What do we really expect out of a Re-Re?

[Falcon#5]

19 minutes ago, XJman said:

People get too hung up on how newer chassis look. They see the colored aluminum, the carbon fiber, the intentional attractive design elements and think that means good, or better. Then they see a Tamiya with it's keep it simple philosophy and think it's trash.

When i see a re-re I expect one thing only. Access to a model that i may have not had access to before.

 

My quality modern race cars have no coloured *******y ally parts.

From my experience, it's the cheap Chinese rubbish that rely on the fancy coloured parts to attract (suck in) unsuspecting inexperienced buyers.

My modern race cars will run rings around my vintage/rere cars.

I collect vintage/rere cars because they were the cars I always wanted when I was young.

 

[XJman]

1 minute ago, Falcon#5 said:

My quality modern race cars have no coloured *******y ally parts.

From my experience, it's the cheap Chinese rubbish that rely on the fancy coloured parts to attract (suck in) unsuspecting inexperienced buyers.

My modern race cars will run rings around my vintage/rere cars.

I collect vintage/rere cars because they were the cars I always wanted when I was young.

 

Sure. Most people can't even keep a modern car with 2s and a stock motor on its wheels long enough to run rings around a dead racoon though. I don't know if you've seen the Reddit page for RC cars but it's a show. I quit going there because it's a circle jerk of how much absolute power/why did my car break it's only running supermassive power.

To be fair it's been a few years since I've purchased much that wasn't a crawler. However much of my associated stuff all had colored aluminum and carbon fiber. Your right, the Chinese stuff does too, and people buy it up all day long because of it.

 

[•Axle]

Seeing these things on the internet go to the skateparks do huge jumps and tumble whichever way doesn’t appeal to me, the proportions look wrong, it’s all wheels and a makeshift lid with tiny windows, it’s not even about the car or any realism. Overall for me is that there’s no character to the vehicle.

I cannot take something like that to the park, weave it back and forth with other families around, I’m definitely more casual than hardcore.

[Pinoy808]

5 hours ago, Mrowka said:

designed by bros to appeal to WWE enthusiasts.

Haha, sounds like you described my stampede.

[Mrowka]

1 hour ago, Pinoy808 said:

Haha, sounds like you described my stampede.

No offense intended. My aesthetic judgements are not to be confused with universal truths.

[Mrowka]

6 hours ago, XJman said:

Sure. Most people can't even keep a modern car with 2s and a stock motor on its wheels long enough to run rings around a dead racoon though. I don't know if you've seen the Reddit page for RC cars but it's a show. I quit going there because it's a circle jerk of how much absolute power/why did my car break it's only running supermassive power.

To be fair it's been a few years since I've purchased much that wasn't a crawler. However much of my associated stuff all had colored aluminum and carbon fiber. Your right, the Chinese stuff does too, and people buy it up all day long because of it.

 

There is an analogous phenomenon in modern autos. Now that turbochargers are relatively cheap, available, and easily installed, horsepower levels that were once almost unattainable become so easy that any moron can achieve them by nightfall.

Reliability under high boost, not so much.

It also makes car tuning somewhat boring, now that big power is easy.

Something similar seems to be the case with cars, now that brushless and lipos make it easy for anyone to get all the raw power that they and their equipment can handle.

 

[Fruitfly01]

14 minutes ago, Mrowka said:

Something similar seems to be the case with cars, now that brushless and lipos make it easy for anyone to get all the raw power that they and their equipment can handle.

 

Or can't handle, as is often the case.

[Mrowka]

1 hour ago, Fruitfly01 said:

Or can't handle, as is often the case.

I was going to write "can handle and more" but I got distracted.

[Saito2]

1 hour ago, Mrowka said:

There is an analogous phenomenon in modern autos. Now that turbochargers are relatively cheap, available, and easily installed, horsepower levels that were once almost unattainable become so easy that any moron can achieve them by nightfall.

Reliability under high boost, not so much.

It also makes car tuning somewhat boring, now that big power is easy.

Something similar seems to be the case with cars, now that brushless and lipos make it easy for anyone to get all the raw power that they and their equipment can handle.

 

Having been professionally in the car world most of my adult life, I can relate to this connection. When I started out, we would dig up decent flowing factory iron cylinder heads, like SBC double humps and then go to work porting them. Aluminum heads were somewhat exotic. Then aluminum heads became prolific. Then the Chinese aluminum heads hit and they became cheap and prolific. The LS engines hit the salvage yards and now anybody with a pulse can make big stupid power. There's no finesse, no experimentation. And its boring. Yes, big power was always the same destination, whether you were pulling it out bit by bit with every trick in the book back in the late 70's/early 80's or taking the quick and easy way out in today's era with boosted LS powerplants. The thing some of us aging folks have since discovered is that the journey was more important than the destination. I daily drive a foxbody 5.0 and nowadays, an average family sedan makes more power...but I don't care. The 5.0 has an infinitely higher "cool factor", nebulous as that may be.

The same goes for RC in my case. Everything is boring because the experimentation is pretty much gone. We've reached the destination and it can be easily store-bought. Since the journey is more important to me at this point, its infinitely cooler (to me) to build up a Tamiya re-release and drive it within its means than to buy an Associated RC10B-whatever-they're-up-to-now that drives pretty much perfectly out of the box. That's just me. For others, especially those that do compete, my interest and concerns are meaningless and that's ok too. There's room for everybody in the hobby. Just don't get upset when you try to drive a square peg into a round hole and the peg breaks. In other words, don't expect your Tamiya re-release to handle crazy brushless power while sending it over modern day jumps and last forever while doing it.

[Grumpy pants]

I wanted to have some of the cool models I wouldn’t have been be able to buy as a kid, but with newer plastics, less design problems and with good spares availability.
 

 

[Krustybus]

7 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Having been professionally in the car world most of my adult life, I can relate to this connection. When I started out, we would dig up decent flowing factory iron cylinder heads, like SBC double humps and then go to work porting them. Aluminum heads were somewhat exotic. Then aluminum heads became prolific. Then the Chinese aluminum heads hit and they became cheap and prolific. The LS engines hit the salvage yards and now anybody with a pulse can make big stupid power. There's no finesse, no experimentation. And its boring. Yes, big power was always the same destination, whether you were pulling it out bit by bit with every trick in the book back in the late 70's/early 80's or taking the quick and easy way out in today's era with boosted LS powerplants. The thing some of us aging folks have since discovered is that the journey was more important than the destination. I daily drive a foxbody 5.0 and nowadays, an average family sedan makes more power...but I don't care. The 5.0 has an infinitely higher "cool factor", nebulous as that may be.

The same goes for RC in my case. Everything is boring because the experimentation is pretty much gone. We've reached the destination and it can be easily store-bought. Since the journey is more important to me at this point, its infinitely cooler (to me) to build up a Tamiya re-release and drive it within its means than to buy an Associated RC10B-whatever-they're-up-to-now that drives pretty much perfectly out of the box. That's just me. For others, especially those that do compete, my interest and concerns are meaningless and that's ok too. There's room for everybody in the hobby. Just don't get upset when you try to drive a square peg into a round hole and the peg breaks. In other words, don't expect your Tamiya re-release to handle crazy brushless power while sending it over modern day jumps and last forever while doing it.

Nicely put  

See also ECU tuning, definitely a big thing over here in the UK. 

Like you say, the journey is more important than the destination and seeing people messing about with re-re Tamiya's is far more interesting than watching those that just ram a LiPo & a brushless motor in some hooligan RTR car and send it off every ramp in the skate park. Guess it's my age  

[Problemchild]

21 hours ago, Mrowka said:

I'd consider modern buggies if they didn't look like they were designed by bros to appeal to WWE enthusiasts.

Shallow, but that's my reasoning.

Bros = the 1980s boy band with Matt and Luke Goss?

JJ

[Problemchild]

5 hours ago, Krustybus said:

Nicely put  

See also ECU tuning, definitely a big thing over here in the UK. 

Like you say, the journey is more important than the destination and seeing people messing about with re-re Tamiya's is far more interesting than watching those that just ram a LiPo & a brushless motor in some hooligan RTR car and send it off every ramp in the skate park. Guess it's my age  

thats such an old view of tuning

if in the old days you were given an opportunity to lighten the block and double the power then of course you would take it.

ECU tuning is more of an art than balancing a carb.

tuning and balancing compressor blades is also an art.

cam profiles, porting and flowing cars is still a thing with turbo cars.

in the RC world putting in a brushless and a LiPo is no different than in the 80s when it was still put a new motor in and up the battery

setting up a car of any sort is the journey

even better when you can combine the 2 hobbies 

 

JJ

[Krustybus]

29 minutes ago, Problemchild said:

thats such an old view of tuning

if in the old days you were given an opportunity to lighten the block and double the power then of course you would take it.

ECU tuning is more of an art than balancing a carb.

tuning and balancing compressor blades is also an art.

cam profiles, porting and flowing cars is still a thing with turbo cars.

in the RC world putting in a brushless and a LiPo is no different than in the 80s when it was still put a new motor in and up the battery

setting up a car of any sort is the journey

even better when you can combine the 2 hobbies 

 

JJ

I was thinking more of slapping a generic re-map on your TDI type of tuning and calling it done  I have an Octavia VRS which, when I get my a$$ in gear will receive a hefty kick up the exhaust pipe thanks to a remap  but it's the family car so won't go too wild with it. 

I've dabbled with many an old Golf GTI in the past, struggling for all those marginal gains on a NA engine (flowed head, 2 litre block, lightened & balanced etc..). Could never make it as quick as the VRS and certainly not get such big gains as easily but boy it was fun trying to make it quicker! 

Anyway, I digress, I guess what I like about the whole Tamiya re-re thing is that it's kind of a parallel to that old-skool mentality mentioned above (but on a scale level), an opportunity to get my hands on those kits I couldn't afford as a kid and also be able to tinker with cars as I'm not allowed a real car project (no space/time/funds) 

I like what you've done with the Smart by the way

[jlcox7]

Good post- for me, I enjoy and prefer the classic Tamiya experiences of building these kits- through the super detailed instructions books, to painstakingly cutting the bodies, smoothing the dges, putting the tires together ( the smell of these takes me back) and getting to look at and admire the finished little vehicle. I am not looking for hi-performance out of these kits - I am getting enjoyment of the experience of building, running and repairing them, very casually - not trying to break speed records or show everyone how much better my car is than theirs. In a word, Fun is why I get the re-releases , and just enjoy them. Hope everyone has a great day!

[Problemchild]

@Krustybus

agreed - it’s what I preach on my smart forum and should be the same here.... putting a massive power hike into the chassis isn’t the only step. 
 

do map your TDI but make sure the brakes and suspension are up to it

 

likewise, do but a brushless into your wild one RERE but upgrade suspension and gearbox internals.

my TT02b is almost undriveable but hey - the chassis isn’t designed for brushless 3S 

JJ

[Krustybus]

16 minutes ago, Problemchild said:

@Krustybus

agreed - it’s what I preach on my smart forum and should be the same here.... putting a massive power hike into the chassis isn’t the only step. 
 

do map your TDI but make sure the brakes and suspension are up to it

 

likewise, do but a brushless into your wild one RERE but upgrade suspension and gearbox internals.

my TT02b is almost undriveable but hey - the chassis isn’t designed for brushless 3S 

JJ

A Grasshopper is barely driveable with a Torque Tuned, never mind anything else  

[Problemchild]

1 hour ago, Krustybus said:

A Grasshopper is barely driveable with a Torque Tuned, never mind anything else  

Hahahahaha - that’s why I have a 380 in mine

 

JJ

[metalheadDad]

I'll caveat my response with this:
1. I'm new to the hobby
2. I'm 44 yrs old and lusted after Tamiya kits from when I was a kid going to the Hobby stores in the states - where I happened to be into competitive slot cars, but I was never able to buy an RC Kit
3. My two kids (7 and 5) wanted RC Cars and once they got one a few months back - they wanted me to drive with them - so I decided it was time to use them as an excuse
4. I have NOT driven any modern RC Cars

ok with that out of the way - I'll simply state I expect out of a re-re: SOUL.

I love to research things to no-end. All of my hobbies (road cycling, video games, guitars etc) I've researched endlessly. And I come to a similar conclusion much of the time - there are amazing modern representations of everything that will always 'perform' better - but I tend to gravitate to something that has 'Soul' - spirit, heart, passion. Something that makes me go .. this is unique and it elicits passion from me.

When I researched the modern RC Cars, I felt zero soul in any of it. I'm not discounting any of the tech or performance mind you. I'm just saying they all looked like appliances to me and nothing more. I could barely tell one from another and there was nothing special about going into one of the newer hobby stores and seeing boxes of RTR cars with crazy graphics that got my juices going. So that was a red flag to me.

When I realized I could actually still find honest-to-god Tamiya kits at a LHS my mind was blown. Literally my heart felt like I was 12 again and I was immediately drawn in by passion (not just mine, but the passion that TAMIYA Puts INTO the designs and kits) and the challenge of building something and getting to know it. 

Driving my Hornet for the first time is what I expected I think - its super fun, its a little hard to control, it is not going to win a race against my neighbors Red Cat brushless whatever it is - but I'm having fun! And he is just going back and forth.

I can relate this to my road cycling hobby too: Modern carbon bikes will outperform classic and even 'modern' steel bikes hands down. But they lack feel, they lack soul and they are the same thing every other rider has on the trail (i.e. think trek, specialized etc). Zero character. A lot of good riders I hang with actually search out classic steel bikes to ride and have in their stable for the ingenuity that was put into it back in the day and the ART/CRAFTMANSHIP put into it which gives it soul  

I feel Tamiya fits into this same category. No need to debate the merits of whether a re-re Hotshot is going to keep up with some new HPI gear. Doesn't matter to me, the Hotshot has the character and something special. And by the way.. yeah its heavily Nostalgia focused for me at 44years old - but guess what: Now my two young kids are being exposed to it and seeing kits being built and that torch will be passed down and there is a chance their generation will feel the same passion for this style of RCs that I did

 

[XJman]

10 hours ago, Problemchild said:

thats such an old view of tuning

if in the old days you were given an opportunity to lighten the block and double the power then of course you would take it.

ECU tuning is more of an art than balancing a carb.

tuning and balancing compressor blades is also an art.

cam profiles, porting and flowing cars is still a thing with turbo cars.

in the RC world putting in a brushless and a LiPo is no different than in the 80s when it was still put a new motor in and up the battery

setting up a car of any sort is the journey

even better when you can combine the 2 hobbies 

 

JJ

What on this beautiful earth is that car? I'm not familiar with much outside of good ol murrica. I'm a giant of a man at 6'5 and 300ish lbs and I love compact cars. Both for the comedic value of me in it, and the go-kart like driving.

I've had my share of performance vehicles from the wrx, to a BMW 550i and nothing on earth compares to turning the wheel on a super short wheelbase car and flinging around a corner like a mad person. I'm still after my dream car though. Lancia delta evo2. Wasn't group b, but it had that kind of impression on me.

 

[Problemchild]

@XJman it’s a smart car 

2006 smart ForFour (4 seater) Brabus 

1.5 turbo running 177bhp stock weighing just over 1000kg

mine is running close to 220bhp on bilstein coilovers, wilwood big brake kit, full stainless exhaust with sports cat, racing paddle clutch and lightened flywheel etc etc etc etc 

JJ

[XJman]

Makes me sad they were not available to the US.

[mtbkym01]

13 hours ago, metalheadDad said:

I'll caveat my response with this:
1. I'm new to the hobby
2. I'm 44 yrs old and lusted after Tamiya kits from when I was a kid going to the Hobby stores in the states - where I happened to be into competitive slot cars, but I was never able to buy an RC Kit
3. My two kids (7 and 5) wanted RC Cars and once they got one a few months back - they wanted me to drive with them - so I decided it was time to use them as an excuse
4. I have NOT driven any modern RC Cars

ok with that out of the way - I'll simply state I expect out of a re-re: SOUL.

I love to research things to no-end. All of my hobbies (road cycling, video games, guitars etc) I've researched endlessly. And I come to a similar conclusion much of the time - there are amazing modern representations of everything that will always 'perform' better - but I tend to gravitate to something that has 'Soul' - spirit, heart, passion. Something that makes me go .. this is unique and it elicits passion from me.

When I researched the modern RC Cars, I felt zero soul in any of it. I'm not discounting any of the tech or performance mind you. I'm just saying they all looked like appliances to me and nothing more. I could barely tell one from another and there was nothing special about going into one of the newer hobby stores and seeing boxes of RTR cars with crazy graphics that got my juices going. So that was a red flag to me.

When I realized I could actually still find honest-to-god Tamiya kits at a LHS my mind was blown. Literally my heart felt like I was 12 again and I was immediately drawn in by passion (not just mine, but the passion that TAMIYA Puts INTO the designs and kits) and the challenge of building something and getting to know it. 

Driving my Hornet for the first time is what I expected I think - its super fun, its a little hard to control, it is not going to win a race against my neighbors Red Cat brushless whatever it is - but I'm having fun! And he is just going back and forth.

I can relate this to my road cycling hobby too: Modern carbon bikes will outperform classic and even 'modern' steel bikes hands down. But they lack feel, they lack soul and they are the same thing every other rider has on the trail (i.e. think trek, specialized etc). Zero character. A lot of good riders I hang with actually search out classic steel bikes to ride and have in their stable for the ingenuity that was put into it back in the day and the ART/CRAFTMANSHIP put into it which gives it soul  

I feel Tamiya fits into this same category. No need to debate the merits of whether a re-re Hotshot is going to keep up with some new HPI gear. Doesn't matter to me, the Hotshot has the character and something special. And by the way.. yeah its heavily Nostalgia focused for me at 44years old - but guess what: Now my two young kids are being exposed to it and seeing kits being built and that torch will be passed down and there is a chance their generation will feel the same passion for this style of RCs that I did

 

You had me at “soul”.

Its the same with my 1/1 “toy” car, with its hand assembled supercharged V8, over the other Australian brand that had a crate LS power plant in it. I feel my car has soul and character, and is a perfect tribute to the good old Aussie Muscle Car 

[Falcon#5]

23 hours ago, Problemchild said:

Bros = the 1980s boy band with Matt and Luke Goss?

JJ

Oh, what a difference a missing apostrophe can make!

2 hours ago, mtbkym01 said:

You had me at “soul”.

Its the same with my 1/1 “toy” car, with its hand assembled supercharged V8, over the other Australian brand that had a crate LS power plant in it. I feel my car has soul and character, and is a perfect tribute to the good old Aussie Muscle Car 

And here I was thinking you were still rocking around in your old 90's Rodeo.

FG GT??

[Aleblanc]

i was never into RC cars growing up and to me the re-releases are quite enjoyable as they have that old school engineering and quirkiness to them.

Clearly the newly engineered products will outperform that buts not the re-re's intended purpose.

Nostalgia or even having a product bring you back to a different time is fun.