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Saito2

Wish Tamiya would develop a new mid-level 4wd buggy

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In this day and age, I'm probably dreaming but...Its clear, aside from re-releases, Tamiya has made the DT03 its basic go-to 2wd buggy for the modern age and the TT02B the same for the 4wd range. The DT03 does its job well but I have a feeling the TT02B, not so much. Does anybody else find the TT02B a bit too hamstrung by its touring car roots (low ground clearance) and rear plastic gear issues? DB01, DF03 and re-release buggies and their spare parts can have spotty availability at times. I just wish if Tamiya was going to pump out a 4wd for the masses that it was a bit more capable. Honestly, if they just kept the DF01 in constant production (and make parts available on the level of the TT02B), that might be an improvement. Give it a metal motor mount and the all-plastic gearset out of the box and it would be ready to go. 

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I agree with you 100%.  I'd love to build a new 4wd Tamiya buggy, and do like the DF-01's but I'd like to be able to get car + parts easily from my LHS.  I don't know what it is at the moment, but all the Tamiya kits I want right now are either long discontinued/unavailable, only available from China/Japan, or have never been ReRe'd...  Come on Tamiya, get with the program! 

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I'd love to see a Top Force 2! Something along those lines. Give us a FRP chassis which we can upgrade to carbon,  no plastic dogbone rubbish, decent shaft driven 4wd, slipper clutch and loads of points of adjustment. 

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5 minutes ago, Hobgoblin said:

I'd love to see a Top Force 2! Something along those lines. Give us a FRP chassis which we can upgrade to carbon,  no plastic dogbone rubbish, decent shaft driven 4wd, slipper clutch and loads of points of adjustment. 

They should have kept making the DB02...

but yes, a new 4wd is due, DF04 please Tamiya.

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Just make Top Force a staple and that would do alot. But buggies are all made for indoor carpet racing now. At least most buggies. I think Tamiya is one of few that makes an Offroad buggy. Just curious @Saito2 , What would you like to see as a "new" production buggy? And what kind of improvement above the Top Force would you like to see? 

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I think the only people who won't agree with you @Saito2 are those who are completely disinterested in offroad cars, and aren't disagreeing but don't have an opinion.

An update to the Top Force would be a start, the chassis is fine but the gearboxes are the problem.  Modern buggies don't have gearboxes in the same way, and have pretty much unlimited gearing options.  Having the option of a slipper or centre diff would be nice too so it can be setup for anything. 

It probably needs to start with a new race kit though and then a plastic version of that, and that is incredibly unlikely given Tamiya disbanded the offroad racing a few years ago.  Something TB05 based would be interesting, with the option for front and rear motor too.

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10 hours ago, Finnsllc said:

Just make Top Force a staple and that would do alot.

Honestly, knowing how tough the market is and the cost to develop and tool up a new buggy, keeping the Top Force or some other DF01 around (Terra Conqueror perhaps) would be a good start. I like the DF01 and although I don't find them quite as bombproof as a Thundershot series buggy, they do have a more "modern-ness" about them.

Purely adding to the DF01, I'd like to see the alloy motor mount, improved propshaft and all-plastic gearset as standard equipment. Digging further, a slipper would be nice.  The upper rear gearbox cover, B6, is too flexy and affixed with only 3 self tappers. This needs to be made of a more reinforced plastic and better fastened to prevent gear stripping. The rear tower mount is vulnerable in bad rollovers. Most of the DF01 carcasses I've come across show damage at the front gearbox too. The case itself, A5, develops stress fractures along the screw bosses. The front lower cover/lower arm mount, A3, takes a beating too. It has alot of jobs to do for a piece of ABS held on with 4 self tappers. Without a total redesign, better, reinforced plastics would minimally help.

From a clean sheet? I like shaft drive and gear diffs but optional ball diffs would be nice for those that want them. I hate to see suspension arm mounts integrated into gearboxes. One good whack and the whole gearbox needs torn down. The modern design language is much more homogeneous. Whereas buggies like the Top Force have swap-able parts tacked on together with self tapping screws as the sole fastener, newer buggies "interlock" more. You can change shock towers, swap a plastic tub for FRP plates, etc, just like Lego with the Tamiyas like the DF01.  Its fun, but not totally integrated and thus lacks the one piece, solid feel of modern equipment. Better, stiffer, stronger materials with stress points dispersed thorough the whole chassis beats relying on a self tapping screw fighting against shear, or worse, tensile forces especially in ABS or PC.

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2 hours ago, GTodd said:

DB02 was it, and no one bought it!

have one nib. soon to build

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9 minutes ago, Finnsllc said:

have one nib. soon to build

I want one soooooo bad.

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2 hours ago, Trowa Jakuard said:

Is the TT-02B that bad for a 4wd buggy?

Yes, no ground clearance.  The DB01/2 are the way to go. A Top Force would be better too, even the Dark Impact range would be a better option.

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3 hours ago, GTodd said:

DB02 was it, and no one bought it!

Too expensive and fickle with handling issues due to the battery and motor layout. The DB01 was the much better chassis. I still want one though but only for curiousity. 
 

The boring answer to this thread is for Tamiya to re re the DB01rrr or commit to larger runs of the DF03 with a few durability hop ups bundled. 

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9 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Something TB05 based would be interesting, with the option for front and rear motor too.

New TC-01 would be interesting, it has similar layout to competitive buggies. But I'm affraid that suspension mounts are too weak for long arms..

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Some great points here. The annoying thing is that it wouldn't really need to be ground up. A DF03 has a lot of great features. If the redesigned the drivetrain to run 48dp gears and a broadly available slipper clutch, some gear diffs, it would run well. That said, a just doing the Durga and Baldre again with the RRR tub and axles, so modern batteries and 12mm hex wheels can be fitted would be a no brainer. The DB01 is such a great chassis, and rerun the 511 reinforced plastics. Its all stuff they already have moulds for and for club racing it would run well. Throw in a new third body option and you are done. 

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What I would like to see is a throwback to the experimental and sometimes crazy mid eighties with a vehicle that brings something a bit different to the table.  It doesn't have to be a racing machine for the modern day user.

I've been looking at other makes and Nichimo, above others, have caught my eye with their Luminous and The Midships buggies.  Both look amazing and are marvellous examples of what was being experimented with for workable 4WD off road buggies at the time.  The Tamiya Hotshot was a product of that generation with it's peculiar rear suspension system and fully enclosed chassis.

The more recent DB02 was a bit odd and interesting, and was reminiscent of cars like The Midships, but aimed more at the racing scene where it proved problematic and unpopular.  

In a way, cars like the DB02, DF02, TT02, and the Tenth Technology Predator hark back to cars such as Nichimo Midships and Tamiya Avante series, but of course are much more simplified and most are cheaper to produce, quicker to build and easier to maintain.  Technologically speaking, they are a bit more boring, and all appear the same variation on a theme, except maybe the DB02 that dared to be different, but paid the price for it.

Even the on road TA03 in the mid 90's was not a typical belt drive chassis.  Unlike any other belt driven, pulley to pulley cars, you had to get through two complete and fully working, many geared, front and rear transmissions before the belt even came into it.  The belt replaced the prop shaft and the bevel gears only, and not the rest of the gearboxes.  A classic example of something different and interesting and not out of context here.

If Tamiya could bring back that innovation or experimental quirkiness, or flat out released a homage to any one of those early buggies from Nichimo or Hirobo or others, I'd be very interested to see it and would more than likely want to own one or two.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Trowa Jakuard said:

Is the TT-02B that bad for a 4wd buggy?

Despite not personally being a fan of it, don't get discouraged if you have TT02B. They aren't terrible, faulty buggies. The ground clearance is low and there can be issues with the plastic gears in the rear if you start upping the power. On the plus side, there's plenty of spares and hop-ups as this is Tamiya's default, entry level 4wd buggy. I'm sure there is still fun to be had with them.

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I rather like the look of the Plasma Edge II as a first buggy for my lad - what's the generally recognised solution / hop-up parts for the weak rear gears?

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35 minutes ago, thegorf said:

I rather like the look of the Plasma Edge II as a first buggy for my lad - what's the generally recognised solution / hop-up parts for the weak rear gears?

They're only weak if you decide to push more power through them than a Sport Tuned, otherwise they're just fine.

I've upgraded mine with GPM metal bits instead of the plastic diff gears because I'm running monster wheels/tires and a brushless setup, but for more normal applications shimming the diff at the back may be enough. Just a shim or two on the backs of both the bevel gears in the rear (and front if you wish) to get them meshing a little more closely and you should be set.

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It's beginning to sound like an IMPROVED, updated DB-01 might be the most feasible.

We DON'T want a $400+ Buggy!! Team Associated and Losi do a great job of selling exorbitantly priced Buggies!! 😖 

Tamiya COULD do some minor tweaks to the DB-01. Like the infamously WEAK A5. People have made or bought (when available) Metal Plates that reinforced the Front End and securely tied the Suspension Pins in place.

The Rear is less of a problem, but still a problem!  The addition of front and rear Brace Plates would be a great start! 👍👍 

Oil Filled Diffs. If you don't want them, just slop Grease in them, and use them as a regular Gear Diff! If you WANT the Tuneability - It's there for you. 😁

Aluminium Center Driveshaft, Aluminium Motor Mount, 12mm Hex Wheels and CVDs in ALL Kits.....

And we might have a decent, mid range 4X4 Buggy! That WON'T break the Bank.

(I HOPE that Tamiya Reps still look at these)

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Incidentally, while I know I harp on better quality materials and sometimes design issues, there is a perfect article(s) about the DF03 on RC Soup called the DF03 MS, Can It Compete? from back in 2015. Its a pretty good illustration of what a racing environment can do to mid level Tamiya RC products. I honestly liked the Dark Impact a great deal but felt it was a bit held back by some issues (most notably the alloy gear issue). Things did not go well for the DF03 MS in the articles.

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Another epic thread @Saito2

Everyone is understandably coming at your question from here+ but, for me, it’s not that simple 

Or at least runs deeper 

Tamiya has spent c. 25 years building a brand that largely sells on legacy quality / nostalgia not competitive performance - ok, maybe 15 years since decent Worlds success ? 

Look at the number of hop ups we’ve been gently educated to pay for to try (but fail) to compete with cheaper / better alternatives out of the box ?

So - yes, pick any of the above decent 4WD options mentioned above, hop it up further + you’ll end up with something that, more or less, scratches your itch 😂

But for me that’s maybe not what @Saito2 is driving at 

Why can’t TamIya (even briefly) indulge themselves with an out of the box 4WD worthy of 60 years RC innovation come 2024 ?

Not including TRF, the last on road car that did it for me was the 934 / 30th Ann in 2006 - and, before that, in off roaD, the TFE ... so we’re frankly long overdue a taste of the good stuff vs shelling peas !

Whats the answer ? Don’t buy boring, repetitive commonality ... because until the market speaks, why should Tamiya change ?  

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1 hour ago, SuperChamp82 said:

Why can’t TamIya (even briefly) indulge themselves with an out of the box 4WD worthy of 60 years RC innovation come 2024 ?

It would be nice, especially since 4wd buggies seem to have held importance for Tamiya in the past. The company seemed quite proud of the Hot Shot, Super Shot, Bigwig, Avante and Egress over the years. They just seemed more important than 2wd equivalents in Tamiya literature, or perhaps its merely a notion I have.

1 hour ago, SuperChamp82 said:

Whats the answer ? Don’t buy boring, repetitive commonality ... because until the market speaks, why should Tamiya change ?

Bingo. If the "average" TT02B sells, than that's good enough in Tamiya's eyes.

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