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ThunderDragonCy

TB-03 ball diff setup

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I have picked up a lovely TB03 from a fellow member, which has ball diffs. Now i don't have good history with ball diffs, but these have been built and raced by the previous owner. Can someone tell how tight i should do them? Is it all the way in then 1/4 turn back like a buggy? I have done this on the rear and its much stiffer diff action and less smooth than the front (which is as the car arrived to me). Is there a way of running the front diff stiffer than the rear without slipping or wrecking them? I am willing to give them a go, but need some advice. 

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1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

I have picked up a lovely TB03 from a fellow member, which has ball diffs. Now i don't have good history with ball diffs, but these have been built and raced by the previous owner. Can someone tell how tight i should do them? Is it all the way in then 1/4 turn back like a buggy? I have done this on the rear and its much stiffer diff action and less smooth than the front (which is as the car arrived to me). Is there a way of running the front diff stiffer than the rear without slipping or wrecking them? I am willing to give them a go, but need some advice. 

I run my TB03 with Tamiya - 54424 blocks in the front diff. This gives a very light spool with the plastic diff outdrives. And it can slip on hard use or crash. Rear diff just loosen up a bit, diff Action can be light. Or just swap the front to the rear and rebuilt the rear.;)

Of course you can overhaul them and built per manual. Never had a problem with them on motors like Sport tuned, Cup Machine or 17,5t brushless. But spool is the recipe for 4WD Touring cars nowadays...

 

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9 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

I run my TB03 with Tamiya - 54424 blocks in the front diff. This gives a very light spool with the plastic diff outdrives. And it can slip on hard use or crash. Rear diff just loosen up a bit, diff Action can be light. Or just swap the front to the rear and rebuilt the rear.;)

Of course you can overhaul them and built per manual. Never had a problem with them on motors like Sport tuned, Cup Machine or 17,5t brushless. But spool is the recipe for 4WD Touring cars nowadays...

 

Thanks for the info. I had no idea about those blocks. I am running 17.5t blinky so that should be fine. Although spool is popular in the touring cars these days i am not sure it's good for me. Everytime i felt like i was vaguely on top of the TA06 would be wjen the front diff action had softened a bit through use (i had 2 mill oil in a gear diff). When it was really stiff it oversteers off throttle really badly, which for a novice racer like me makes the car really nervous. I am aure if you a master sticksman keeping the throttle pinned most of the time it's great because it is stable on throttle, but i was thinking i would try keeping some diff action at the front with this car in the hope of making it more enjoyable to drive. (note i said enjoyable, not fast!) 

That said, those blocks are pretty cheap relative to new diffs! 

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9 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Thanks for the info. I had no idea about those blocks. I am running 17.5t blinky so that should be fine. Although spool is popular in the touring cars these days i am not sure it's good for me. Everytime i felt like i was vaguely on top of the TA06 would be wjen the front diff action had softened a bit through use (i had 2 mill oil in a gear diff). When it was really stiff it oversteers off throttle really badly, which for a novice racer like me makes the car really nervous. I am aure if you a master sticksman keeping the throttle pinned most of the time it's great because it is stable on throttle, but i was thinking i would try keeping some diff action at the front with this car in the hope of making it more enjoyable to drive. (note i said enjoyable, not fast!) 

That said, those blocks are pretty cheap relative to new diffs! 

Usually a stiffer front diff should give you more understeer off power, and making the car more stable. So maybe your setup has another problem. But for sure, it´s also a kind of driving style and what suits the driver best.

Over the years I converted my TB03 R with Exotek parts to evo6 spec. And it´s still the diffs of my TB03 inside, despite the rear being Spec R oil filled gear diff.

I competed this year in our 17,5t /21,5t spec class, and was timewise on par with our fast guys. 4th starting place A-final, could grab the 3rd place in the end against a friend with a new 420. We had so close fights, lots of fun. And me running with an old Subaru type A shell.:D

Lots of fun still in this platform. Probably that´s why you still find the gears in the TB05...

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4 minutes ago, ruebiracer said:

Usually a stiffer front diff should give you more understeer off power, and making the car more stable. So maybe your setup has another problem. But for sure, it´s also a kind of driving style and what suits the driver best.

Over the years I converted my TB03 R with Exotek parts to evo6 spec. And it´s still the diffs of my TB03 inside, despite the rear being Spec R oil filled gear diff.

I competed this year in our 17,5t /21,5t spec class, and was timewise on par with our fast guys. 4th starting place A-final, could grab the 3rd place in the end against a friend with a new 420. We had so close fights, lots of fun. And me running with an old Subaru type A shell.:D

Lots of fun still in this platform. Probably that´s why you still find the gears in the TB05...

Thanks for the info. I know it is strange about the front diff, but it only seems to give me understeer on throttle. 

I think the TA06 has sent me down all sorts of dead ends setup-wise. Plus I'm still learning race tyres a lot. Now I can go and run for hours and practice and develop setup at our outdoor track now I'm trying to resist doing anything to the TB-03 until I've driven it for 15 minutes on track and I know how it runs. From there I can steadily make changes. 

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@TenzoR Thanks for the setup sheets. I am not going to get a chance to run it at the track until next week, but i will share the base setup. I think i am going to start a build thread. 

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I’d like to add me dimes to this thread.

 

as I have a Xray T1FK05 and I was looking to get to todays racing standards, my conclusion was... regarding for example a Team Associated TC6.1. They have a spool in the front and oil gear diff in the back. The T1FK05 has also both ball diffs, lock the front as much as possible and let the rear be locked to 6/8s to get the proper todays car feel.

 

My idea was to lock the front diff and get a Spec-R rear oil diff. Makes the noes more stable

and better turn in to corners.

maybe replacing the rear diff with a oil diff would be the best choice. And get a spool for the front?

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3 hours ago, Fabia130vRS said:

I’d like to add me dimes to this thread.

 

as I have a Xray T1FK05 and I was looking to get to todays racing standards, my conclusion was... regarding for example a Team Associated TC6.1. They have a spool in the front and oil gear diff in the back. The T1FK05 has also both ball diffs, lock the front as much as possible and let the rear be locked to 6/8s to get the proper todays car feel.

 

My idea was to lock the front diff and get a Spec-R rear oil diff. Makes the noes more stable

and better turn in to corners.

maybe replacing the rear diff with a oil diff would be the best choice. And get a spool for the front?

Spool for the front I am with you. Thus my link to the Tamiya pads. By that you can turn the serial ball diff into a slipper spool. It will be locked up to a certain torque, when it can slip. I like that setup for this drivetrain, as the front can slip under high velocity crashes and save the bevel gears. It´s just a fail safe for "DNF" on high grip conditions.

So running it first as getting it is a good start, but I would at least check the gear mesh the previous owner has adjusted. There are special shims in the kit for this purpose. If done properly without binding and not too much play, the drivetrain is very durable, especially running 21,5t to 17,5t classes. (It can stand even more).

 

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19 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

@TenzoR Thanks for the setup sheets. I am not going to get a chance to run it at the track until next week, but i will share the base setup. I think i am going to start a build thread. 

Here's a pretty decent starting setup from TamiyaUSA's Jimmy Wright

If all else fail, the basic setup from the manual will be good. Just make sure you ask around the track and see what tires are most people using, as tire makes all the difference.

Are you using IFS or Stand-up shocks? 

Jimmy Wrights TB03 Set Up 001.jpg

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@TenzoR Thanks for the info. Interesting that Jimmy was running with no sway bars and 2 hole pistons.

I will be running IFS, and i have plenty of options for oil, springs (car came with yellow medium, but i have blue hard and white extra hard available), and it came with medium front, soft rear sway bars, but i have the FF03 and TA06 sets to choose from, plus 4 and 6 deg caster c hub options.

Yeah, i have tyres dialed. Got the recommended for the track (Sorex32), plus a couple of options (some Sorex28 from indoor and Sweep 34 BRCA, control tyre). Really keen to run it and see how it works. Just need my new Deans plugs to hurry up and i can get the electrics soldered up. 

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Glad to see your getting some fun out of it! 😬 even before using it ! :) 

the diffs are virtually new, new diff gears and out drives, as replaced them when building back up. All the bearings, balls and thrust bearing were soaked and oiled before rebuild so should be good for a long while. 

i didn’t go in heavy with the shims as planned to run it little while first then take the covers off and check for play.

so your plan to give it a whirl first sounds good.

i did have spec r diffs in it towards the end before I retired it in favor of the evo 5 where the diffs followed but sadly stripped the crown gear and case as all one part.

the internals and out drives will be fine just need the cases. 

one had 500k oil (more like a gloop) and the other had something like 5k in. 
if you could get the cases for them they would be a great thing to get back in to it and run a bit and then reshim up the drive train to get it nice.

in my opinion you want a smidge of play in them, too much and risk stripping.

iFS is really nice too look at, but I found it (first race car back in the hobby after 20years)  hard to get just right, and favoured the traditional shock tower.  Depends what body you plan to use thou. 

Things seem to of changed since I last raced years ago, Now rubber Tyres and sparse foams, gone are the days of tracktite stinking everything out! 😂

and now run the suspension a lot harder than back in the day. Depending what your racing on you may need to go stiffer than the yellows on it. 
Try tightening the front diff up so less rotation and loosen the rear off till it doesn’t slip and I think that would be a good starting block! 
 

look forward to see how it goes! 👍

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@Mark3gti Thanks for the details. Tightening the front and loosening rear diffs was exactly my thinking. I suspect i will end up with harder springs too, but i have those. Unfortunately i don't seem to be able to find spares for the spec-r diffs which is a real shame. 

Will keep things up to date on the build thread. 

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1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

@Mark3gti Thanks for the details. Tightening the front and loosening rear diffs was exactly my thinking. I suspect i will end up with harder springs too, but i have those. Unfortunately i don't seem to be able to find spares for the spec-r diffs which is a real shame. 

Will keep things up to date on the build thread. 

That´s really sad. I also noticed that the Spec r stuff is becoming very rare. Are they already out of business? Their diffs were great and the first ones for the TB platform, before Tamiya thought about it. They also had steel outdrives as serial. I searched for some Aluminum outdrives in the web, but I think you cannot find any these days.

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2 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

That´s really sad. I also noticed that the Spec r stuff is becoming very rare. Are they already out of business? Their diffs were great and the first ones for the TB platform, before Tamiya thought about it. They also had steel outdrives as serial. I searched for some Aluminum outdrives in the web, but I think you cannot find any these days.


yeah I rated the diffs, wish I’d bought more at the time as they had a few. Sad times! 
maybe even contacting them may yield a diff if they have the bits just not kits made up? 

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3 hours ago, Mark3gti said:

http://www.technicalrp.com/catalog/mobile_product_info.php?products_id=39165
 

appear to have them in stock? 
 

spec r had them not that long ago, which was way I suggested them, but now oos.

 

have a go at getting these maybe? Not expensive either really.. 

 

🤞🤞

36 euro shipping! Thanks for finding though. I'll email Spec R

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@ThunderDragonCy

doh!  If it makes you feel better I think I paid 50euro each on the diffs! 😱

 

I’ll keep looking :) 

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41 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

36 euro shipping! Thanks for finding though. I'll email Spec R

I had the same idea, emailing them. Never received a reply.

I was looking for a Xray T1FK05 or T2 fear diff... on their site out of stock while RCMART had them... now they out of stock too.

probably RCMART helped them sell very good and no left over stocks.

so my FF03 and Xray missed out their gear diffs.

for the FF03 not a big thing... but who else makes those gear diffs for older touring cars?

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You can fit TB04 gear diffs to this, but you can't mix and match with the 03 diffs so it's all or nothing, but it is possible. 

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1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

You can fit TB04 gear diffs to this, but you can't mix and match with the 03 diffs so it's all or nothing, but it is possible. 


I don’t see why not, but I think you may have to trim some of the gearbox casing away, they are quite different in shape. 
 

you could possibly use a tb04 rear diff and a tb04 spool, with tb04 ring gears and bevel gears. 
 

i fitted one to my evo 4 Ms (excuse the leaking, an older pic) but easy on these as just remove the diff gearbox covers.. 

5C5101D7-B986-4F67-AE91-B34278D86A3E.jpeg

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