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ThunderDragonCy

Thunders FF01 Bandwagon Jumping

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Raced the FF01 again today. After last week going softer at the front helping things i tried @wtcc5 setup of the 53163 blue front and red rear. It was super hot today, but despite trying a few tyre options this setup didn't work for me. It was generating understeer, so my feeling was the rear wasn't stiff enough. Unfortunately i didn't have the middle yellow 53163 springs with me to try. 

Running out of time i went back to last weeks' setup of 53440 red front and 53163 blue rear, but still picked up a little understeer, but it worked. Between racing my TB03 in early heats i added a thin preload collar at the rear. This seemed to be the key as i rolled the FF01 on heat 3 and it was spot on. Really nice, really easy to drive, and i drove an almost faultless heat to a 14 lap 314 seconds, which was 3 seconds slower than last week! However it was so hot today and tyres were going off a bit so I decided to give my TB03 another run. Although i had possibly been a little conservative in places i don't think i have ever driven a cleaner heat, so i don't think i had any more time in the car today. 

I have a few weeks off racing now, but i am keen to work on a softer front setup for better traction and get those caster c hubs made. Should be a few seconds in those. 

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Practice day at the club, so I used the time to try some ideas. One thing I felt I needed was more front traction. Under acceleration the car kind of bounces and skips a bit. I wanted to try a softer front end, so during the week I put 300 oil in the front dampers and the softest 53163 springs on the front. I ended up putting long eyelets on the shocks because the springs allowed so much droop. Remember I run +2mm TRF eyelets normally so this was +4mm on my usual setup. And my carbon tower doesn't have the shock holes quite right because if was the prototype. 

Hopefully better for traction? 

Quick shakedown revealed very snatchy steering and not very nice handling! That did mean j had a lot of front grip though and the extra droop did seem to bring better traction on power. I needed to even out the grip front to rear.

I only have two sets of 4 matched  springs ; 53440 yellow medium, which would be too hard, and some random flour red springs that came on the car. They look Tamiya, but they are stiffer than the 53163 flour red springs. More like the red from 53440 (which are harder than the blue from 53163). Anyway, I gave them a go and adjusted the preload packers to get good ride height, and this seemed good. Remember I am still running staggered tyres; 34 front, 32 rear. I am going to see if I can get it running with same front and rear at some point. 

The handling was definitely going the right way, but I had to stop when the spur gear cover finally cracked through. 

Plan for the next few weeks is rebud the dampers again. I found they use the original 2 hole black pistons those pink dampers came with. I have some spare 3 hole TRF pistons so I am going to rebuild with those and 300 oil front and rear and see how that goes. As for the broken part, I will model up a replacement in CAD next week and add it to my growing order for 3D printed parts. If any of you FF01 runners out there want one, let me. Should only cost about £5 plus postage.

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On a work trip on my own. As i knew i would have plenty of time in the evenings, i stashed the FF01 and TB03 dampers in my bag along with a couple of tools and some oil. Tonight was the turn of the FF01 dampers

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Although these are very well used originals that came on my car when i bought it, they're the same as the recently rereleased TA03 Low Friction Dampers. They are a nice thing, but somewhat limited ultimately by still needing cva preload collars instead of threaded adjustment, and using the cva damper pistons too. I can't say i am bothered about the preooad collars, but now i am racing it i am looking for better damping and more traction. I had some 53573 TRF pistons in the spares box, so jn they went. After last weekends experiment i gave gone with quite light 300 oil front and rear. Front for traction under power, rear because it's so light. We'll see how it handles in a few weeks.

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3D print delivery! Most importantly was my attempt at a replacement gear cover. 

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It needed a bit of trimming, and the screw nearest the camera the hole was a bit off, but it's screwed down tight. Looking forward to giving it a test. I thickened the screw holes into bosses so hopefully it will last.

I also got version 2 of my caster c hubs with bearings. These ones fitted perfectly and are so smooth.

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Back at the track on saturday. Looking forward to testing them out.

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Will you be adding the C-hubs to your Shapeways shop? Would like to get a set :)

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6 hours ago, Tizer said:

Will you be adding the C-hubs to your Shapeways shop? Would like to get a set :)

Sure, once i have tested them this weekend and i am happy with them.

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On 9/15/2021 at 9:14 AM, Tizer said:

Will you be adding the C-hubs to your Shapeways shop? Would like to get a set :)

Aren’t mine good enough? :(

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On 8/18/2021 at 12:13 PM, ThunderDragonCy said:

On a work trip on my own. As i knew i would have plenty of time in the evenings, i stashed the FF01 and TB03 dampers in my bag along with a couple of tools and some oil. Tonight was the turn of the FF01 dampers

20210818_180315.thumb.jpg.41dc6f4300dcd7476c32d15261219ac6.jpg

Although these are very well used originals that came on my car when i bought it, they're the same as the recently rereleased TA03 Low Friction Dampers. They are a nice thing, but somewhat limited ultimately by still needing cva preload collars instead of threaded adjustment, and using the cva damper pistons too. I can't say i am bothered about the preooad collars, but now i am racing it i am looking for better damping and more traction. I had some 53573 TRF pistons in the spares box, so jn they went. After last weekends experiment i gave gone with quite light 300 oil front and rear. Front for traction under power, rear because it's so light. We'll see how it handles in a few weeks.

Some of the best shocks tamiya ever made IMO I have a set on my TA-02 nissan nismo chassis... Love them have the extra springs that came with the kit the stiffer ones up front & a bit softer ones on rear

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7 hours ago, wtcc5 said:

Aren’t mine good enough? :(

Didn't see those yet! I'll check it out :) I don't care who makes them, as long as they work haha

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On 8/18/2021 at 7:13 PM, ThunderDragonCy said:

 

they're the same as the recently rereleased TA03 Low Friction Dampers. 

Didn't know Tamiya had rereleased the dampers? 

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3 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

53155. Everywhere at the moment.

O right I got confused with the 53280 and the other 49*** sets. 

Yep the pink dampers are nice👍

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8 hours ago, Tizer said:

Didn't see those yet! I'll check it out :) I don't care who makes them, as long as they work haha

I was just fooling around :P If you drove the original Tamiya ones, then you know how my will drive. Cys design has less caster and will behave differently.

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13 hours ago, wtcc5 said:

I was just fooling around :P If you drove the original Tamiya ones, then you know how my will drive. Cys design has less caster and will behave differently.

I went 4 degrees on these after you told me the tamiya ones were that setting. First race with them today.

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Ran a couple of heats with the FF01 today. Took a bit of dialling in with the new damper setup. New 34s front just made it oversteer everywhere, so put used on and it evened out. Found the servo saver was notchy so couldn't trim the steering. Alloy arm from spares to the rescue. Ran one heat with the random flouro red springs front, but i switched them off the rear because even with no preload it runs 7mm rear vs 5.5 front. Put the blue 53163 on the rear for 5.5 rear height. I went a bit conservative on dual rate due to the servo arm change. Car was super easy to drive, but was a bit understeery, and turned wide through a couple of turns. 

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Decided to run it again, and tested a few things between heats. Ended up putting the matching flouro reds back on rhe rear, which helped rotation, and increased the dual rate until i could power through medium speed corners. Much better! Made a mistake in traffic which cost me half a lap, but still ran a 14 lap heat. The 4 deg c hubs and new damper and springs did make the front super nice, but i think i need new tyres front and rear to really go faster.

20210918_152706

 

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Last race of the outdoor season, and i wanted to try some grippier tyres, but my only option was my Rush32 all round. I think my other tyres must be pretty done because this was pretty great straight away, actually with a lot of understeer. I left the neon reds front, and went 53440 yellow medium rears which improved things, and a thin preload clip to raise the rear and it was pretty sweet. 

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After a slightly frustrating couple of heats with the TA02 I put down the FF01 for heat 3 and it was just lovely. Because of my scrappy first heats i was last off so got caught up in traffic. Couple of mistakes, but ran a nice steady 14 lapper. 

Heat 4 i think i got my neutral throttle slightly off when turning the car on as i was getting slightly odd braking in the big stops, but it was another fast, solid race. I am still getting a bit of skip and bounce on the front under power so maybe i need to go even softer on the front with more droop?

Was really looking forward to heat 5. We don't normally do 5 but we squeezed one in. I didn't have a full battery for this, but my old core rc shorty was fine warming up then almost dead off the line. So frustrating! After a couple of laps i stopped, ran down and grabbed my reedy that had done a race, but was great once again and i ran another 8 laps at nice pace.

So, the FF01 was wonderful as usual, and now i know it responds to the Rushs all round i think a new set of those and a bit of testing of some more supple front setups. I think i could still try some more steering angle so i can power understeer through the corners a little tighter. That seems to be the way the fast guys in FF02s run theirs.

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Not run any cars for a few weeks. The club moved indoors and from afternoons to evenings and this just isn't very convenient for me, so the motivation to drive has kinda gone. Anyway, youngest wanted to go and skate with mates at the park this evening so I wanted to hasng around given its dark now. Wife suggested taking some RCs! Remembered I had rigged the 306 last winter for exactly this reason, so I put it on the FF01 with the rally wheels. 

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Whizzed it around the bike track and all over really. Had lots of fun. It really is such a lovely thing to drive the FF01. 

Off topic, but I also skidded the RR03 around the gravel car park too. That was great, but I think it needs some spot lights too! 

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Having read the manual properly recently, and having been a little frustrated with the setup at the end of last season, I went back to pretty much kit spec in the pink dampers. The black low friction pistons instead of the TRF ones, and 1 hole front, 3 holes rear as per the manual. Built with 400 oil both ends. I used some blue springs I got with the TA04 on the front, and the flouro red ones I got on the car originally at the back. 

I ran it today at the track for the first time this year on pretty new Sweep28s. It was absolutely delightful! It's so nice this thing. Was a little bit understeery, and I wanted a little more rotation, so I put the yellow medium 53440 springs on the back and went back out and it was really nice. Could probably still do with a little more front grip, but as a starting point for the upcoming race season, this is really good. 

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Ran the FF01 at the track again today against the TA04 and TB03. 

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The TA04 was improved, but it's still not a patch on this for ease of driving. This was just great. Still needs a bit more rotation, so I put some white hard 53440 springs on the rear, which definitely helped, but I think the better solution will be to go up to a 2 hole piston read and back to a slightly softer spring. I think it will be a little more consistent. 

As I can't get to a lot of races this year I think I had decided to commit to racing the FF01 throughout, and sell the TA04. The FF01 is just nicer! 

Bit of tweaking to do then. 

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Decided to get a few things done straight away. Rebuilt the rear dampers. Thought I had tamiya pistons, but I used the tapered yeah racing ones. Rears were 4 hole, so must have 2 hole in the front. Anyway, found the spare and put 3 hole V pistons in. Also swapped the TRF V parts from some spare dampers onto these as the plastics were looking pretty bad

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Then I remembered I bought the wrong size ceramic diff balls for my TA04, but they are the right size for the FF01, so the diff got a little upgrade

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And finally, I remembered I have some fairly new universals on my rally FF01, so I swapped them for the very well used Tamiya versions that came with this when I bought it. 

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Should make everything nice and smooth and hopefully the stiffer rear damping will improve the rotation a bit. 

 

 

 

 

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Raced for the first time outdoors this year. Having sold the TA04 (for a horribly trivial amount) because race times generally don't suit, any time I can get to a race this year I am running the FF01. 

It was pretty warm today, so I swapped onto the Rush32s from the 28s previously run. I got some practice in and despite the rear damper change the balance still had a lot of rear grip. Given the lack of adjustment on the chassis (first port of call is usually roll centres and anti roll bars for balance changes), I softened the front springs to 53440 yellow. Helped a bit, but still not ideal. Realised the steering needed evening up left to right, and also added more angle on the dual rate. Finally added some rear ride height and it was definitely better, but still didn't have a lot of rotation. Still, balance was good to neutral so let's go racing. 

I was lined up in the slower of the two iconic heats, setting off 3 from 6 (we race time trial effectively). The car was a little understeery, but I kept it neat, and the other drivers were a bit all over the place. Uncharacteristically I was pretty good through the traffic, got out in front and kept going. Lapped a few cars - again neatly which was a surprise! - and kept it on the track. Found my rhythm and didn't need marshalling at all. The beeper went and I won! 14 laps in 307 seconds best my previous PB in the FF01 by 2 seconds. Yes! 

Round 2 and I set off first being fastest in round 1. 2nd guy properly set off after me, but again I kept it neat, stuck to my line and ultimately pulled away. This time the car felt even better and I began to get lines dialed in. I was clean in traffic, and the other drivers began to get out of my way which was very good of them. I won again, and the beep went just as I came out of the last corner. I knew I had just missed out on my first 15 lapper, but 14 in 302. I was so happy! My PB is 14 in 301 in my TB03R, so to get that close in my FF01 was just brilliant. 

For round 3 I was a little nervous, but keen to have a go. The car immediately felt really hooked up and fast, putting power down really well. I think the track must have gripped up and I have never experienced that so markedly before. Unfortunately it bit me on lap 3. I held it open all the way through the fast sweeper and grip rolled off the top of the track. I was marshalled quickly enough and was still leading, but PB was out the window. I then went a little steady into the fast turn a lap later and slid off. Get it together! I was back in traffic, but the car still felt brilliant and I caught and passed everyone ahead of me and cracked on. Finally my battery failed near the end, the car going into pow voltage mode for the last two laps. Seems everyone else was struggling too was I still ended up winning on a 13 in 305. Kinda cool that I would have still run 14 with 2 marshals if the battery hadn't gone. 

I packed up and left after this as I didn't have another battery. My FF01 runs shorties and now I am racing it all 4 rounds I pressed a couple of old shorties into service, and both failed. I am super happy the car is running so well, and I will only get to a couple more races this summer. I am disposing of the old batteries and will either get another shorty, or see about 3D printing some new battery retainers so I can use my full size lipos. Given minimum 3D print order is about same as a battery, depends a bit on what other ideas I have for 3d printed parts for other things. 

I am not even sure I will change setup. Sure it might be nice with a little more rotation on turn in, but it was so easy to drive I think I will leave it. I suspect my extra speed came from new tyres. Last year I was running pretty old tyres by the time I started racing the FF01. I am also under no illusions about my status. In the fast iconic heat I would have been 3rd at best with skms of the guys regularly smashing 15 lappers. Sure they are 4wd, but they are fast! 

Blimey. That's a lot of blather. Thanks for reading! 

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Great report!

The FF-01 made my father, @Quincy, @Sgt.Speirs and me smile today, too.

Great to hear you found such a nice setup! Would you mind writing down your setup? :)

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@wtcc5 I saw your Facebook story. It looked super fun!

Not sure how helpful my setup will be as I use 3d printed arms instead of kit versions which are wider than the kit items. However, here it is:

FF01 with FRP chassis and my own carbon top rear deck and carbon towers front and rear. Eagle racing aluminium front and rear arm mounting blocks. My own arms (4mm wider track front, 10mm wider rear, rear overall with maintained using 5mm thick allow hexes ), my own c hubs with 4 deg Caster which have same geometry as tamiya versions, all upper arm camber links, front universals from CC01. 

Rush 32 BTCC tyres all round

Alfa 155 dtm shell with proto form speed rear wing

Front shocks tamiya pink low friction, yellow medium springs from 53440, 400 oil, yeah racing 2 hole V pistons with faster rebound than compression, built full length, 5.5mm ride height

Rear shocks tamiya pink low friction, blue hard springs from 53440, 400 oil, yeah racing 3 hole V pistons with faster rebound than compression, built with 1 o ring inside to shorten, 7mm ride height

0.5 deg camber front, 1.5deg rear

0.5 deg toe out front, 2 deg toe in rear

66/27 gearing on a iconic class brushed motor

Tend to run shorty lipo offset to right to balance out motor weight. 

Edited by ThunderDragonCy
Edited couple of mistakes
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A Saturday freed up this coming weekend so decided I will race. Haven't run the FF01 for months, so I wanted to give it a shakedown, and also compare it to my FF01-LA development car. 

20230502_120614

I had a couple of great races with it last year, but today, in lovely conditions it just understeered. No rotation at all, and the front jumping under acceleration (which it has always done) seemed more noticeable. Partly because the Long Arm car was so calm on power relatively, but also because I stripped my seconded diff spline in about 10 runs, after the original lasted a whole season of racing. 

I tried flipping the rear knuckles for toe out, and that helped a bit, but not as much as I might have expected. I have tried longer droop, softer front suspension before but it didn't seem to solve the chatter on acceleration. My FF03 used to do it too and I never got to the bottom of that either. Maybe it's my driving style? 

So, what to do before Saturday? Well, I have some spare of my 3d printed c hubs, so a new set of those and some new wheel bearings to tighten things up. I have some Top Force Evo pressure plates, so can rebuild the diff.

Setup-wise, really not sure. It's very easy to drive, but noticeably slow to get to opening the throttle exiting corners. I have a 3d printed rear anti roll bar bracket I could try, but need to make a bar. That feels like the next step to liven up the rear and give more grip to the front. 

Any suggestions welcome! 

 

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