Carmine A 2046 Posted September 14, 2020 It seems with all the expensive Prototyping you guys do - it would HAVE to be cheaper at some point to invest in a GOOD 3D Printer, comparable to what Shapeways uses... I've heard that THEIRS was over $30,000!! But like every other Technology, it's going to start falling fast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted September 14, 2020 8 hours ago, ChrisRx718 said: Glad you decided to keep it, and look forward to seeing what you do with it. As 3D printing evolves do you think the cost of them will come down enough for you to invest? Even the limited things I've designed and had printed at shapeways have struck me how expensive it is! I hate to imagine all the expense you've had with all the prototyping you've done! The tech is always moving forward, but i can't see me getting a printer anytime soon. The main kicker with shapeways is the 10 bucks delivery so getting little bits alone is uneconomical. Having got some PLA prototypes cheap in the uk, the advantage shapeways has is consistency, accuracy and much stronger materials. Those kind of printers aren't getting cheap anytime soon. Thing is, i don't tend to use shapeways until i am over 90% sure i have the part correct. I have used cheap pla printing in the uk to prototype the FF03 4GR gearcase, but the quality was poor, and that's from a well set up machine with someone who knows what they are doing. I measure very carefully with good tools, use a pro level 3D modelling software, and i am trained in it's use for my day job, so i can keep the risks/expenditure fairly low. Some parts might seem expensive, but ultimately if i can afford it and i enjoy doing it there is value there. Plus, with things like my TRF buggy transmissions in particular, i have made easily as much money through my store as i have spent on doing new bits. That's the strength of Shapeways; if you do something a few people want you can make a dew bucks and on a small scale like mine i would say its cost neutral. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted September 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Carmine A said: It seems with all the expensive Prototyping you guys do - it would HAVE to be cheaper at some point to invest in a GOOD 3D Printer, comparable to what Shapeways uses... I've heard that THEIRS was over $30,000!! But like every other Technology, it's going to start falling fast. This actually got me interested in actual machine prices. Turns out a small SLS desktop printer would be about EUR5,000 (about $6,000). Still a lot more than i've spent at Shapeways!!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmine A 2046 Posted September 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said: This actually got me interested in actual machine prices. Turns out a small SLS desktop printer would be about EUR5,000 (about $6,000). Still a lot more than i've spent at Shapeways!!!! It's at least come down considerably from the last time I looked into it, in 2014... SHIPPING kills it for me especially. Western U.S. particularly. Even small stuff from Shapeways has been as much as $15-$20!! 😲😖 Anyone who knows me knows I obviously can't afford THAT. You're right about SLS and PLA. Proof of concept are the C-Hubs on my 8lb Crawler - and the AmPro Front Double Wishbone Suspension Kit on my Lunchbox. BOTH have taken a lot of abuse and at 7 and 5 years old respectively, both are still going strong!! 👍👍 Have you ever thought of selling, or giving away your 3D Files in "My Mini Factory"?? It seems simpler for the smaller Independent like yourself. And since all you're really doing is basically having your Files Hosted, for a small fee with no Shipping involved... It would seem that your profit margin would be considerably higher! 👍👍 I WISH I could get my Old Brain to wrap itself around CAD. I just can't seem to get it. I'd do it in a Heartbeat. It might've been able to keep our heads above water here... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmine A 2046 Posted September 14, 2020 Can I have the Link to your Shapeways Store? In case I get even more than I'm planning next year... I'm planning on a Shopping spree that would make a Teenage Girl jealous!! 😜😂 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted September 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Carmine A said: Can I have the Link to your Shapeways Store? In case I get even more than I'm planning next year... I'm planning on a Shopping spree that would make a Teenage Girl jealous!! 😜😂 https://www.shapeways.com/shops/cotic-rc 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmine A 2046 Posted September 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/cotic-rc Thanks!! SO...... YOU'RE the one who came up with the GHII/Thundershot infusion!! 😁👍👍 That's on my list as well. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 8, 2020 Shapeways and Fibrelyte goodness! So, we have steering arms (pretty much direct replacement for the cracked kit arms), bumper in flexible PA12 material, and mounts for the front and carbon parts. In carbon was have front and rear towers and the rear upper deck. Firstly steering arms.... Plastic tie rod and bushings replaced with ball connectors and a spare turnbuckle. The ball cups set at 55.5mm centres same as the kit tie bar. Next is front tower. I designed shaped and keyed inserts to mount the body posts because they are angled up from the tower. The block mounting the tower is angled at 4 deg, same as the front kickup, so the shocks run straight. All assembled At this point it became apparent i got this wrong. Without any offset for their mounting, the camber link mount on the right interferes with the spur cover, and the low, central tower bolt/nut catches on the top cover. Onto the rear! This mainly a tidied up version of @wtcc5 design, so hat tipto him. It's a carbon top deck to replace the bulky plastic kit part, and i designed a nice 3D printed interface piece for the rear tower attachment, plus a spacer (pictured below) so the plate fits flush with the other top deck. And all installed You can see i have replaced the screws in the bottom deck that did attavh to the plastic bulkhead with machine screws and nuts. For the body mounts, I had to trim the corners off the square lugs to fit, but the went on easily. I didn't release the rear of the kit mount had removeable square inserts too, and they don't fit, so i used some spare CVA pistons as big washers which did the trick. Everything else just bolts on directly Finally, the bumper went on nicely enough but i didn't make it nearly deep enough to protect the front of the chassis. I have already damaged and gouged my beautiful Eagle Racing front lower deck, so whilst i will leave this on, it needs changing. So, probably 50% successful! The rear went together beautifully, the steering arms seem good, and i am really pleased the front body post arrangement work because that was hard to model! I have redesigned the front tower mount to pull the tower 3mm back, and made the mounting holes to be threaded so there are only screw heads on the front instead of nuts. That should sort all the clearance issues. I have also done a much deeper bumper, this time in black versatile plastic. It will be deep enough to shroud the front of the chassis and protect it by hitting the ground first. Finally, seeing as i was ordering just as small number of parts, i finished off the replacement front arms i have been working on. Again, i will try them in versatile plastic. They are pretty much a direct copy of the ABS kit parts, but with thicker material all round. The c hub pivots on my kit arms are very baggy so i would like to replace them. I also built in 2mm of room for spacers either side of the c hub so i can adjust the wheelbase a little. They should be here by the end of the month. If it all goes together nicely i think there are a couple more tweaks to make on the carbon front tower to make it easier to install the mounting block, so i will do that and give all the designs to Fibre Lyte and put the upgrade kit of parts on my Shapeways store. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmine A 2046 Posted October 8, 2020 Right Nice!! I guess with that much reengineering, a few tweaks are par for the course... But it REALLY looks the business!!! 👌 ANY of this fit the FF-03? I'll HAVE one somehow... maybe rob a BANK!! 😜 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Carmine A said: Right Nice!! I guess with that much reengineering, a few tweaks are par for the course... But it REALLY looks the business!!! 👌 ANY of this fit the FF-03? I'll HAVE one somehow... maybe rob a BANK!! 😜 Thanks. None of this is FF03 compatible, but you can get aftermarket carbon towers for the 03 easily enough. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicadraus 6198 Posted October 9, 2020 Damned you Cy! You made me so envious. I want those CF shock towers, steering set and front shock tower holder. Do you think it's possible to order for me and ship it here? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Nicadraus said: Damned you Cy! You made me so envious. I want those CF shock towers, steering set and front shock tower holder. Do you think it's possible to order for me and ship it here? I would be happy to once I have a front tower option that works. Like I said in the post, there's some revised parts on the way to get it working as is, but once I have those and I know I have all the clearances I need, I'll update the front tower and mounting design to make the parts simpler and easier to install for anyone else getting them. As soon as I have done that, I'll put the kits up for sale on Shapeways and Fibre-Lyte. I suspect it would be cheapest/easiest for you to order Shapeways kit yourself direct once it's on my store, and give me a shout about the carbon parts so I can order them for you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicadraus 6198 Posted October 9, 2020 6 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said: I would be happy to once I have a front tower option that works. Like I said in the post, there's some revised parts on the way to get it working as is, but once I have those and I know I have all the clearances I need, I'll update the front tower and mounting design to make the parts simpler and easier to install for anyone else getting them. As soon as I have done that, I'll put the kits up for sale on Shapeways and Fibre-Lyte. I suspect it would be cheapest/easiest for you to order Shapeways kit yourself direct once it's on my store, and give me a shout about the carbon parts so I can order them for you. Just send me the links. Thanks! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rich_f 233 Posted October 12, 2020 I've just started cleaning up an ff01 I got in a job lot and it has a broken rear shock tower, where the top arm attaches, so I'm going to need something to either fix it or replace it with. How much did the rear shock mount cost from fibre-lyte and can anyone order it from them now? I notice they don't have any ff01 parts listed on their website. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 13, 2020 10 hours ago, rich_f said: I've just started cleaning up an ff01 I got in a job lot and it has a broken rear shock tower, where the top arm attaches, so I'm going to need something to either fix it or replace it with. How much did the rear shock mount cost from fibre-lyte and can anyone order it from them now? I notice they don't have any ff01 parts listed on their website. Its not on their list because its my design. I haven't told them they can sell it yet. I guess based on their other shovk towers it would be about £15. I don't want to release it for sale yet until i have the whole thing sorted. I also don't know if it fits with the kit parts. I designed it with the rear upper deck. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rich_f 233 Posted October 13, 2020 Hmm - so I might have to buy the rest of your rear kit too! Or I could try making a brace out of some frp plate I have here to go over the existing rear shock tower, rather than replace it entirely. I'll have to use longer screws and remove some plastic from the upper arms to about for the extra thickness, or swap them for ball ends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 15, 2020 Seems if you order just versatile plastic and no PA12 material Shapeways tutns around in about a week. Bonus! All trimmed, reamed and tapped Arms and bumper on first The arms are pretty much right. I forgot to account for the 2mm wheelbase adjustmrnt i added so the e clip shafts came up short. I counterbored the larger pivot lug with a 5.1 drill to let the e clip in on the inboard end, but i am not expecting it to be super robust. I also found that the thicker webs i put on this catch the steering arms on compression a bit. I can trim these to suit, but i have a redesign in mind. In fact, i have two: Firstly a straight repro arm with no adjustment, but trimmed to clear the steering arms, and a second version with the wheelbase adjustment accounting for the e clip with a larger counterbored lug, and also maybe a few mm wider for better suspension. I am running a 7mm thick hex even on my fairly narrow 306 shell. I could definitely add 2-3 to the arm length for use with a thinner hex. The nice thing is that the outcome of these arms is what i wanted; they have almost no slop. More later..... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 15, 2020 Onto the front tower. I had to revise the mounting block to pull the tower back a few mm and that made the access for the mounting screws to the gearcase tricky. It just worked, but I different shape tower and block are needed before I offer them for sale. The new block position worked, because everything clears now, including the camber link ball screws. Here's the rear view The mounting screws are hard to package and install because you can see I've put the screws holding the tower to the block pretty much in line with them. The revised version has wider mounting points for the top tower screws. One thing I found is that the body posts are now about 3-4mm higher than they were on the original. I have to drop the body pin by one notch (3.5mm) to get the body height right, so the revised version also needs lower body post mounts. The mounting parts themselves work perfectly though, which is great because they were a ****** to model! Because of the taller body posts the shocks mounted on the ends gave too low ride height. I like using this more inboard postion rather than the actual mounts because it gives the shocks slightly better geometry. Anyway, the standard setup for these shocks from the manual is to have a single o ring inside to shorten them, so I stripped the dampers and pulled them out, and now it sits nicely. I just needs a thicker preload clip to take up the slack and add the right amount of preload. The ride height is around 6.5-7 front and rear. And this is the whole chassis: I took it out for a spin before dark and it handles so nicely. The tighter front end is noticeable. It tracks straight and responds really crisply, and there's really good grip. It's lovely! Really pleased with how these parts came out. I will do some more work on them and put them on Shapeways and let Fibrelyte know which files to cut from if someone orders the carbon parts. The current list of things to do is: Front Tower: - Reshape shock tower to drop the body post mounts by 3mm, and reshape mounting block to suit. - New mounting block with wider top mounts to make gearbox screw access easy. - 15mm spacers for people wishing to use the proper shock mount holes - Enlarge the motor wire routing hole to a slot to pass both wires through Steering Arms: - Shorten the pivot centres 2.5mm all round to give more arm clearance without messing up the leverage ratio of the servo Front Arms: - Redo current design to trim back web on trailing edge to clear steering arms. Ditch adjustability and do a straight repro set - Develop the first design with 2.5mm wider stance, wider shock mountings, retain adjustability with reinforced bosses to suit. Rear Tower: - Add some cut outs and a centre hole to mount the antenna mount from the kit - Spacers for shock mounting (I happened to have some alloy ones spare that were spot on) - Shaped washers for body posts Body Posts: - Design some new body posts to use the touring car standard directly over the rear axle line, and reaching forward from the shock tower to the 'bumper' position so I can swap bodies more easily. What do you think? 5 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmine A 2046 Posted October 15, 2020 WHAT do I think?? Well done doesn't begin to describe it! What you're doing almost makes me want to get a FF-01 instead of an 03, just for the well tuned GOODIES! 😊 ..... Unless you're planning on tweaking a FF-03 next. 😉 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRx718 4470 Posted October 16, 2020 Great work; really doing it some justice! You know that the original FRP decks stand out like a sore thumb now though? They definitely need carbon fibre-ing! Looks almost possible to build a continuous upper deck, linking front and rear bulkheads together? Utterly pointless but would be serious bling factor 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wtcc5 4896 Posted October 16, 2020 Awesome to see you are so active with re-engineering this car! I wish we could race together one day! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 16, 2020 12 hours ago, ChrisRx718 said: Great work; really doing it some justice! You know that the original FRP decks stand out like a sore thumb now though? They definitely need carbon fibre-ing! Looks almost possible to build a continuous upper deck, linking front and rear bulkheads together? Utterly pointless but would be serious bling factor It would look nice but i like the original parts. 1 hour ago, wtcc5 said: Awesome to see you are so active with re-engineering this car! I wish we could race together one day! Thanks dude! Would be fun to run cars together for sure. Who knows when that might be ok? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 19, 2020 Couple of little things. Firstly i manahed to bag a brand new gearcase off ebay. It wasn't cheap, but given i am miles off getting a repro 3d printed case right in CAD and the current unfinished model priced at over $50 on Shapeways, i felt it was ok value. Every hole got tapped for machine screws so hopefully this will last, despite its age. Whilst i had it all apart i trimmed the arm flanges with my dremmel to clear the steering I also drilled and tapped a hole in the rear tower so i could mount the antenna holder I raced on saturday and during practice i gave the FF01 a run, and it was running really nice. Only managed a couple of laps, but it was much morebalanced than the FF03. Now it's cold it seems the FF03 just has no rear grip no matter what i do. The FF01 just drove on its Ride ETS tyres. Granted it was nowhere near as fast (6.4 vs 4.1 gearing will do that), but i was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to handle on track, especially given how relatively softly sprung it is. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmine A 2046 Posted October 19, 2020 I'd be happy with those results. You're reengineering a deep out of production Car - and doing quite well at that! It was good that you had a FF-03 there for comparison. I'm spitballing here, but if cold weather is taking the grip out of the rubber Tires, maybe you could try foam? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderDragonCy 7881 Posted October 19, 2020 10 hours ago, Carmine A said: I'd be happy with those results. You're reengineering a deep out of production Car - and doing quite well at that! It was good that you had a FF-03 there for comparison. I'm spitballing here, but if cold weather is taking the grip out of the rubber Tires, maybe you could try foam? Thanks. We aren't allowed to run foams and everyone else is running fine on rubber. I think the issue is well used 32 and 34 compound tyres. I have managed to find some 28s, but no one has any sorex 20 or sweep 24 which is what i am going to need if i do any more. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
