TB-03 - Project Can I Get a 4WD Touring Car Working For Me?

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

10 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Looks great. And maybe the carbon shock tower when you need a new body? TC bodies are pretty much consumables right? Or is that just me...

What about a fan instead of the heatsink? I tried heatsinks but couldn't get the gearing I needed to keep up, a fan allowed a few more teeth on the pinion. With the motor mounted like that you should be able to get one of those U shaped mounts that screw to the motor and not have to muck around with double sided tape etc

Ha! No, not just you. If you zoom in on the zooracing body you'll see its extensively patched up. It's probably only still viable because the Spec6 body i got to try and calm down my TA06 bore the brunt of last winters indoor racing. As you say, night be worth a swap when the time comes. 

As for a fan, i ordered a silver heat sink yesterday and the only ones available had fan mounts, so it's an option. The car isn't especially aggressively geared for the motor. According to that gear chart i use as a reference 17.5 blinky is recommended 3.5 FDR, but when i started racing the club recommended around 4.5 for our track. I am running 4.4, and i have the option to go down to 4.2 with the spares i have, but even without a heatsink the motor doesn't run crazy hot, but the gearing seems good. My FF03 is running 4.1 with no trouble without a heatsink (i went taller gearing to try and limit wheelspin), but definitely runs hotter than the TB03. I punched cooling holes in the grill of the shell for yesterday and that really helped the FF03, so it probably could go higher in the TB03, but i am not sure how much faster i would go. The track has a short straight into a flat sweeper, but after that the whole rest of the lap is hairpins, and medium speed corners. It's quite technical with only two more short bursts of full throttle if you are really on point, so punch off the hairpins is important. 

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

6 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Ha! No, not just you. If you zoom in on the zooracing body you'll see its extensively patched up. It's probably only still viable because the Spec6 body i got to try and calm down my TA06 bore the brunt of last winters indoor racing. As you say, night be worth a swap when the time comes. 

As for a fan, i ordered a silver heat sink yesterday and the only ones available had fan mounts, so it's an option. The car isn't especially aggressively geared for the motor. According to that gear chart i use as a reference 17.5 blinky is recommended 3.5 FDR, but when i started racing the club recommended around 4.5 for our track. I am running 4.4, and i have the option to go down to 4.2 with the spares i have, but even without a heatsink the motor doesn't run crazy hot, but the gearing seems good. My FF03 is running 4.1 with no trouble without a heatsink (i went taller gearing to try and limit wheelspin), but definitely runs hotter than the TB03. I punched cooling holes in the grill of the shell for yesterday and that really helped the FF03, so it probably could go higher in the TB03, but i am not sure how much faster i would go. The track has a short straight into a flat sweeper, but after that the whole rest of the lap is hairpins, and medium speed corners. It's quite technical with only two more short bursts of full throttle if you are really on point, so punch off the hairpins is important. 

Oh right, probably no point given the track layout. 

How did you get the FF03 to an FDR of 4.1? Is it the same IR at the FF04? I may have to swap to 64p gears in mine - do you run 48por 64p?

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

11 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Oh right, probably no point given the track layout. 

How did you get the FF03 to an FDR of 4.1? Is it the same IR at the FF04? I may have to swap to 64p gears in mine - do you run 48por 64p?

Remember my FF03 has my 4 gear transmission which i specially designed to run the spur shaft closer to the motor, but i believe the IR is same as the FF04 at 2.6. I always use 48dp to get my touring car gearing. Tamiya just don't make anything close. I run 62t spur and 39t pinion. I guess if you have a source for large 0.6mod pinions you could get close with the Tamiya 63t spur from the TB05, but no one in the uk makes anything bigger than 32t in 0.6mod. We are fortunate that we have RW Racing. They make a huge range of 48dp and 64dp gears. 

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

10 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Remember my FF03 has my 4 gear transmission which i specially designed to run the spur shaft closer to the motor, but i believe the IR is same as the FF04 at 2.6. I always use 48dp to get my touring car gearing. Tamiya just don't make anything close. I run 62t spur and 39t pinion. I guess if you have a source for large 0.6mod pinions you could get close with the Tamiya 63t spur from the TB05, but no one in the uk makes anything bigger than 32t in 0.6mod. We are fortunate that we have RW Racing. They make a huge range of 48dp and 64dp gears. 

Is the 62T spur from RW? The smallest I have found is 63T, shouldn't make much difference but you know. The IR in my TA07 is 1.85 (changed the centre pulley) and even that can be a struggle to get the right FDR since we run 21.5T.

I've ordered the last bits for thr battery holder for the FF04 (TT02 parts fit) so next is to see what gears will fit. Hopefully a big pinion (that i have to buy yet) will fit on it and give me decent top speed.

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

20 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Is the 62T spur from RW? The smallest I have found is 63T, shouldn't make much difference but you know. The IR in my TA07 is 1.85 (changed the centre pulley) and even that can be a struggle to get the right FDR since we run 21.5T.

I've ordered the last bits for thr battery holder for the FF04 (TT02 parts fit) so next is to see what gears will fit. Hopefully a big pinion (that i have to buy yet) will fit on it and give me decent top speed.

Yes the 62 is from RW. Its 48dp. They have 48dp spur gears down to 45t in stock. 

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

32 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Yes the 62 is from RW. Its 48dp. They have 48dp spur gears down to 45t in stock. 

Perfect thanks! Now to work out what I need, put it in my cart and calculate shipping and start all over again.

I found the perfect parts from Exotek today and only $2.95. Shipping was $29.95!

[ruebiracer 1046]

19 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Track day!

I think i have put pretty much every hop up on this apart from the carboj rear tower. I don't want that though, because it changes the body post location to a really wide setting that won't fit anything i own, and the reinforced plastic tower works just fine.

Hey Thunder, now the bad man comes again and says you can have Carbon rear shock tower with the same body posts, using e.g. TB04 Pro 2 rear shock tower:

https://www.modellbau-seidel.de/index.php?firma=Tamiya&best=54524

O.k., you have to use the shorter M-chassis dampers.

But you can even go with Tamiya SSBB Dampers from 419, using these from TB04, that have also still the narrow body mount:

https://www.modellbau-seidel.de/index.php?firma=Tamiya&best=47327

Or using your existing dampers with 3 Racing rear damper stay, probably the best option for your style concept!

1 x TB03-06 Dämpferbrücke Carbon hinten

included here:

https://www.mrs-modellbau.de/rc-flohmarkt/3racing-tamiya-tb03-d-tuning-set.html

But I think you can get it singlewise still somewhere!

On this the rear body mount shares one screw with the damper if mounted in that location. But it´s not a problem, works well.

And congratulations for your project and that you could really make it work for your driving style! Still such a great car with loads of options!

 

Kind regards,

Matthias

 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

@ruebiracer Thanks Matthias. We should rename you The Hop Up Whisperer 😂

You are right, i am quite happy with my 55mm dampers. This outdoor track is very bumpy. I will look out for the 3Racing tower, but as postage will probably make it very expensive i will probably measure my tower and draw up one to get made by fibrelyte if i want one. 

I am glad i got it working. Such a nice car. I am kind of curious how a TB05 stacks up against it. 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

As promised, a nice silver heatsink to finish it off properly. 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

I raced the TB03! Very cold compared to what i have been used to (12 deg overcast) and the Sweep treaded tyres have done a lot of running now, so it was a bit slippery, but it was ace. The car was brilliant, i was pretty consistent, and i wasn't last on merit (4 of 5). All the other guys were running full xray or schumacher stuff with tyre warmers and the lot, so i feel very pleased with that. Was less pleased with how hard i find it to deal with traffic - specifically getting out of the way of front runners without screwing them up or crashing. I guess that just needs some practice. I am so pleased we are still racing outside on the asphalt. Normally we would be inside on carpet by now, but covid means no indoor, so it afternoons outside. No photos i am afraid, but it was great, and one the guys who was marshalling my heat and knows i have been struggling (with the TA06) said i was looking good on track, so very pleased about that too. 

Going to get some softer rubber though. Even though they are pretty shot, i am fairly sure the main issue with my tyres today was the temperature. 

Chuffed! 

[ruebiracer 1046]

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

I raced the TB03! Very cold compared to what i have been used to (12 deg overcast) and the Sweep treaded tyres have done a lot of running now, so it was a bit slippery, but it was ace. The car was brilliant, i was pretty consistent, and i wasn't last on merit (4 of 5). All the other guys were running full xray or schumacher stuff with tyre warmers and the lot, so i feel very pleased with that. Was less pleased with how hard i find it to deal with traffic - specifically getting out of the way of front runners without screwing them up or crashing. I guess that just needs some practice. I am so pleased we are still racing outside on the asphalt. Normally we would be inside on carpet by now, but covid means no indoor, so it afternoons outside. No photos i am afraid, but it was great, and one the guys who was marshalling my heat and knows i have been struggling (with the TA06) said i was looking good on track, so very pleased about that too. 

Going to get some softer rubber though. Even though they are pretty shot, i am fairly sure the main issue with my tyres today was the temperature. 

Chuffed! 

Great news Thunder! So good to hear that the TB03 suits you! 12° is really cold, I agree that will be the main problem for your tires. But nevertheless you did it without tire warmers and expert stuff! And for sure, giving way to faster guys in an elegant and not self destructive way is far more difficult than overtaking a slower guy!

You will get the practice for sure! Keep on racing and congrats to your great day,

Matthias

[mud4fun 1696]

2 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

I raced the TB03! Very cold compared to what i have been used to (12 deg overcast) and the Sweep treaded tyres have done a lot of running now, so it was a bit slippery, but it was ace. The car was brilliant, i was pretty consistent, and i wasn't last on merit (4 of 5). All the other guys were running full xray or schumacher stuff with tyre warmers and the lot, so i feel very pleased with that. Was less pleased with how hard i find it to deal with traffic - specifically getting out of the way of front runners without screwing them up or crashing. I guess that just needs some practice. I am so pleased we are still racing outside on the asphalt. Normally we would be inside on carpet by now, but covid means no indoor, so it afternoons outside. No photos i am afraid, but it was great, and one the guys who was marshalling my heat and knows i have been struggling (with the TA06) said i was looking good on track, so very pleased about that too. 

Going to get some softer rubber though. Even though they are pretty shot, i am fairly sure the main issue with my tyres today was the temperature. 

Chuffed! 

Sounds like you had a great time, made my a tad jealous, just fancy doing some proper racing now too!

Sadly I am way too old to compete, even my kids in their stock 540 silver cans are starting to make me look slow..... my eyes are not what they used to be LOL

 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Well, all the covid restrictions knocked racing on the head about 3 months ago and along with racing went my rc motivation, so the TB03 has just sat in its box for a while. However, seeing as i was tinkering today anyway, i decided to fit what is probably the last hop up i can put on this chassis without going to a carbon chassis. I give you, the high precision bearing holder! 

Basically just stiffer plastic, but the bearing is a really tight fit. I opened up the rear transmission to fit it and pleasingly its completely clean and all teeth looking nice. Given its run a few hours practice and two cold, damp race meetings i am very happy about that. Back in its box until i am allowed to go back to the track. 

 

[Fabia130vRS 2098]

Nice, who produces that spur you are using? Seems thin

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

1 hour ago, Fabia130vRS said:

Nice, who produces that spur you are using? Seems thin

Its RW Racing. Got a few and they are all great

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Some parts for the 03 turned up with my first rcmart order in a while. I have been wanting to try the new TRF damper plastics since i saw them mentioned on thercracer last year. I got the plastics which have regular 5mm and oversized 6mm eyelets, short and long rod end eyelets in both sizes and regular and big bore spring collars. I bought some 6mm TRF balls to try the oversized option

 

Following the instructions i fitted all the grub screws and balls

Dampers definitely needed some love. Tgese have had probably 4 solid hours or track running last year along with assorted street running. Still felt smooth, but dutty! 

Lucky i did too. The oil was FILTHY! And they felt quite slow compared to my 42102 dampers on my FF03 4GR. These Flourine TRF dampers pre-date the modern 3 hole TRF pistons and have 2 larger holes in similar delrin material. As the rears had 400cst oil in i dropped down to 300cst for the rebuild

You can see the new oversized fittings on the left next to originals. 

Unfortunately what you don't find out until you try building them is that the oversized top eyelets only fit big bore shocks. They don't fit through the hole in the top of regular dampers. So, i fitted the new reinforced 5mm tops off the sprue, switch 5mm balls back onto the shock tower, but stuck with 6mm on the bottom. 

The thing that struck me about the 6mm balls is that whilst they are completely slop free, they are very tight. Even a bit sticky. I fitted them to see if they would free up. I did the front dampers too, dropping from 500 to 400 oil and the oversize eyelets on the bottom again. I got it fitted up and tried to set the ride height, but the front actually stuck down. Annoying. So, i re-fitted 5mm balls and new 5mm eyelets on the rod ends too and it's all lovely. The 5mm are slop free too, but are free moving and smooth. Brilliant. I got it set up 6mm ride height front and rear and took it for a run in the street. 

Sunny day, and acrually able to get some heat in the tyres, and it was great! My last race was very frustrating in extremely cold conditions where the car just wouldn't stick to the floor. Seems a bit of warmth and all is well. Keen for some track time again now. Need to wait for lockdown to end though. 

In conclusion though, the 5mm trf fittings are very lovely. The 6mm "superior" ones are confusingly sticky. Hmmm. 

 

 

 

 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Been ignoring the TB03 for a while because I've been racing my TT01E and running my FF01 and FF03. I decided to give it a run out this morning, and it's just so nice. So responsive, so planted. I thought I had my TT01E fairly dialed now, but it's still not as good as this! Wish there was a clubman class I could run in without needing to do full 17.5TC. 

[speedy_w_beans 4272]

I share your appreciation for the TB03.  It's a bright spot in their product evolution along with the TA05V2.

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

1 hour ago, speedy_w_beans said:

I share your appreciation for the TB03.  It's a bright spot in their product evolution along with the TA05V2.

Agreed. I keep wondering about getting a TA05V2 to complete my IFS triology with my FF03

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Since the weather got better there's been all sorts of Tamiya chassis being run in the Iconic class at my club. I've been mostly running a TT01E, but there's been a couple of not-exactly-to-the-rules chassis run recently as the club is fairly relaxed about who runs what so long as it's in the spirit of things. As a result - and with their agreement - the TB03R is getting a run out this weekend. I've installed a £3.50 20t motor from Hobbyking - jokingly known as the hairdryer motor by my clubmates - and a 1060 ESC. 29/68 gearing for 5.72 FDR same as my TT01E. 

Hole cut in my heat sink so the fan will blow air directly into the motor. I'll be running it with the Mondeo BTCC shell I did last winter. I am well excited. I've enjoyed racing my TT01E, but I'm struggling a bit with it as the speeds have increased and I fancy a break from wrestling with it. I've given this a quick run in the street this afternoon and it feels sooooooooooooooooo good. So quiet and smooth and fast. Really looking forward to some more relaxed racing in the Iconic class this weekend. I'll let you know how I go next week. 

[ruebiracer 1046]

This car is so nice Thunder, you willl have fun for sure. Everytime you update your thread, I think about rebuilding my spare TB03R for onroad running with some modern tweaks. Just have not the time at the moment...

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

@ruebiracer Thank you Mattias. I am really excited to run it. After those 2 ok outings last winter when it was 17.5 brushless, I am really excited for this weekend. I have more experience now, the weather is better and the lower performance motor really seems to drop the TB03 into the sweet spot of its performance. Would love to see your TB03R one day. 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Raced! The "pit garage" 

It was really quite warm and even though the 32s ran nice, the 34s had good balance and i went safe with those due to the heat. Before today i dropped the spring rates one notch to blue front yellow rear. It rode the bumps lovely. I fitted the mondeo btcc 2000 shell. 

I ran it in heats 1, 2 and 5 and it was sooooo nice. Despite some pretty clean runs i didn't beat my best time in the TT01, but the hairdryer motor definitely isn't as strong as the Cup motor. Top speed was ok, but the acceleration was a little soft. That did make the car easy to handle though.

 

But MAN it is so nice to drive. Runs arrow straight and has such nice balance. Second heat the rear got a little slidey, so for the 5th i increased the fromt roll bar. Balance was perfect again, but i only discovered once i was racing the stiffer bar could have done with a couple extra points of steering throw, so i understeered off on a hairpin a couple of times. It was unbelievably nice to drive though, so i think i am going to stick a cup motor in it next week and see what it can do. 

 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Raced again! Put the Cup motor in this week so was on the hunt for a better time. 

The other Mondeo is a phenomenally fast club mate who runs a stock TT01E under there. 

It was super hot today but having tried my setup from last week the car wasn't quite there. Went back down to the soft front bar, but ultimately it was tyres. The Contact34s i ran on the front of this and the FF01 last week were cooked. I swapped the rears to the front and it was better, but it was so hot today that the tyres were going off by the end of the heats. First heat was pretty solid with a few mistakes, but the back of the car was really loose so i had to drive to that.

Popped some Sweep32s on the rear for heat 2 and it was much better and i had a great run. Still some mistakes, but a new PB of 14 laps in the 303 seconds. Was only one left out there after the other drivers cara failed or were too frustrating to continue with. 

Ran the FF01 in heat 3, but after a pretty much perfect run I was still a fair bit slower than the TB03 so i went again in heat 4 in the TB03. 

This time there was only Paul and I left and he had his eye in with 15 lap heats. 

I set off after him and was keeping it pretty clean. After the tyres warmed up the rear got a little loose, but mainly i just made too many mistakes. None that needed marshalling, but some minor offs and half spins. So frustrating because the pace was there. New PB of 14 laps in 301 seconds, but just 1 second off that 15 lapper! 

Ordered some Sweep BRCA 34s as if its anything like last week (and it was hotter today) those front Contacts will be toast. 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Any tb03 owners out there in the UK upgraded to reinforced plastics and got spares? I am trying to bitsa build a stock tb03 from my spares/leftovers, but I am short of A6 upper gear cases and plastic suspension block m parts. Anyone got any of this I could buy? Thanks