M-chassis confusion

[berman 5315]

9 hours ago, DeadMeat666 said:

Well, if you notice the axles, they seem to be compatible with a range of chassis types, so using deductive reasoning, if item 1 (axles) are compatible with M chassis and others, and item 2 (cross joints) is universal, theoretically including some of the chassis types that item 1 is compatible with, then item 1 must be compatible with item 2.

Does that make sense?

The reason for ordering these is 2-fold:

1. I want aluminum CVD shafts for the M02 (they will be in the back, so not that much shock resistance needed)

2. I can't find a full set for the M01/M02

Oh I hope they work, I just don't want to be the guy that tells you to go for it, and it fails miserably 😬

 

[DeadMeat666 1675]

15 hours ago, berman said:

Oh I hope they work, I just don't want to be the guy that tells you to go for it, and it fails miserably 😬

 

In all cases I've put in the order, so in a 2-3 weeks when it all arrives, I'll see if it fits and let everyone know 

 

PS: no hard feelings if it doesn't work, I always find other uses for the random bits I have lol.

[berman 5315]

11 hours ago, DeadMeat666 said:

In all cases I've put in the order, so in a 2-3 weeks when it all arrives, I'll see if it fits and let everyone know 

 

PS: no hard feelings if it doesn't work, I always find other uses for the random bits I have lol.

Well I hope so. I had a look at my usual sources for the factory universals and no luck. ☹

Just been tinkering with some of the cars the past couple of days, missus is well pleased that the dining room table is covered in 7 RC cars again like when before we had kids 🙄😄

Fitted the fluoride coated pinion to the M08, one thing I love about the M08 is you don't have to remove the motor to replace the pinion.

Removed the dirty old S148 out of the M06 and the S3003 out of the M05, and replaced them both with the Savox S0352, much better transit speed! 

I got the M02 all hooked up and gave it a quick run in the lounge, it has a S148 servo (came with it) but both of my Racing Steering Sets on my M01/2 are tight with those nylon sleeves, so the servo isn't powerful enough to turn it.

The whole M02 need a proper rebuild, I noticed when replacing the freewheel axles, the bearings have had the shields removed on the inside, and although they aren't that gritty, there is grease and that fine layer of oily dust everywhere from something that's been sitting a long time, so new bearings, and a thorough clean and another go through are in order.

I finally got to see what the TA03 ball diff was like, going to order Tamiyas Tungsten carbide balls and some new thrust washers (ball plates). I would like to get new gears for it, but they are getting a bit hard to find.

The "idea" for me, is to have all 8 marques, all with one of the correct available Tamiya bodies for each chassis, and with the correct Tamiya hop ups (not necessarily all) that were available, with the exception of servos and receiver.

Really enjoying this new (or not so new) M chassis addiction! Everything else RC is taking a back seat at the moment, apart from selling off some other rc stuff I've collected that I no longer have interest in. 

[DeadMeat666 1675]

Here's where I am so far with my M08. A smattering of hopups here and there, but not maxxed out by any means. I'm really liking the build quality compared to what I've built so far. I'm not completely sold on the steering assembly. Even with the aluminum steering arms, I'm seeing a little slop, and the servo arm angle is awkward. I will wait to try it out before passing judgement.

Next up are the shocks and the body. The electrics are still in the post, with the exception of the servo which I've installed.

[Carmine A 2046]

@DeadMeat666 Shouldn't you lengthen that Steering Draglink? I haven't seen the M08 Manual yet... But typically, the Servo Arm and Steering Arm should be at the same angle. That prevents any binding in steering, one direction or the other. 😊

[berman 5315]

A lot of the M08 guys turn the servo around, get a longer servo saver (M04 is one, I think they use a kimbrough one as well) and connect it directly to the draglink, ommiting that funky arm all together. 

Mine has a lot (actually all) of play in the factory steering arms where the ball bearing sit, really sloppy design.

[DeadMeat666 1675]

3 hours ago, Carmine A said:

@DeadMeat666 Shouldn't you lengthen that Steering Draglink? I haven't seen the M08 Manual yet... But typically, the Servo Arm and Steering Arm should be at the same angle. That prevents any binding in steering, one direction or the other. 😊

I set it up exactly as per the manual, except that I used a solid servo horn instead of a servo saver. Look:

 

[Raman36 1656]

3 hours ago, berman said:

A lot of the M08 guys turn the servo around, get a longer servo saver (M04 is one, I think they use a kimbrough one as well) and connect it directly to the draglink, ommiting that funky arm all together. 

Mine has a lot (actually all) of play in the factory steering arms where the ball bearing sit, really sloppy design.

Yep.. they really need to address the steering. The aluminium arms have poor tolerance. I mean what’s the point of an upgrade when you need to shim it from every angle to get rid of the slop. 

[Carmine A 2046]

1 hour ago, DeadMeat666 said:

I set it up exactly as per the manual, except that I used a solid servo horn instead of a servo saver. Look:

That's exactly what I meant. Notice on the Page, it's using a WIDER Servo Saver, with the Ball in the far left hole...

BOTH Arms in the Manual are still perpendicular to each other... Yours are acute, which will give you uneven Steering from right to left. 

Since you're using a solid Servo Arm (BTW I'm a big fan of), you need to increase the length of that Draglink (Steering Rod), to compensate for the different Center position of the Ball End. 

The LAST thing I want to do is be a pain.... 😖  But you're doing such a thorough job of getting everything right, I just noticed that one thing, and thought I should bring it to your attention. 😊  I would hope someone would do the same for me!

[DeadMeat666 1675]

37 minutes ago, Carmine A said:

That's exactly what I meant. Notice on the Page, it's using a WIDER Servo Saver, with the Ball in the far left hole...

BOTH Arms in the Manual are still perpendicular to each other... Yours are acute, which will give you uneven Steering from right to left. 

Since you're using a solid Servo Arm (BTW I'm a big fan of), you need to increase the length of that Draglink (Steering Rod), to compensate for the different Center position of the Ball End. 

The LAST thing I want to do is be a pain.... 😖  But you're doing such a thorough job of getting everything right, I just noticed that one thing, and thought I should bring it to your attention. 😊  I would hope someone would do the same for me!

@Carmine A You're not being a pain at all, in fact I thank you for your input.

However, allow me to respectfully disagree. If you look at the manual picture with the wide servo saver on it, the ball end is on the far left hole as you said. Now, if you imagine cutting off the other two holes on the saver, you will end up with a servo saver that has about the same shape as angle as my solid servo horn. I laid them on top of each other before I installed my servo horn in this position. Now perhaps the way the manual suggests is wrong, but the way I've done it is as close to the manual as possible, flaws and all 

I will go ahead and try this setup when everything is done, and if it does indeed bind, I will definitely try your idea of keeping the arm parallel to see if there's an improvement.

Again thanks for the feedback!

[ruebiracer 1046]

44 minutes ago, DeadMeat666 said:

@Carmine A You're not being a pain at all, in fact I thank you for your input.

However, allow me to respectfully disagree. If you look at the manual picture with the wide servo saver on it, the ball end is on the far left hole as you said. Now, if you imagine cutting off the other two holes on the saver, you will end up with a servo saver that has about the same shape as angle as my solid servo horn. I laid them on top of each other before I installed my servo horn in this position. Now perhaps the way the manual suggests is wrong, but the way I've done it is as close to the manual as possible, flaws and all 

I will go ahead and try this setup when everything is done, and if it does indeed bind, I will definitely try your idea of keeping the arm parallel to see if there's an improvement.

Again thanks for the feedback!

Everything is assembled correctly!

Carmine is right in theory, but what you see of the lever arm, isn´t really the lever arm. But when you look, where the steering bearing sits, you can think yourself the "real" lever arm, which is quite parallel to the servo horn. It´s a weird design for the eye. But when you have the parts in front of you, it´s getting clear...

For myself I skipped the aluminum steering and shimmed the kit steering slightly. Works perfect now. Most of the play comes indeed from the knuckle to C-Hub tolerances (bushings)....

As I knew from Raman, that the Aluminum steering has even worse tolerances, I didn´t see the need to buy it, just for the bling...

[berman 5315]

3 hours ago, Raman36 said:

Yep.. they really need to address the steering. The aluminium arms have poor tolerance. I mean what’s the point of an upgrade when you need to shim it from every angle to get rid of the slop. 

I thought the plastic parts were bad. Won't bother with the Alu parts if they aren't any better...

Cheap servo, but at least it has no play...

https://imgur.com/a/OFzKmla

[DeadMeat666 1675]

13 minutes ago, berman said:

I thought the plastic parts were bad. Won't bother with the Alu parts if they aren't any better...

Wish I knew THAT earlier 😂

[Carmine A 2046]

4 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

Everything is assembled correctly!

Carmine is right in theory, but what you see of the lever arm, isn´t really the lever arm. But when you look, where the steering bearing sits, you can think yourself the "real" lever arm, which is quite parallel to the servo horn. It´s a weird design for the eye. But when you have the parts in front of you, it´s getting clear...

For myself I skipped the aluminum steering and shimmed the kit steering slightly. Works perfect now. Most of the play comes indeed from the knuckle to C-Hub tolerances (bushings)....

As I knew from Raman, that the Aluminum steering has even worse tolerances, I didn´t see the need to buy it, just for the bling...

I must agree 100%. From what I saw, it LOOKED wrong... But then, never seeing a M07 or M08 in person, I admit I wasn't sure what I was looking at! 

Sometimes (a LOT) I'm very OCD about symmetry. Most of the time, that works... If the M07 has the same Steering, I'm going to have to FIGHT that urge!! 😜 

.... And is the plastic really better than the Aluminum?? That's something ELSE that's counterintuitive that I'll have to learn.

[Carmine A 2046]

2 hours ago, berman said:

I thought the plastic parts were bad. Won't bother with the Alu parts if they aren't any better...

Cheap servo, but at least it has no play...

https://imgur.com/a/OFzKmla

Fortunately, I chose a similar Servo on my M05. Typical OVERKILL at 25kg (!!!), but I've trusted Power HD Servos for years on my Crawlers - which take a LOT more of a beating, with more weight, and NO Servo Savers ever...

25kg was just the "lightest" one on hand!! 😳 Makes End Point Adjustments CRITICAL, but very doable in a small Car.  

... I now wonder if the Yeah Racing Steering Rack would be tighter than Tamiya's. Works GREAT on my M05.

[ruebiracer 1046]

1 hour ago, Carmine A said:

I must agree 100%. From what I saw, it LOOKED wrong... But then, never seeing a M07 or M08 in person, I admit I wasn't sure what I was looking at! 

Sometimes (a LOT) I'm very OCD about symmetry. Most of the time, that works... If the M07 has the same Steering, I'm going to have to FIGHT that urge!! 😜 

.... And is the plastic really better than the Aluminum?? That's something ELSE that's counterintuitive that I'll have to learn.

Lets say, the plastic is better tolerated for the bearings and can be shimmed nicely. For the Alu arms Raman did  a tutorial how to shim it in RC tech, but it´s a little more work.

Don´t worry about the M07 steering: The std. one is perfect out of the box. 

[Carmine A 2046]

52 minutes ago, ruebiracer said:

Lets say, the plastic is better tolerated for the bearings and can be shimmed nicely. For the Alu arms Raman did  a tutorial how to shim it in RC tech, but it´s a little more work.

Don´t worry about the M07 steering: The std. one is perfect out of the box. 

I'll have to look into that Raman post... Even though I say I'm not ready for a RWD M Chassis yet.... Women aren't the ONLY ones who can change their minds!! 😜😂

Still waiting for a M07. It'll happen.

[berman 5315]

9 hours ago, DeadMeat666 said:

Wish I knew THAT earlier 😂

Yeah well I was going with the thought that the "Alu steering must be better" after seeing the play in the plastic parts, and certainly would have bought them if it wasn't for Raman and Rubi saying differently.

7 hours ago, Carmine A said:

Fortunately, I chose a similar Servo on my M05. Typical OVERKILL at 25kg (!!!), but I've trusted Power HD Servos for years on my Crawlers - which take a LOT more of a beating, with more weight, and NO Servo Savers ever...

25kg was just the "lightest" one on hand!! 😳 Makes End Point Adjustments CRITICAL, but very doable in a small Car.  

... I now wonder if the Yeah Racing Steering Rack would be tighter than Tamiya's. Works GREAT on my M05.

That servo I installed isn't really suitable. The torque is fine at about 7kg, but the speed is a paltry 16/60° it won't be fast enough to catch if the M08 wants to switch ends. I will probably get a SC1251 black edition, and use the Blue bird in something slower. 

[DeadMeat666 1675]

Apologies in advance if this is turning into a sort of build thread, but since it provides some info on the M08, I figured here is a good spot for the following:

 

I built up and installed the "TRF Flourine Coated" Tamiya shock set today, and I also added 5mm clamping hexes. Review after a couple of pics...

 

As for these shocks so far after the build (but before any real-world testing):

The Good:
Very smooth action, with white delrin pistons, spacers, and guides, in addition to the flourine coated shock bodies of course. Assembly was a snap, with the bottom ballcups all stopping at precisely 10.6mm of the shock exposed at full extension. They are a perfect fit lenghthwise from ballend to ballend for the M08 TRF carbon shock towers. Very nicely made polished aluminum spring retainers.

The Bad:
The spring tensioner (black ring on the shock body) is plastic, and is VERY easy to adjust up and down the threads of the shock, causing me to believe that the shocks won't hold a particular spring setting after a few runs, and will require frequent readjustment. I'll have to see how they do once I run the car. The top and bottom shock caps are aluminum and flourine coated, and smooth with no ridges(!), which means I had a very hard time tightening them up, and I honestly have no idea whether they're fully tightened down or not, they are just too slippery. The bottom ball cups are ovoid (not completely round), meaning even when mounted on flourine coated ball ends, are quite stiff, which adds resistence to the up-down movement of the suspension assembly. I might replace them down the line with ball ends that are of similar size that have more circular openings to alleviate this, but I've just left them on for now.

Prerun Verdict:
I'd think twice before getting these shocks, given they're about the same price as TRF Black Coated shocks, which have knurled shock caps (for better finger grip when tightening) and better-formed bottom ball cups that are free moving on the ball ends, AND titanium-coated shafts, AND aluminum spring tensioners with built in orings (as I have recently installed on my M07 seen here):

[Carmine A 2046]

2 hours ago, berman said:

.....That servo I installed isn't really suitable. The torque is fine at about 7kg, but the speed is a paltry 16/60° it won't be fast enough to catch if the M08 wants to switch ends. I will probably get a SC1251 black edition, and use the Blue bird in something slower. 

If you can get Power HD by you, their outstanding value for money! .09/90, and they make "High Speed" Models in the 9-15kg range that are even FASTER!! 

@DeadMeat666 So, the TRF Black are the better value, or just easier to live with?  Someday I won't be using Yeah Racing Aluminum Shocks because I HAVE to... I'd love to try a set of TRFs...

[DeadMeat666 1675]

10 minutes ago, Carmine A said:

 

@DeadMeat666 So, the TRF Black are the better value, or just easier to live with?  Someday I won't be using Yeah Racing Aluminum Shocks because I HAVE to... I'd love to try a set of TRFs...

If I could go back and get 'nice' shocks for my M08, I'd have chosen the TRF 55mm Special Damper Set (Hard Black) 42102, instead of these TRF 55mm Damper Set (Flourine Coated) 53571, for sure. Their prices are about even, and the Hard Black set just seem better thought-out. 

Again, I'm not sure about real-world performance yet, as I haven't tried them both back to back, which is why I'm not changing them out before I give them a chance.

[berman 5315]

6 hours ago, Carmine A said:

If you can get Power HD by you, their outstanding value for money! .09/90, and they make "High Speed" Models in the 9-15kg range that are even FASTER!! 

@DeadMeat666

Yeah I asked @Re-Bugged and have been thinking about using the same R12 servo he has in his, which would cost me $80nzd plus freight from over the hill, but my LHS has a SC1251 black edition in stock for $100, and would probably sharpen the price a little, which would make them pennies difference.

5 hours ago, DeadMeat666 said:

If I could go back and get 'nice' shocks for my M08, I'd have chosen the TRF 55mm Special Damper Set (Hard Black) 42102, instead of these TRF 55mm Damper Set (Flourine Coated) 53571, for sure. Their prices are about even, and the Hard Black set just seem better thought-out. 

Again, I'm not sure about real-world performance yet, as I haven't tried them both back to back, which is why I'm not changing them out before I give them a chance.

Sorry to hear you are not happy with them. Hopefully with the spring tension they don't loosen off 😬 I plan on fitting all my m-chassis with shock upgrades, so may take note of maybe not buying these based on your experience, will be interesting to hear once you've run it. I might go with the same ones I got for the M08, for the M07 due to my LHS getting two sets in. 

Then I only have M04, M03, and M01 left to buy shocks for...

[Carmine A 2046]

24 minutes ago, berman said:

Yeah I asked @Re-Bugged and have been thinking about using the same R12 servo he has in his, which would cost me $80nzd plus freight from over the hill, but my LHS has a SC1251 black edition in stock for $100, and would probably sharpen the price a little, which would make them pennies difference.

Sorry to hear you are not happy with them. Hopefully with the spring tension they don't loosen off 😬 I plan on fitting all my m-chassis with shock upgrades, so may take note of maybe not buying these based on your experience, will be interesting to hear once you've run it. I might go with the same ones I got for the M08, for the M07 due to my LHS getting two sets in. 

Then I only have M04, M03, and M01 left to buy shocks for...

WOW.... What they put you poor Aussies and Kiwis through with PRICING!! 😡😞 

One would THINK that in our modern World with the bulk Shipping we have - that they could give you any kind of BREAK!!!  OR... Maybe it's time for some more Domestic Production down under! 😁  I still don't think it's fair though. 

And - I've had nothing but good results with Yeah Racing Aluminum Shocks... AFTER replacing the O-Rings with either Tamiya or Team Associated O-Rings. Good value for money.

[berman 5315]

3 hours ago, Carmine A said:

WOW.... What they put you poor Aussies and Kiwis through with PRICING!! 😡😞 

One would THINK that in our modern World with the bulk Shipping we have - that they could give you any kind of BREAK!!!  OR... Maybe it's time for some more Domestic Production down under! 😁  I still don't think it's fair though. 

And - I've had nothing but good results with Yeah Racing Aluminum Shocks... AFTER replacing the O-Rings with either Tamiya or Team Associated O-Rings. Good value for money.

The Savox is $63.99 on Amain, and the exchange rate is $67usd to $100nzd?  And approx $48usd (83nzd) for the R12, so I am not sure what you are getting at? 

 

 

[Re-Bugged 10147]

4 hours ago, berman said:

Yeah I asked @Re-Bugged and have been thinking about using the same R12 servo he has in his, which would cost me $80nzd plus freight from over the hill, but my LHS has a SC1251 black edition in stock for $100, and would probably sharpen the price a little, which would make them pennies difference.

It is was virtually swings and roundabouts between the 2 servos for me too. The Power HD was free delivery and from a seller I’d used before that swung it in the end. 
The wire is a bit on the short side, but with the receiver mounted over the battery instead of on the side is fine for my use.