tomjkear 24 Posted July 12, 2020 I want to replace the stock motor in a TT-02B kit with something a bit more powerful but I'm not clear what my options are. I want to use the kit supplied TBLE-02S ESC and I'll be using NiMh battries. What are my options if I want to get the best motor whist keeping the cost down? I'm in the UK and would like to get it delivered asap I put a Mamba Max 5700Kv in a DF-03 (Dark Impact) in the past and was really impressed with it on NiMh batteries... I'm not after that kind of power and nor am I looking to pay that kind of money... but I know the stock motor is going to dissapoint me. Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted July 12, 2020 Best and cheapest are seldom if ever the same thing. A good compromise would be something like a Surpass Rocket 13.5t. Not the cheapest nor the fastest, but pretty quick and not terribly expensive. Should work nicely on your TBLE-02 too. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomjkear 24 Posted July 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, TurnipJF said: Best and cheapest are seldom if ever the same thing. A good compromise would be something like a Surpass Rocket 13.5t. Not the cheapest nor the fastest, but pretty quick and not terribly expensive. Should work nicely on your TBLE-02 too. I think what I mean is "what is the least amount I need to spend to get a noticable improvement in power?". And also what is compatible with the ESC? I'll check out the Surpass Rocket! EDIT: I'll be honest... that's more than I was hoping to spend. What kind of performance can I expect from an uprated brushed Tamiya motor, for example a Sport Tuned RS540? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howards 456 Posted July 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, tomjkear said: And also what is compatible with the ESC? Brushed to around 23-25t depending on 'stuff' Sensored brushless to 10.5t with ESC fan. The problem with the TBLE02s in your situation is that (AFAIK) you can't chuck a brushless unsensored cheapie motor from Absima or Goolrc etc at it. So you are kinda stuck with mid range brushed stuff like Tamiya's GT tuned and Superstock (if brave) or sensored brushless which are always 'expensive'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathon Gillham 4606 Posted July 12, 2020 The brushed motors that the TBLE-02S can run aren't that fast, and a decent brushed motor costs more than a cheap brushless motor anyway. If you go below 13.5T then the TBLE-02S may have issues and need a fan, which is more expense. Get a cheap sensored 13.5T brushless motor and a bigger pinion. Not sure what size but check the manula and aim for FDR of around 6.5 at a guess. Even going from 17T to 19T pinion made a big difference in mine. Look at those blue motors on ebay, I don't have any but people on here rate them. There was a Speed Passion just sold on here for not much too, so check secondhand as well. Or the Surpass Rocket V2 are cheap, V3 are a bit more and the V4 are great value but more expensive. The V4S will keep up with modern race motors at half the price. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howards 456 Posted July 12, 2020 Other option would be to chuck a 3s Lipo at it and cross your fingers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted July 12, 2020 If a Surpass is pushing the budget, go for a 13.5t Bluebottle. Cheaper than many brushed motors and pretty quick - every bit as fast as the race-spec motors from a few years ago. Usually around £25, but can be had considerably cheaper if you shop around and/or wait for special offers. I paid £12 for my last one, postage and sensor cable included. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomjkear 24 Posted July 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said: The brushed motors that the TBLE-02S can run aren't that fast, and a decent brushed motor costs more than a cheap brushless motor anyway. If you go below 13.5T then the TBLE-02S may have issues and need a fan, which is more expense. Get a cheap sensored 13.5T brushless motor and a bigger pinion. Not sure what size but check the manula and aim for FDR of around 6.5 at a guess. Even going from 17T to 19T pinion made a big difference in mine. Look at those blue motors on ebay, I don't have any but people on here rate them. There was a Speed Passion just sold on here for not much too, so check secondhand as well. Or the Surpass Rocket V2 are cheap, V3 are a bit more and the V4 are great value but more expensive. The V4S will keep up with modern race motors at half the price. Pinion gear is a whole other mystery I'll have to fathom out. 4 minutes ago, TurnipJF said: If a Surpass is pushing the budget, go for a 13.5t Bluebottle. Cheaper than many brushed motors and pretty quick - every bit as fast as the race-spec motors from a few years ago. Usually around £25, but can be had considerably cheaper if you shop around and/or wait for special offers. I paid £12 for my last one. This sounds interesting. Please can you point my in the right direction - my search results don't seem great. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted July 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, tomjkear said: Pinion gear is a whole other mystery I'll have to fathom out. This sounds interesting. Please can you point my in the right direction - my search results don't seem great. Sorry, I should have explained: they are seldom actually sold as Bluebottles. Usually they carry no branding at all. Here is an example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-540-13-5T-Waterproof-Sensored-Brushless-Motor-for-1-10-RC-Car-Auto-Truck/372044697985 Just search for 13.5t brushless motor and look for the blue unbranded ones. Lots of eBay sellers have them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WizardWithGuns 1 Posted July 12, 2020 I have a 13.5 turn turnigy trackstar, it runs great, it was about £35 delivered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted July 12, 2020 Aye, they are good too. A bit more expensive than a Bluebottle, about the same in terms of performance, but possibly a bit more reliable. (Not that I have had a Bluebottle fail on me yet, but the cooling on the Trackstar looks better, and heat isn't good for motors as you no doubt know.) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathon Gillham 4606 Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, tomjkear said: Pinion gear is a whole other mystery I'll have to fathom out. I've just checked the manual and the biggest it looks like you can fit is the 19T. This gives an FDR of 9.5 which is better than the 10.7 the 17T pinion gives, but still very high for a 13.5T motor. I would stick to that for now. To get it lower you will need the high speed gearset and the Yeah Racing motor mount which adds expense, so I would just buy the 19T pinion for now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferruz 11702 Posted July 12, 2020 I was in a similar situation and recently bought a Hobbypower 3650 13T 3100KV, a chinese blue can. I wanted to to try my first brushless motor with a TBLE02S supplied in the kits. I'm still waiting for the delivery, but I forgot what mentioned above: that esc only works with sensored motors, so I guess I won't be able to make it work. Are there any ways around it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Re-Bugged 10143 Posted July 13, 2020 7 hours ago, Ferruz said: I'm still waiting for the delivery, but I forgot what mentioned above: that esc only works with sensored motors, so I guess I won't be able to make it work. Are there any ways around it? Unfortunately not, TBLE 02 will just beep and flash it’s light until a sensor wire is connected for a brushless motor. I have a Hobbywing 17.5t Justock hooked up to a TBLE 02 in my Blackfoot, 2s LiPo, no fan, no problems so far. Hobbywing motors come with a sensor wire. Not always long enough though unless the ESC is close to the motor. My Wild One has a LRP 13.5t (K7?) in it with a TBLE 02 on 2s, no fan. It was an expensive motor and didn’t come with a sensor wire but runs great. The added bonus though was it had pre soldered Tamiya connectors and plugged straight in to the ESC. As said above though the Bluebottles are very popular and cheap route to brushless. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Problemchild 2149 Posted July 13, 2020 I’ve just bought one of these after some good reviews https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164155259854 I normally go for the goolRC 3650 combos for £30 they are great - then you can save your current ESC for the next build you will need a Deans fo tamiya adaptor though for £2 JJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slimleeroy 241 Posted July 13, 2020 11 hours ago, Howards said: Brushed to around 23-25t depending on 'stuff' Sensored brushless to 10.5t with ESC fan. The problem with the TBLE02s in your situation is that (AFAIK) you can't chuck a brushless unsensored cheapie motor from Absima or Goolrc etc at it. So you are kinda stuck with mid range brushed stuff like Tamiya's GT tuned and Superstock (if brave) or sensored brushless which are always 'expensive'. If brave??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slimleeroy 241 Posted July 13, 2020 10 hours ago, TurnipJF said: Aye, they are good too. A bit more expensive than a Bluebottle, about the same in terms of performance, but possibly a bit more reliable. (Not that I have had a Bluebottle fail on me yet, but the cooling on the Trackstar looks better, and heat isn't good for motors as you no doubt know.) Are all the sensored motors full 540 rotors? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howards 456 Posted July 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, slimleeroy said: If brave??? Tamiya reckon max turn 25, stuperstock is 23 IIRC, but I know people run them with no problems. Probably fine on an on-road car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegorf 39 Posted July 13, 2020 Are those unbranded blue sensored cans 2 pole or 4 pole? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferruz 11702 Posted July 13, 2020 @Re-Bugged thanks for the info! At this point, I'm just gonna buy another brushless motor before my first one even reaches my hands! It cost me 26 CAD including shipping, so not the end of the world, I'll just keep it on the side for the future. But Bluebottle does look like the right way to go for me, so I'll get one of those motors like you guys suggested, only thing, this time I'll make sure it's sensored! Although, before I do that, I need to scrub off a few more brushless-newbie doubts... like the cables! Not the sensor one, I mean the actual three cables that connect motor to esc. I've noticed that most of the brushless motors, unbranded to expensive, seem to be sold without these wires. There are quite e few appealing ads on the bay for sensored Bluebottles, many come with sensor cable too but no picture and no mention of the other cables Am I supposed to get them separately? Or would they be supplied? Also, it is my understanding that there are different connectors so I should make sure I get some Tamiya ones for the esc? I am not afraid of soldering if that's required, I just got a little confused with this cable thing whilst realizing that the brushless bug bit me, and it's now too late to brush back Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Re-Bugged 10143 Posted July 14, 2020 12 hours ago, Ferruz said: Although, before I do that, I need to scrub off a few more brushless-newbie doubts... like the cables! Not the sensor one, I mean the actual three cables that connect motor to esc. I've noticed that most of the brushless motors, unbranded to expensive, seem to be sold without these wires. There are quite e few appealing ads on the bay for sensored Bluebottles, many come with sensor cable too but no picture and no mention of the other cables Am I supposed to get them separately? Or would they be supplied? Also, it is my understanding that there are different connectors so I should make sure I get some Tamiya ones for the esc? I am not afraid of soldering if that's required, I just got a little confused with this cable thing whilst realizing that the brushless bug bit me, and it's now too late to brush back One of the reasons I went Hobbywing for my first step into Brushless was they are designed to fit together from the start which simplified things. Saving time and potential frustration for someone time poor like me. As you pointed out the motor doesn’t normally come with the Yellow Blue and Orange wire. The wires come with/on the ESC generally. If the TBLE 02 wires will reach the motor tabs, all well and good, just cut the Tamiya bullets off and solder on. If they don’t reach they will need to be extended. Brass Bullets work well covered with a bit of heat shrink. (sorry I can’t remember if they were 3mm or 3.5?) Another nice touch for Hobbywing is where the wires are soldered to the motor tabs they are actually like a bullet connector too so if you need to change your motor the wires now just simply unplug no need to de-solder. One last thing, you can’t trust ebay pictures. I clicked ‘Buy Now’ on a HW 13.5t Quicrun thinking it was an older red can as pictured, but turned out to be the newest black can type, bonus for A$55 shipped, they are now around A$80 from the same seller which is a shame. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomjkear 24 Posted July 16, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 8:44 AM, Problemchild said: I’ve just bought one of these after some good reviews https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164155259854 I normally go for the goolRC 3650 combos for £30 they are great - then you can save your current ESC for the next build you will need a Deans fo tamiya adaptor though for £2 JJ This GOOLRC system looks interesting. There are a few similar looking/priced systems on eBay and I noticed some say they are suitable for on road cars and specifically say they're not for buggies and trucks. Any idea why that is? Here's an example : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274392216582 Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nowinaminute 2815 Posted July 16, 2020 31 minutes ago, tomjkear said: This GOOLRC system looks interesting. There are a few similar looking/priced systems on eBay and I noticed some say they are suitable for on road cars and specifically say they're not for buggies and trucks. Any idea why that is? Here's an example : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274392216582 Cheers That particular motor is known as a finned 380. The actual motor is a 380/390 size brushless with large cooling fins to make it the same diameter as a 540. They still work very well and have more power than most if not all brushed 540s but they tend to get a bit warmer than a full size 540 and can cog more (stuttering when trying to pull away gently at low throttle). Of you get one around 3000-3300KV, they work fine even in monster trucks etc but as you go further up the KV range, they begin to be a bit out of their depth because faster motors tend to cog more anyway and when you add in the fact it's a smaller motor it's like a double whammy. I have a 3930KV one in my dump truck and it works great but it will stutter if you try to make a gentle start so a 4370 would only be worse. I tend to avoid them most of the time because the price difference compared to a full 540 isn't much but they can be useful in certain situations. The torque is lower than a full 540 so they can be easier on the gears of vintage models whilst still offering a boost over brushed. The battery life tends to be terrific on them too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howards 456 Posted July 16, 2020 4 hours ago, tomjkear said: This GOOLRC system looks interesting. There are a few similar looking/priced systems on eBay and I noticed some say they are suitable for on road cars and specifically say they're not for buggies and trucks. Any idea why that is? Here's an example : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274392216582 Cheers I run one of these in a buggy - it's both insanely rapid and only cogs a tiny bit. For £30 you can't really do better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomjkear 24 Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 9:44 AM, nowinaminute said: That particular motor is known as a finned 380. The actual motor is a 380/390 size brushless with large cooling fins to make it the same diameter as a 540. They still work very well and have more power than most if not all brushed 540s but they tend to get a bit warmer than a full size 540 and can cog more (stuttering when trying to pull away gently at low throttle). Of you get one around 3000-3300KV, they work fine even in monster trucks etc but as you go further up the KV range, they begin to be a bit out of their depth because faster motors tend to cog more anyway and when you add in the fact it's a smaller motor it's like a double whammy. I have a 3930KV one in my dump truck and it works great but it will stutter if you try to make a gentle start so a 4370 would only be worse. I tend to avoid them most of the time because the price difference compared to a full 540 isn't much but they can be useful in certain situations. The torque is lower than a full 540 so they can be easier on the gears of vintage models whilst still offering a boost over brushed. The battery life tends to be terrific on them too. Nice clear explanation, thank you! On 7/16/2020 at 1:12 PM, Howards said: I run one of these in a buggy - it's both insanely rapid and only cogs a tiny bit. For £30 you can't really do better. Which one? The goolrc or the ebay link I posted? Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites