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kid168

Top Force and Manta Ray

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Does anyone know what lengths are the front and rear camber turnbuckles and steering turnbuckles of the Top Force? Are these the same lengths as the Manta Ray?

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What I meant was the length of the whole turnbuckle rod. The pdf file is blurry. Also, what length will work with the Manta Ray? Will the length of the Top Force turnbuckles do?

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As far as I am aware they will fit. Go onto bangood and search formm3 threaded rod. They sell lengths of it for pennies which you can cut down and add your own ball ends. The black rod looks just like the original top force rods 

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On 6/3/2020 at 12:18 AM, kid168 said:

Does anyone know what lengths are the front and rear camber turnbuckles and steering turnbuckles of the Top Force? Are these the same lengths as the Manta Ray?

I replaced the kit ones on my Top Force with turnbuckles.  You need the following lengths in M3, and of course you need 2 of each:

38mm for the rear upper arms

32mm for the front upper arms

42mm for the steering tie rods

There is also another 38mm one for the steering set up, but I didn't bother getting a turnbuckle for this.

I assume that these will work with the Manta Ray too, but you'll probably need to buy the rest of the hardware too, but if you have a Top Force you just need the turnbuckles themselves as the kit ends and ball studs work.  

 

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What @Jonathon Gillham said. 
 

3racing make Ti turnbuckles in the correct sizing, but it’s order from HK.

i recently restored a Manta and used Schumacher turnbuckles, each 1/2mm our of perfect sizing, but they worked fine.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

I replaced the kit ones on my Top Force with turnbuckles.  You need the following lengths in M3, and of course you need 2 of each:

38mm for the rear upper arms

32mm for the front upper arms

42mm for the steering tie rods

There is also another 38mm one for the steering set up, but I didn't bother getting a turnbuckle for this.

I assume that these will work with the Manta Ray too, but you'll probably need to buy the rest of the hardware too, but if you have a Top Force you just need the turnbuckles themselves as the kit ends and ball studs work.  

 

Thanks, this measurements will work with the Manta also right?

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8 minutes ago, kid168 said:

Thanks, this measurements will work with the Manta also right?

I would assume the upper arms are because they have the same arms and c hubs, but could have different attachment points on the chassis? @matisse has had both recently and may be able to confirm?

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10 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

I would assume the upper arms are because they have the same arms and c hubs, but could have different attachment points on the chassis? @matisse has had both recently and may be able to confirm?

Yup, they are the same.   See my build about them

 

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10 hours ago, kid168 said:

Anyone know the factory shock(yellow) length of the Manta?

If I remember rightly , 83mm front , 93mm rear

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7 hours ago, matisse said:

If I remember rightly , 83mm front , 93mm rear

almost the same as the Top Force

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2 hours ago, kid168 said:

almost the same as the Top Force

Tbf I think they are identical in this regard

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20 hours ago, matisse said:

Yup, they are the same.   See my build about them

 

I am in the process of upgrading my Manta Ray's plastic upper arms to turnbuckles while keeping the original shock towers, exactly like you did.

Personally, I've measured the arms to be 50mm front and 60mm back, eye to eye, and 55mm and 65mm total lenght. I've recently found perfectly suitable turnbuckles, they come with adjusters+inner ball, so I'd just need the screws to fit them. Problem is, the bigger bore on both rear and front shock towers.

I've read through your Manta Force thread but, for some obscure reasons, your pics just wouldn't show which made it a bit hard to understand and I feel I've kinda missed out some info on the way. Fortunately I've managed to somehow download this key pic, which shows me you did find a great solution for that.

20200606-115159.jpg

Can you please tell me which part this is? sort of a kingpin? As it's exactly what I need.

Also, can I fit a screw on this kingpin like you fit the ball end, or is the ball end part of it (in which case it wouldn't work with the turnbuckles I was gonna get)?

Thank you!

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30 minutes ago, Ferruz said:

I am in the process of upgrading my Manta Ray's plastic upper arms to turnbuckles while keeping the original shock towers, exactly like you did.

Personally, I've measured the arms to be 50mm front and 60mm back, eye to eye, and 55mm and 65mm total lenght. I've recently found perfectly suitable turnbuckles, they come with adjusters+inner ball, so I'd just need the screws to fit them. Problem is, the bigger bore on both rear and front shock towers.

I've read through your Manta Force thread but, for some obscure reasons, your pics just wouldn't show which made it a bit hard to understand and I feel I've kinda missed out some info on the way. Fortunately I've managed to somehow download this key pic, which shows me you did find a great solution for that.

20200606-115159.jpg

Can you please tell me which part this is? sort of a kingpin? As it's exactly what I need.

Also, can I fit a screw on this kingpin like you fit the ball end, or is the ball end part of it (in which case it wouldn't work with the turnbuckles I was gonna get)?

Thank you!

That’s simply an m3 screw, countersunk instead of cap as I was waiting on new cap screws, that goes Then goes through the shock tower to a bolt through ball end.  

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5 hours ago, matisse said:

That’s simply an m3 screw, countersunk instead of cap as I was waiting on new cap screws, that goes Then goes through the shock tower to a bolt through ball end.  

Thanks, though I didn't quite get it yet. How is the ball end attached to the screw? May I trouble you for a picture?

I feel like I'm lost in a glass of water here, not getting something quite simple. And yet, given the bigger bore of the shock tower I'm not sure how you get that to work...

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7 hours ago, Ferruz said:

Thanks, though I didn't quite get it yet. How is the ball end attached to the screw? May I trouble you for a picture?

I feel like I'm lost in a glass of water here, not getting something quite simple. And yet, given the bigger bore of the shock tower I'm not sure how you get that to work...

That ball connector is the nut, so it simply clamps through the hole in the shock tower.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/index.php?product_id=372215&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_ez2BRCyARIsAJfg-kuFgb6_Ud0zCx3Ifpi56TPCj0kKD0YqNXCVLWB7Wx5lF1GVHroOVuUaAmbYEALw_wcB

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10 hours ago, matisse said:

Aaah now I finally get it. Thank you. I didn't know that existed :ph34r: I'm going to get these for sure. One last thing, can I screw this ball connectors/nuts to the original kit screws or better get something like this instead? 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/index.php?product_id=2071

I appreciate your help mate.

@kid168 I have measured the upper arms to be 50mm front and 60mm back, eye to eye, so that's the lenght I'd like to start with and then of course work around it to modify camber as needed.

As mentioned above, I though I found some suitable turnbuckles but they come with the ball end too(ball embedded in the adjuster) so I couldn't install them the way @matisse did, which I now prefere, so now I'll be back to researching.

In the meantime I'm waiting for some 3x42mm steering turnbuckles, I might just wait for them to see if they are long enough for the back upper arms, maybe longer ball adjusters will do the trick? They sure would work in the front. Do my measurements match yours? 

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25 minutes ago, Ferruz said:

Aaah now I finally get it. Thank you. I didn't know that existed :ph34r: I'm going to get these for sure. One last thing, can I screw this ball connectors/nuts to the original kit screws or better get something like this instead? 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/index.php?product_id=2071

Nope they are for the steering knuckles, but they are good. Get them anyway!

when you’re measuring don’t forget the length of the ball ends, hence all the recommendations for turnbuckles shorter that the measurements 

TBH, the Schumacher turnbuckles are the best value for money if you’re ordering in the IMO

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@matisse can you please let me know the lenght of your Schumacher turnbuckles for your Manta Ray? I'd like to order just the same for mine.

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might be the same as the Top Force, 3x38 and 3x32. I bought Arrowmax spring steel turnbuckles

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On 6/11/2020 at 4:51 PM, Ferruz said:

@matisse can you please let me know the lenght of your Schumacher turnbuckles for your Manta Ray? I'd like to order just the same for mine.

Pretty sure I used 35/39/45 mm

 

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@matisse Thanks for the info, I finally ordered everything needed. If the Tamiya plastic ball cups are 24mm long as stated in the technical specs, I should be good! But all the parts gotta get here first so... now I wait.

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