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esmuz

Kyosho dampers on Tamiya Dt-03

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Hi, I know this is weird, but I am using a dt-03 chassis as a base to build something different based on a kyosho Tomahawk body

And I am looking for some nice looking and also usable aluminium oil dampers. I thought about using the Ultima re-re or Optima re-re but are too expensive for this build, so I came out with these: 

https://www.rcmart.com/xtra-speed-aluminum-front-damper-set-for-kyosho-optima-2016-1-10-buggy-xs-om27001-00068009

https://www.rcmart.com/xtra-speed-aluminum-rear-damper-set-for-kyosho-optima-2016-1-10-buggy-xs-om27002-00068010

I really love these replicas from the original Golden Turbo optima, but I also have lots of doubts: 

 

  1.  Do you guys think these dampers are good enough or just a stupid copy? I
  2.  I noticed the new Turbo Optima re-re has a different ones.. These replicas have a small c ring as the mechanism to retain the o-rings as the original ones had.. which seems quite outdated for today standards. Were these dampers reliable? 
  3.  As I asume these dampers, as a replica won't be top notch on feeling I was planning to replace the included o-rings with the red o-rings that new Turbo Op are using today, will they fit? 
  4.  Cheapo Dt-03 don't come with pivot balls for dampers, just some kind of flat screws with lots of play.  With these dampers, on the Dt-03 body should I use pivot balls? Any idea of the ball size on the original Optimas? 

 

Any help is welcome. 

Thanks! 

 

 

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REMIND ME and I will measure the diameter on the Gold Edition pivot balls.

Subtle Hint:  REMIND ME (like, via frequent nagging PMs)

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On 8/31/2020 at 2:47 PM, esmuz said:

Do you guys think these dampers are good enough or just a stupid copy?

Others on this forum have stated that those Xtra Speed shocks are good.  I have some myself, but not yet used any in my cars.  But I plan to try them out at some point.

On 8/31/2020 at 2:47 PM, esmuz said:

I noticed the new Turbo Optima re-re has a different ones.. These replicas have a small c ring as the mechanism to retain the o-rings as the original ones had.. which seems quite outdated for today standards. Were these dampers reliable?

The original Kyosho Gold Shocks (part numbers 5001 (short) and 5002 (long)) were and still are considered to be very good shocks - some of Kyosho's best.  I have them in multiple vintage cars and they all work very well and smooth and leak very little.  The c-ring retainer works well and isn't very hard to remove using a small jeweler's flat bladed screwdriver.  The harder part is getting the stupid o-rings and shaft guides out of the shock body!  I end up damaging at least one shaft guide in the process.  Other than that, they are fine to work on.  The Xtra Speed shocks use the exact same design as the original Kyosho Golds.

On 8/31/2020 at 2:47 PM, esmuz said:

As I asume these dampers, as a replica won't be top notch on feeling I was planning to replace the included o-rings with the red o-rings that new Turbo Op are using today, will they fit? 

They will fit fine as I believe they are the exact same size.  The Kyosho ORG3 red or black o-rings are designed for 3mm shock shafts, the same as the Xtra Speed shock shafts.  I'm not sure the Kyosho o-rings would be any better than the ones supplied with the shocks, however.

On 8/31/2020 at 2:47 PM, esmuz said:

Cheapo Dt-03 don't come with pivot balls for dampers, just some kind of flat screws with lots of play.  With these dampers, on the Dt-03 body should I use pivot balls? Any idea of the ball size on the original Optimas?

Looks like the Xtra Speed shocks do not come with balls for the rod ends.  I believe the Kyosho 5.8mm OD / 3mm ID balls, like the Kyosho part #OT-32 5.8mm aluminum balls or Kyosho part #W0201H 5.8mm hard aluminum balls (I think those have 3mm ID, but not positive), will fit the Xtra Speed rod ends.   The Kyosho part #1284 5.8mm Pillow Balls will also fit if you can screw them into the suspension arms of the DT-03.

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God, thank you so much for taking time to share your knowledge, I really appreciate it. The Xtra speed are on their way. 

Regarding Rod end balls, I realized in the DT-03 the dampers go through the suspension arm, I mean, not in the front as many other classic buggies did, so there is a lot of play, should I keep trying trying to use balls, or just a washer? 

Thanks again!

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To reduce the play of the lower shock ends in both the Z-direction (up/down) as well as X (forward/backward) as much as possible, I'd buy and use the balls with the Xtra Speed shocks instead of using the collar (BD4) or stepped screw (BD1) that Tamiya uses in the instructions.  Just the 3x22mm (BA11) screw going through the ball would work in the front and swapping the 3x14mm (BD1) for a 3x14mm machine thread screw or Pillow Ball I mentioned before would work for the rear.  If the ball slides on the screw a little bit, you can add washers to eliminate the play.  Tamiya's shock ends are not cupped like Kyosho shock ends, so they won't hold a ball in place.  The Kyosho (and Xtra Speed, too, apparently) shock ends actually hold the ball while allowing it to rotate.  You have to use pliers to snap the ball into the shock end, then it rotates freely once in place.  Since I haven't tested the fitting of the 5.8mm ball into the Xtra Speed shock ends, if you find out that the Xtra Speed shock ends don't work well with the balls, you can always buy Kyosho 5.8mm shock ends for a guaranteed fit to the ball.  There are various lengths available.  Kyosho part #W5019, #W5015, #97038 and probably more choices.  I have a feeling that the Xtra Speed ends will work fine, however.  They seem to have copied the original Kyosho Golds pretty closely.  The only thing they missed on was the anodizing color.  It's a little too pinkish.  I wish there was a way to alter the anodizing color without ruining it.

image.thumb.png.a7af75f70fbeec56920dc40877982706.png

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Oh one other thing:  If you don't have a pair of shock pliers (or other type of non-scratch pliers), I'd highly recommend it for building new shocks.  The pliers are designed to hold the shock shaft without gouging the smooth shaft in the process.  I use Tamiya non-scratch pliers part #74061 (longer handle for more holding pressure plus works for clutches) and #74065 (more like regular pliers but not as much holding power unless you have kung fu grip).   Expensive, but will not ruin a new shaft while screwing on the shock end.  Other companies make pliers too (usually out of softer aluminum) but I've not used them.

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On 9/4/2020 at 1:39 AM, Champ85 said:

To reduce the play of the lower shock ends in both the Z-direction (up/down) as well as X (forward/backward) as much as possible, I'd buy and use the balls with the Xtra Speed shocks instead of using the collar (BD4) or stepped screw (BD1) that Tamiya uses in the instructions.  Just the 3x22mm (BA11) screw going through the ball would work in the front and swapping the 3x14mm (BD1) for a 3x14mm machine thread screw or Pillow Ball I mentioned before would work for the rear.  If the ball slides on the screw a little bit, you can add washers to eliminate the play.  Tamiya's shock ends are not cupped like Kyosho shock ends, so they won't hold a ball in place.  The Kyosho (and Xtra Speed, too, apparently) shock ends actually hold the ball while allowing it to rotate.  You have to use pliers to snap the ball into the shock end, then it rotates freely once in place.  Since I haven't tested the fitting of the 5.8mm ball into the Xtra Speed shock ends, if you find out that the Xtra Speed shock ends don't work well with the balls, you can always buy Kyosho 5.8mm shock ends for a guaranteed fit to the ball.  There are various lengths available.  Kyosho part #W5019, #W5015, #97038 and probably more choices.  I have a feeling that the Xtra Speed ends will work fine, however.  They seem to have copied the original Kyosho Golds pretty closely.  The only thing they missed on was the anodizing color.  It's a little too pinkish.  I wish there was a way to alter the anodizing color without ruining it.

image.thumb.png.a7af75f70fbeec56920dc40877982706.png

Thank you so much, very precise and valuable information. 

I forgot to mention that I also acquired the carbon shock towers, which by the pictures seem to include some kind of balls, not sure if these balls will suit the XtraSpeed shock end, but I'll try. 

spacer.pngspacer.png

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On 9/4/2020 at 1:45 AM, Champ85 said:

Oh one other thing:  If you don't have a pair of shock pliers (or other type of non-scratch pliers), I'd highly recommend it for building new shocks.  The pliers are designed to hold the shock shaft without gouging the smooth shaft in the process.  I use Tamiya non-scratch pliers part #74061 (longer handle for more holding pressure plus works for clutches) and #74065 (more like regular pliers but not as much holding power unless you have kung fu grip).   Expensive, but will not ruin a new shaft while screwing on the shock end.  Other companies make pliers too (usually out of softer aluminum) but I've not used them.

I use a folded old bicycle rubber tire between the shft and pliers,  but those Tamiya pliers look great, thanks for the advice.

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On 9/3/2020 at 10:34 AM, esmuz said:

I realized in the DT-03 the dampers go through the suspension arm,

This sometimes means the shock spring catches, if you fit larger bore shocks on the front.

 

2020-09-11_12-14-44

 

The turnbuckle set (54572) helps,  but the rears need to run at a diagonal, fitting to the rear of the hub, instead of the front , as they caught to otherwise.

2020-09-11_12-18-24

 

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What about the re-re 47455 VQS (2020) Hi-Cap Damper Set?

Will they work on the DT-03? 

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On 9/10/2020 at 7:38 PM, Wooders28 said:

This sometimes means the shock spring catches, if you fit larger bore shocks on the front.

Is it not possible to mount the front top shock to the front of the shock tower instead of the back?

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40 minutes ago, Champ85 said:

Is it not possible to mount the front top shock to the front of the shock tower instead of the back?

The problem ,was the shocks go through the upper wishbone on the stock set up, so there's a max diameter until it fouls. With the turnbuckles, this isn't a problem.

On the rear, the shock would be at the wrong angle, you need the shock to run square, otherwise you'll just bend the shock shaft. You could maybe spacer the bottom out, but my money is that the bottom wishbone would have enough meat to support the extra leverage on the extended shock mount.

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On 8/31/2020 at 7:47 PM, esmuz said:

Hi, I know this is weird, but I am using a dt-03 chassis as a base to build something different based on a kyosho Tomahawk body

And I am looking for some nice looking and also usable aluminium oil dampers. I thought about using the Ultima re-re or Optima re-re but are too expensive for this build, so I came out with these: 

https://www.rcmart.com/xtra-speed-aluminum-front-damper-set-for-kyosho-optima-2016-1-10-buggy-xs-om27001-00068009

https://www.rcmart.com/xtra-speed-aluminum-rear-damper-set-for-kyosho-optima-2016-1-10-buggy-xs-om27002-00068010

I really love these replicas from the original Golden Turbo optima, but I also have lots of doubts: 

 

  1.  Do you guys think these dampers are good enough or just a stupid copy? I
  2.  I noticed the new Turbo Optima re-re has a different ones.. These replicas have a small c ring as the mechanism to retain the o-rings as the original ones had.. which seems quite outdated for today standards. Were these dampers reliable? 
  3.  As I asume these dampers, as a replica won't be top notch on feeling I was planning to replace the included o-rings with the red o-rings that new Turbo Op are using today, will they fit? 
  4.  Cheapo Dt-03 don't come with pivot balls for dampers, just some kind of flat screws with lots of play.  With these dampers, on the Dt-03 body should I use pivot balls? Any idea of the ball size on the original Optimas? 

 

Any help is welcome. 

Thanks! 

 

 

I have them on my dt02 so will fit the 03 perfectly. They are the perfect size. The dampers are fantastic as long as you replace the black o rings they come with to tamiya red o rings.  The black ones are very hard and leak easily. Mine work perfectly with tamiya medium oil and no leaks.  

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14 hours ago, slimleeroy said:

I have them on my dt02 so will fit the 03 perfectly. They are the perfect size. The dampers are fantastic as long as you replace the black o rings they come with to tamiya red o rings.  The black ones are very hard and leak easily. Mine work perfectly with tamiya medium oil and no leaks.  

Thanks! I still have to mount them, I am waiting for some 5.8mm kyosho balls that I already ordered. Did you use them? 

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