought was to run it in our 21.5 class.
 at that speed, a little bit of chassis flex won't be my biggest problem I'd say.
   Actually I might still run an old TA-04 just for a laugh, but just to know some of the things that will help me make it less frustrating is a big help.
 I'm going to put the Tamiya 54886( OP.1886 ) suspension kit on it for sure
 and I think that some of the carbon stiffeners might help a little
  Thanks !!
 

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16 hours ago, stulec52 said:

oooooo that's a ton of great info, thank you so much.
 YES, black carpet is crazy high grip.
 I also have a 419, so I really don't want to spend a ton of money on the 07, my thought was to run it in our 21.5 class.
 at that speed, a little bit of chassis flex won't be my biggest problem I'd say.
   Actually I might still run an old TA-04 just for a laugh, but just to know some of the things that will help me make it less frustrating is a big help.
 I'm going to put the Tamiya 54886( OP.1886 ) suspension kit on it for sure
 and I think that some of the carbon stiffeners might help a little
  Thanks !!
 

I'm tossing up between 54886 or just getting the harder arms from the 419.  I think I'll go with the 419 stuff due to cost.  I have my cart fill at RCMart with an RS7 chassis conversion plus random bits (not all for the TA07) and it'll be about USD$200 all up including shipping.  I'm still well under a TA07MS and the car will be getting close to that if I go ahead with this.

I also run 1M diff oil in the front which means I don't need the DCJ's which are another expensive piece of kit.

Also, I think its worth considering one of the carbon conversions to the pro rather than all the stiffeners, it will obviously cost more but not that much by the time you buy them all, and you will probably get a better result.  In saying that, the TA07RR is sticking with the plastic tub and carbon stiffeners so there may be something in that.

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6 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

I'm tossing up between 54886 or just getting the harder arms from the 419.  I think I'll go with the 419 stuff due to cost.  I have my cart fill at RCMart with an RS7 chassis conversion plus random bits (not all for the TA07) and it'll be about USD$200 all up including shipping.  I'm still well under a TA07MS and the car will be getting close to that if I go ahead with this.

I also run 1M diff oil in the front which means I don't need the DCJ's which are another expensive piece of kit.

Also, I think its worth considering one of the carbon conversions to the pro rather than all the stiffeners, it will obviously cost more but not that much by the time you buy them all, and you will probably get a better result.  In saying that, the TA07RR is sticking with the plastic tub and carbon stiffeners so there may be something in that.

that's a tricky one.
 I like the look of the Exotek conversion, and it's actually cheaper than much of the 'upgrades'
 BUT. I would love to do a TCS event in the future. It may not happen, but I'm pretty sure non Tamiya parts won't be legal :-)

 

thanks again !

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ill throw my head on the chopping block and ask.... what is blinky?

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1 hour ago, Finnsllc said:

ill throw my head on the chopping block and ask.... what is blinky?

Blinky mode is when the ESC has no electronic timing (usually referred to as boost or turbo) programmed in.  Its referred to as "blinky mode" because ROAR Approved ESC's (and probably most others) have a light that blinks in a certain pattern (it changes depending on the brand, there is no set way it has to blink) to tell the scrutineer that the driver isn't cheating by programming their ESC.  If you change the settings which make it illegal for that class, the light won't blink.  Its also called Stock Class and with a motor limit too, usually 21.5T, 17.5T or 13.5T.  You can still do a lot of programming (punch, brake strength etc), just not dynamic timing on the motor.  It also means you can have one ESC that can run either stock or mod just by changing the programming.

If you have a programmable ESC you can get an amazing amount of extra speed from a motor, even a high turn 21.5T or 17.5T can be ridiculously fast with ESC programming.  Thats different to the endbell timing on a motor, that is fixed timing and there is always a trade-off between heat and rpm.  ESC timing is dynamic, so you would usually set the endbell timing lower, then boost at certain RPM, then turbo for more top end on the long straights. 

Blinky puts a lot of stress on the motor as you are trying to get as much speed out of it as possible so run a fan, and if the fan breaks then that could be the motor cooked and needing replacement after 1 6 minute race.  Mod requires a much better ESC, usually around 160amp, and you can pop ESC's but the motors aren't usually under stress. 

Mod classes which have no limits, so any motor and you can do whatever you want with the ESC.

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On 6/1/2020 at 2:25 PM, Mad Ax said:

A local-ish club are resuming their racing by running some practice days, with a view to starting racing again when conditions allow.  I'm not a fast racer so would be looking at the 17.5 blinky class.

How does the TA07 Pro stack up as a club car?  Last time I raced a Tamiya at club level it was a TA05, and nobody could ever get it set up as well as the Xrays or Schumachers.

I'll get in touch with the club to see what people run these days (their website is a bit out of date in that respect) but would be good to get some feedback on the '07.  The current top-level cars are all a bit too spendy for me.

It all depends on the type of racing and track.  If it's not a serious racing scene, kinda of bring your car place, the TA07 should be fine.  But if you're in local tournament with people that can setup up their cars and are competitive, the tamiya would end up getting lapped by the BD10, T4, or mi7.  It would take a lot of hop ops for the TA07 to keep up.  The weight alone is an issue for the TA07 plus all the plastic.  It's been 3 years since I did competitive on-road racing but even a cheap sakura 3acing pro kit is better suited out of the box.  

 

It's all up to you and what you want to do.  Someone mentioned getting a used xray.  That's what I'd do if you want to race competitively.  

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T2 shop is selling brand new TRF419XR kits for £270 if you want a bargain Tamiya racer

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On 7/6/2020 at 1:56 AM, qatmix said:

T2 shop is selling brand new TRF419XR kits for £270 if you want a bargain Tamiya racer

what is T2 shop?

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Just now, Fabia130vRS said:

Its a german rc shop and rc track.

thanks
 Although Tamico can't ship to Canada right now, so I'm not sure if that's the same for other German companies?
  Also, I thought it was a UK based company as price was given in UK pounds 

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2 hours ago, stulec52 said:

thanks
 Although Tamico can't ship to Canada right now, so I'm not sure if that's the same for other German companies?
  Also, I thought it was a UK based company as price was given in UK pounds 

That is because of your Settings. I get prices in EU. And it is definitely in germany

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On 7/6/2020 at 11:50 PM, Fabia130vRS said:

How does the TB07EVO compare to the TA07PRO?

 

 

I would expect the TB EVO7 would be compared with the TA07MS or TRF419 or TRF420? The TA07Pro is the entry level racer, thr TB Evo car is the competitive racer. Its shaft vs belt drive though, so up to you which you prefer. I honestly don't know how to compare them though as it really depends what you like.

I have a real soft spot for the TA07 though and have spent way too much on it if thats any indication?

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