My attempt to build a CC-01 "crawler" in looks only :) and on a "budget"

[Emp40cal1911 57]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:53 AM, Nicadraus said:

Turned out really beautiful!

Thanks Nica. I am now for the meantime done. I will down the road maybe add some home made wheel welds and revisit the front suspension (like you did) and swap the front steering as Carmine suggested. I finished off the lightning (basic) and added some accessories to the rack, interior and exterior. This project was fun but i would not repeat it. 

[Emp40cal1911 57]

Also....Carmine, Nicadraus.....this is what i got for juice. I have looked online for a more modern battery and charger. Can anyone recommend an upgrade that would not break the bank and be suitable for a cc-01 and a F350 which would be used rarely? 
 

Any input would be appreciated thanks all. 

 

 

[mud4fun 1696]

We still use NiCD's in all our basher cars. Simply can't afford to upgrade to LiPo. We recently bought some Overlander 3300mah 7.2v NiMH packs from Modelsport (approx £16 each) and they are fine but in all honesty I prefer my 20 year old Sanyo NiCD's. They are still giving 90% of capacity when charged, give better punch than the new NiMH's and are much more stable. We find the NiMH's to vary quite a bit in how much charge they take, depending on their temp, ambient temps etc. I believe Sanyo made the best cells back in the late 90's.

I still use a 20yr old Pro Peak SuperNova programmable discharger/charger for my NiCD's, always discharge before charging and always store batteries fully charged. Never had a problem with it, really reliable and I still have about a dozen 20yr old Sanyo NiCD packs (7.2v, 8.4v and 9.6v, almost all 2000mah capacity) in regular daily use and still giving more than enough runtime for my kids and I to have races and crawling competitions.

We recently bought a brand new SkyRC T100 charger (approx £50) that will charge two packs at a time simply because it would cut down waiting time for my two daughters but it is nowhere near as good as my 20yr old kit, it can't be programmed to do a trickle charge on NiCD or NiMH because the **** thing cuts out after 2 hours on a safety feature that can't be disabled for those battery types. Yes, it will do a charge of just 0.3amp but what good is that if it constantly cuts out and beeps at you every 2 hours so you have to restart it. So it is great for fast charging on existing packs but if you get a new pack, the first charge needs to be a long trickle charge so you'd need a second charger for that whereas my SuperNova does both trickles and fast charges in one unit.

So in summary, if you have an old NiCD that still takes a good charge then continue using it but maybe invest in a decent charger.  If you need new batteries, for the sort of use you need then a couple of new overlander 3300mah NiMH packs will more than suffice IMHO, no point in spending alot of money on LiPo or even expensive NiMH packs. Just my two cents.

 

[mud4fun 1696]

Should add too that for my home built crawler I use a 2000mah 7.2v NiCD and can get 60-80 minute run times from it. This is because I use a massive torquey ex-cordless drill motor and 65:1 gearing. My youngest daughter loves the crawler and never needs to worry about it running out of battery, she'll get bored, cold or fed up long before the battery dies LOL However it is insanely slow compared to even modern crawlers let alone our buggies. It can take a full minute, maybe two, to get from one end of our garden to the other..... the buggies will do the same distance in 6-8 seconds......

I used a cheap graupner RC aeroplane propeller reduction unit in my DIY crawler. In addition to the transfer box gearing reduction. I had to drill out a pinion to fit the drill motor and modify the output shaft on the reduction unit to suit the thundershot gearbox but the result has lasted 20 years with not a single issue. 

The blue thing in the picture is the aeroplane reduction unit. The black gearbox is a thundershot rear gearbox used as a transfer case taking drive via traxxas propshafts to thundershot front gearboxes front and rear locked into solid axles but providing 2" ground clearance under the diffs and 4" under the center transfer case crossmember. All cheap components but using off the shelf gearboxes that I can get spares for easily. Oddly though, this has been running for 18 years and never had a single fault or needed any real maintenance. The kids just grab it and take it out in all weathers and I never bother servicing it. Ultra low gearing means there is little chance of crashes and they love the long run times compared with their buggies.

 

[Emp40cal1911 57]

18 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

Should add too that for my home built crawler I use a 2000mah 7.2v NiCD and can get 60-80 minute run times from it. This is because I use a massive torquey ex-cordless drill motor and 65:1 gearing. My youngest daughter loves the crawler and never needs to worry about it running out of battery, she'll get bored, cold or fed up long before the battery dies LOL However it is insanely slow compared to even modern crawlers let alone our buggies. It can take a full minute, maybe two, to get from one end of our garden to the other..... the buggies will do the same distance in 6-8 seconds......

I used a cheap graupner RC aeroplane propeller reduction unit in my DIY crawler. In addition to the transfer box gearing reduction. I had to drill out a pinion to fit the drill motor and modify the output shaft on the reduction unit to suit the thundershot gearbox but the result has lasted 20 years with not a single issue. 

The blue thing in the picture is the aeroplane reduction unit. The black gearbox is a thundershot rear gearbox used as a transfer case taking drive via traxxas propshafts to thundershot front gearboxes front and rear locked into solid axles but providing 2" ground clearance under the diffs and 4" under the center transfer case crossmember. All cheap components but using off the shelf gearboxes that I can get spares for easily. Oddly though, this has been running for 18 years and never had a single fault or needed any real maintenance. The kids just grab it and take it out in all weathers and I never bother servicing it. Ultra low gearing means there is little chance of crashes and they love the long run times compared with their buggies.

 

Wow!. That monster looks sick. Can you provide more info on this build? 

[mud4fun 1696]

45 minutes ago, Emp40cal1911 said:

Wow!. That monster looks sick. Can you provide more info on this build? 

Thank you, if you go to my showroom you'll find parts 1-10 of the build (thunderfoot). It was way back in 2005 from memory, long before all the modern crawlers were available. At the time it was just clodbusters and juggernaughts which were all really expensive to hop-up to get to a decent crawler machine. I built mine on a tight budget. It cost just £120'ish back then, using as many thundershot parts as I could because they were the buggies I raced and had oodles of parts for :-)

 

[mud4fun 1696]

Just to prove you do not need to spend alot of money on modern batteries or chargers....

This is what we use for all our cars (three of us race each other regularly).

The grey packs are genuine Tamiya 1400mah packs dating from 2000!!, they have each had over 2000 charges and are still accepting 80% of their original capacity. Still enough to give a standard thundershot about 10-15 minutes run time.

The various Sanyo packs in 2000mah 7.2v - 9.6v are all 18 yrs old, bought in 2002 and all have over 1000 charges per pack, still accepting 90% of capacity and still give sufficient run time to complete a 5 min race even with quite pokey motors or give insane long runtimes on our crawlers.

The overlander 3300 packs are all new and are NiMH

The SkyRC T100 charger (left) is used to fast charge two batteries at a time for the kids to give fast turn around for racing.

The ProPeak SuperNova (center) is still the go-to charger and does 90% of our discharging and fast charging at home as well as all trickle charging.

The ProPeak Delta (right) is used when we are away from home (eg. Clumber park or the beach), it connects directly to my Land Rovers battery to quick charge packs.

Total investment in batteries is approx £240 over 20 years, or just £12 a year :-)

[ACCEL 2014]

did you weather the Jerry can? looks real.👍

[Nicadraus 6198]

3 hours ago, Emp40cal1911 said:

Also....Carmine, Nicadraus.....this is what i got for juice. I have looked online for a more modern battery and charger. Can anyone recommend an upgrade that would not break the bank and be suitable for a cc-01 and a F350 which would be used rarely? 
 

Any input would be appreciated thanks all. 

 

 

When I retired from RCing in 2007, I sold all my batteries (8 of them) and two Muchmore chargers, dischargers, conditioners and only left the 20A power supply because I could still use it in other applications.

When I came back, I bought a new charger and batts all Lipo including the ones in the TX. I bought a Lipo batt that fits the CC-01 with very minor adjustments in the battery bay. The SKyRC iMax B6 charger cost $40 without the AC power supply and the batteries range from $30-60. Most modern chargers (If not all) can charge Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh, Li-Po/Li-On/Li-Fe batteries. The one I use for the CC-01 is $35 with 4200mah. Run time is about 45mins to an hour. Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh will give you 8-10mins on the average, 12 mins if you're lucky. Plus power drains like it's being sucked out. Li-Po is way better and no one can argue about that. Power, efficiency, run time, and ease of use.

I'm still using my old 20A power supply and can accommodate two chargers, fans, USB charger, etc. Connected via a power distributor in between.

This is the battery I'm using for the CC-01

[mud4fun 1696]

5 hours ago, Nicadraus said:

Li-Po is way better and no one can argue about that. Power, efficiency, run time, and ease of use.

Agreed BUT in our case we often have four cars running at the same time so at a minimum we need four packs, normally we like to have 2 packs per car initially charged (especially if we are off to an event or day trip.

LiPos are very expensive to buy, especially if I have to buy 8 of them. At least that is what I found when looking at switching to them for our fleet.

Also I believe I need to change all our ESC's to maximise the LiPo's life??,  our cars are mostly running 15-20yr old vintage ESC's not designed for LiPo use. That would be extremely costly to do as we run low turn motors in a few of our cars and they currently have Novak rooster and super roosters. Equivalent modern ESC's would be in the region of £80-100 per car?

I am looking to go LiPo and brushless on my Avante chassis buggies soon, I'll see how I get on with them and look to switch the fleet over in the next couple of years.

 

 

[Carmine A 2046]

I agree with @Nicadraus, Lipo is by far the most efficient and powerful juice you can run in your Rigs!! 

Most People know, I'm poor as DIRT. I also use a SkyRC Charger, $26 without AC input. But I used an old Laptop Charging Brick (15v, 6A) and with the right plug for the SkyRC Charger already fitted!! 

These are the Batteries I buy.... 

It WILL fit in the old style oval Tamiya Batry Slots, TIGHTLY. It fits in my M05, TT-02, DT-02 and CC-01.  They're all over Evilbay for under $20.00 each!! 

As far as a proper ESC... Hobbywing WP1060 ESC has Lipo Cutoff, and more than enough oomph for any Motor down to 12t!! Sticking with Brushed anyway. 

Your current ESCs may also be fine.... Just buy some "Lipo checkers". They plug into the Balance Lead of the Batry, and make a godawful BEEP when the Charge is below SAFE running levels. Best of all, the Chinese FLOOD the market with these, and they're cheap as Chips!! 

I've kept 2 NiMH Batteries, for if I want to take a RC on a Plane Trip with me. 😊 

Team Novak used to be one of my Sponsors. LOVED the Roosters!! Awesome ESC!!

[mud4fun 1696]

2 hours ago, Carmine A said:

Team Novak used to be one of my Sponsors. LOVED the Roosters!! Awesome ESC!!

I have two roosters and a super rooster still in regular use running 8.4v packs with 11T-19T motors. They must be 15-18 years old now? They have been my most reliable and long lived ESC's but they weren't cheap :-)

[Nicadraus 6198]

8 hours ago, mud4fun said:

Agreed BUT in our case we often have four cars running at the same time so at a minimum we need four packs, normally we like to have 2 packs per car initially charged (especially if we are off to an event or day trip.

LiPos are very expensive to buy, especially if I have to buy 8 of them. At least that is what I found when looking at switching to them for our fleet.

Also I believe I need to change all our ESC's to maximise the LiPo's life??,  our cars are mostly running 15-20yr old vintage ESC's not designed for LiPo use. That would be extremely costly to do as we run low turn motors in a few of our cars and they currently have Novak rooster and super roosters. Equivalent modern ESC's would be in the region of £80-100 per car?

I am looking to go LiPo and brushless on my Avante chassis buggies soon, I'll see how I get on with them and look to switch the fleet over in the next couple of years.

 

 

Lipos are cheap. Some even go as low as $22. Now I don't believe that'll be expensive for you with how your rig looks like. 

You only need one Lipo per car. Because as I have mentioned, run time is equivalent to 4 Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh in just one charge. That'll be more than enough for your day trip. 

[SupraChrgd82 1425]

41 minutes ago, Nicadraus said:

 

You only need one Lipo per car. Because as I have mentioned, run time is equivalent to 4 Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh in just one charge. That'll be more than enough for your day trip. 

I may be mistaken, but 5000mah is 5000mah regardless of battery type.

If you factor in LiPo cutoff at 40% versus the addition weight of NiMH that you can run down completely, runtimes are roughly equivalent.

[Nicadraus 6198]

22 minutes ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

I may be mistaken, but 5000mah is 5000mah regardless of battery type.

If you factor in LiPo cutoff at 40% versus the addition weight of NiMH that you can run down completely, runtimes are roughly equivalent.

Nope. 5000mah in Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh has way shorter run time compared to a lithium battery (Li-Po/Li-On/LiFe).  Why do you think batteries have changed from Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh to lithium in mobile/portable gadgets, RCs, flashlights, etc over the years? Because lithium is lighter, lasts longer and obviously better than its older counterpart. 

[Carmine A 2046]

45 minutes ago, Nicadraus said:

Nope. 5000mah in Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh has way shorter run time compared to a lithium battery (Li-Po/Li-On/LiFe).  Why do you think batteries have changed from Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh to lithium in mobile/portable gadgets, RCs, flashlights, etc over the years? Because lithium is lighter, lasts longer and obviously better than its older counterpart. 

I was a late convert myself, believing that NiMH Batteries were "good enough", and then all the HYPE about Lipos EXPLODING!!! 💣🔥🔥🔥 

What finally convinced me (in LATE 2018!!) Was a couple of Videos all concurring that if you took 5 - 4000 MAh NiMHs and 5 4000 MAh Lipos.....

ALL of the Lipos will stay at or very near their Rated Voltage, until the Cutoff kicked in... (START: 7.6V - END: 7.0-7.1V)

ALL of the NiMHs, after losing only 40% of their charge - quickly and steadily DROP OFF Output Voltage! (START: 7.4V - END: 5.9-6.2V)  ANYONE who's ever Raced knows that means FAR less punch at the end of the Race.

And the all important SAFETY, comes down to a little extra Common Sense. 

1) ALWAYS run an ESC with a Lipo Cutoff, OR plug a $2 Lipo Checker/Alarm to the Balance Lead.

2) NEVER, EVER charge Lipos Unattended!! And spend the Money on even a decent Balance Charger - NEVER rely on the USB Chargers that comes with some Lipo equipped RTR Cars. 

3) USE a "Lipo Bag" when Charging, although I no longer trust them.... 

(I went one BETTER, safer and roughly the same amount of money - I MADE one using Ceramic Floor Tiles, held the Box shape with Steel Straps, and adhered and Sealed the Tile Floor to the Walls with High-Temp JB Weld Epoxy. Then put 2" of Sand on the Floor of it. For a Lid, another Tile, secured with an ordinary Sandbag.) 😊

I TESTED this with a Friend's PUFFED 8000 MAh 6S Lipo, with the Charger at its HIGHEST Amp setting..... At first the built-in Safety of the Charger kept shutting off the Charger!! 

Then I set the Charger for a NiMH Charge - NO CUTOFF.  (Mind you, this was all done OUTSIDE, on a large Concrete Patio, BOTH of us holding Industrial Fire Extinguishers.) 

After 12 minutes - KABOOM!!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥  The heat was so intense that the Tiles GLOWED!!! But the Flames were nearly fully CONTAINED!

THAT BTW, just showed both of us just how USELESS "Lipo Bags" are!! 😖

 

 

 

[Emp40cal1911 57]

20 hours ago, ACCEL said:

did you weather the Jerry can? looks real.👍

Yes. Before weathering it looked toyish and just cheesy. 

[Emp40cal1911 57]

Great info folks. 
 

So my understanding based on your comments is that lipo batteries are the common battery types of today? Correct?

My CC-01 has a Tamiya TBLE 02s and a rc4wd 55t motor. So a lipo would work? No fire? Lol

I am assuming it will need an adapter maybe for the power plug correct? or cut and splice? 
 

The "MAh" though. The higher the better? 
 

 

 

[Carmine A 2046]

3 minutes ago, Emp40cal1911 said:

 

The "MAh" though. The higher the better? 

 

 

 

For longer runtimes, definitely! Crawlers only NEED about 2000-2500 MAh of storage for over a half hour or so of running.

 

 

 

[mud4fun 1696]

To be honest, in a scale crawler having a lightweight LiPo is probably not the advantage it would be in a buggy or touring car.

The reason I say this is because in my DIY crawler I actually ADDED weight to make sure the tyres got pushed down onto the surface to get bite so I wrapped lead sheet around the lower suspension arms and I use a heavy NiCD battery pack.

It gives a nice scale appearance when crawling as the tyres remain firmly planted on the ground, gains you traction and allows you to utilise full articulation. If the crawler is too light you would need supremely soft springs fitted otherwise you'll just lift wheels all the time and lose traction too. 

I also removed the foam from inside my tyres, cut the treads to allow the tyre to flex more and the tyres now wrap themselves around rocks and cliff edges to allow it to crawl over stuff that it would otherwise just spin tyres on.

A 2000mah NiCD gives me 60 minutes run time in my super low geared crawler so I really don't see any real point in LiPo for that. Even in a Tamiya CC01 I'd imagine a 2000-3300mah pack would give you 30-40 minutes.

[Nicadraus 6198]

A lot of Lipos with hard casing weighs close to Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh counterparts. Some the same. This is because of ROAR/Ifmar restrictions. The battery I'm using for my CC-01 is probably just lighter by a few grams. But there's always a way to balance the weight of your car. That is also a method/technique done with on-road, rally cars, buggies, and crawlers too. If you're settling your CC-01 for crawling, you'll have to change your battery layout because you have transferred the weight from the mid CG to rear-mid. Or if you want to retain that layout, you will need to add more weights to the front. Metal beadlock wheels also help to provide pressure to the tires for crawling. It gives traction.

[Carmine A 2046]

I understand the weight.... A lot of my competition in Pro Crawling like to go as LIGHT as humanly possible. I DON'T. My SCX10 II weighs 8.5lbs and my Wraith weighs over 12lbs!!!  I WIN more often than I lose to much lighter Rigs, which don't look very real, with Suspension and Tires that barely compress.

I only run Lipo. And a LOT of Stainless Steel parts. I don't ALWAYS Win, but I always look GOOD doing it!! 😜