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Racing by post - Round 44 track is up. We're going back to Vålerbanen!

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I got my first attempt.....

LOVE the Track! 😁 But my poor M05. Front Tyres are not only worn smooth, but have HOLES, with exposed Foam!! 😞 

I'm in the Storm before the Calm, as it were... Still waiting for the BIG Check, about 2-4 more weeks. 

She did unsurprisingly BAD, but I was outside running an RC - so it was a GOOD Day!!! 

Next..... Prepare the TT-02SR TT RRRR GT4!

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8 hours ago, jupitertwo said:

Nice! I had a brief bash with my eldest yesterday: DT03, Optima and XV01T.  I didn’t intend to do laps, and a good thing too. Two batteries decided it was too cold, and made the esc go recovery mode after a minute or two. XV01T decided it was too cold and so dethreaded a ball connector. DT03 went on like a champ though,  however at 5 years old blasting about is more fun than laps.

kinda curious as to what everyone else’s experiences are with the cold and batteries these days. Does cold weather make the current draw a bit weird? After the session both batteries tested for 8v, so not low.

might get out today,  but the forecast for next weekend is much more appealing 

Yes and no...... :D

Yes I have noticed lots of issues with the LiPos in the cold. Very erratic behaviour and poor performance. To the point we have abandoned them! On top of their PITA status of having to charge before use.

However we ran for an hour yesterday with all our buggies using NiCd or NiMh packs (which are stored charged and ready to use at a moment's notice) and managed to get 20-30 mins per 3300mah pack despite driving on ice and snow and spending the entire time wheelspinning. Middle mudlets DT02 got 30 mins run time from a 3300mah Overlander NiMh with a Reedy 19t (17t pinion) and spent the entire time wheelspinning (not exaggerating). I even managed 20 minutes on a 3600 mah Absima NiMh with a 13T Dyna Run Super Touring motor, again, entire time revved to the max. 

The only car with major problems was youngest mudlets DT03 Aqroshot. It suffered random slow downs and speed ups with its power. However, it is the only one of our cars that is not well protected. The ESC, Receiver and battery were literally sopping wet and covered in snow. Whereas the Thundershots, cougar and Sand Viper all remained perfectly dry inside despite an hour use in deep snow as their shells are very tight fits to their chassis/tub/undertray. The Aqroshot has a huge gap that allows all the water, dirt and snow to fly up off the wheels onto the electronics.

I also ran my Thundershot on a 20 year old Sanyo 8.4v 2000mah NICD last week, it also managed a respectable 15 minutes run time, revved to the max on ice/snow with the 13T Dyna run in -2c conditions.

So my conclusion is that for ice/snow driving you need good weatherproofing on your electronics bay/battery and you need old skool power. Our LiPos (and unprotected NiMhs) suck in the cold!!!! And you need lower gearing...... :)

 

 

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A neo frog body can be installed under the aqroshot body to keep everything dry!

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Just now, taffer said:

A neo frog body can be installed under the aqroshot body to keep everything dry!

Thanks mate, we desparately need something to fix that issue, the amount of water thrown up is causing all the velcro tape to work loose. Youngest Mudlet finished our ice race with her ESC and receiver dangling off the chassis as the velcro had fully detached. The battery tray was literally full of water!!! The Thundershots and Sand Viper in comparison were dry as a bone inside!

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I think for me there is some form of combination going on. I ran my TA07 today and had no battery related issues (a pinion related issue which came lose just after I finished a 5 minute run is another matter!).

The TA07 is open, but perhaps the body does some way to reducing wind chill vs the exposed Javelin body? :D 

When I came back in to the hobby I went the Lipo route. I've only got a couple of NiMhs, and those were just for going on holiday with to avoid any questions over lipos on planes. So I actually find NiMh charging more stressful, as i don't seem to know when they are done etc. Wheres Lipos seem to be much clearer (to me) to set, and happily alert when they're done. I've not found the delay to getting a car out too bad, given the faffing that goes on in getting them ready, finding/binding controllers etc. Though i do have a 200w quad charger, so perhaps that allieviates that somewhat!

Back on topic, the TA07 with 28R sorexs did ok in the chilly weather. Some grip, but quite a restricted turning circle. I don't think I helped myself with this track design, that lower loop I still haven't got my right line for. I have that point closest to where i stand (by a doorway for warmth!) so i find it hard to extend the loop to get round. Still, a reasonable lap count, though get the feeling this track will have the highest lap count so far?

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41 minutes ago, jupitertwo said:

I think for me there is some form of combination going on. I ran my TA07 today and had no battery related issues (a pinion related issue which came lose just after I finished a 5 minute run is another matter!).

The TA07 is open, but perhaps the body does some way to reducing wind chill vs the exposed Javelin body? :D 

When I came back in to the hobby I went the Lipo route. I've only got a couple of NiMhs, and those were just for going on holiday with to avoid any questions over lipos on planes. So I actually find NiMh charging more stressful, as i don't seem to know when they are done etc. Wheres Lipos seem to be much clearer (to me) to set, and happily alert when they're done. I've not found the delay to getting a car out too bad, given the faffing that goes on in getting them ready, finding/binding controllers etc. Though i do have a 200w quad charger, so perhaps that allieviates that somewhat!

Back on topic, the TA07 with 28R sorexs did ok in the chilly weather. Some grip, but quite a restricted turning circle. I don't think I helped myself with this track design, that lower loop I still haven't got my right line for. I have that point closest to where i stand (by a doorway for warmth!) so i find it hard to extend the loop to get round. Still, a reasonable lap count, though get the feeling this track will have the highest lap count so far?

I have a 20 yr old charger for our NiCd's/NiMh's - I fully discharge after use and then fully charge and store. So they are ready to use at a moments notice - ideal in UK climate where you may only have a narrow weather window for a postal race attempt (like 30 mins) :lol:

The LiPos in comparison a just a right PITA, stored at storage charge and having to be charged before use. Even with my 100w twin charger it is irrelevent, it still takes 40-50mins to charge my 4400-5000mah LiPos by which time I've either lost the good weather window or the kids have got bored and moved on to something less boring instead*..... so for us NiCd or NiMh is far superior to LiPo for practical use even if LiPo gives better performance when they are eventually charged.....AND to make matters worse, the LiPos have been very poor in cold weather so it is a win/win for old skool NiCd at this point for us :D

Anyway, I tried laying out the track on the lawn and sadly it doesn't fit. We have pot holes, drain covers or holes (from me removing shrubs) OR trees, tire piles, washing line supports or flower beds in the way - amazing how many obstacles there are when you come to lay a few markers down! so we are going to need to get down the rec ground to do this one. Not sure when lockdown will be lifted though? At this rate we could be looking at 2525........ :D

edit: *signifies a very early 80's, maybe even 70's kids TV program 'turn off TV and do something less broing instead'........ that was the slogan, can't for the life of me remember the actual program name now....anybody??

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15 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

 

edit: *signifies a very early 80's, maybe even 70's kids TV program 'turn off TV and do something less broing instead'........ that was the slogan, can't for the life of me remember the actual program name now....anybody??

That’ll be “Why Don’t You?” 😃

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Just now, Ministrone said:

That’ll be “Why Don’t You?” 😃

You star!!!!

I was racking my brains....

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44 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

Anyway, I tried laying out the track on the lawn and sadly it doesn't fit. We have pot holes, drain covers or holes (from me removing shrubs) OR trees, tire piles, washing line supports or flower beds in the way - amazing how many obstacles there are when you come to lay a few markers down! so we are going to need to get down the rec ground to do this one. Not sure when lockdown will be lifted though? At this rate we could be looking at 2525........ :D

Doh, that's a shame. I'd thought this one would fit. It's hard to know when they'll lift the restrictions isn't it. On one hand we want to get back out there, on the other we don't want them to do something that means it drags on and on.

If you can't run this one, can you refine my 1st suggestion in to something that isn't an *** to set up? :D Perhaps the ultimate 4x3m track?

I'm wondering if all this postal racing will give me the confidence when Covid is under control to head down to West London Racing's track  (when they're not there, ofc :p) From what I can make out it's open access to the track (but not the rostrum). Be fun to run a touring car on an area less than 6x4m!

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1 minute ago, jupitertwo said:

Doh, that's a shame. I'd thought this one would fit. It's hard to know when they'll lift the restrictions isn't it. On one hand we want to get back out there, on the other we don't want them to do something that means it drags on and on.

If you can't run this one, can you refine my 1st suggestion in to something that isn't an *** to set up? :D Perhaps the ultimate 4x3m track?

I'm wondering if all this postal racing will give me the confidence when Covid is under control to head down to West London Racing's track  (when they're not there, ofc :p) From what I can make out it's open access to the track (but not the rostrum). Be fun to run a touring car on an area less than 6x4m!

Don't worry @jupitertwo I'm hoping lockdown will be lifted soon!!! Yeah, your version 1 was easily fitted on the lawn and indeed youngest mudlet did a whole hour of attempts on it. She loved it even though we had a few arguments while trying to set it out..... :D

Sadly this version is a tad too big to fit on the flat bit of our lawn, which is not very big (we have a big garden but sadly a relatively tiny lawn!). Don't worry about it, if lockdown isn't lifted we'll just have to sit it out.

We've still got snow covering half the lawn despite not having any snow for a week! It has been so cold the snow from last weekend still hasn't melted. Kids have loved it, had great fun with snow/ice racing! :)

 

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We got in some good run time on the street in front of our house today as hoped. Nice sunny weather and warmer than yesterday at  minus 3 degrees. My elder son and I both used the TT02s we used in the stock class in the German Tamiya Euro Cup. This means a pretty basic setup with a Torque-Tuned motor and TBLE-02 running on NiMH batteries, with CVA super mini dampers  and front universals. 

Driving a 4WD touring car on tarmac was obviously a completely different experience to sliding around on ice and snow with the 2WD buggies yesterday. We managed to get some good runs in and it was nice to see that everybody got better the more they tries they had. In the end I just managed to beat my elder son with my last go, while my younger son put on a good show with the Thunder Blitz, the lower speed of the 380 motor making it easier to control round the tight corners, with good grip and steering for such a basic car. 

Postalische Racing Postalische Racing Postalische Racing

 

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On 2/10/2021 at 11:23 PM, Charles M said:

Hello, 

 

I've just discoverd this topic and this great idea.

I've just following this topic till now.

No easy in North of France with snowy time, but i've already all stuff to try to make a run.

image.png.6a43a6f0e62e075f7b997abd5445c3b6.pngimage.png.e95949b77a8b833aab1e4b1f2057afaf.png

IR lap counter

image.png.3a40cb9ce82fecb47716cbdcd6cac0e5.png

Small cones ( 3d Printed ) 

 

 

Big fan of France.

 

I like the Peugeot very much.

I will try to make a run tomorrow, not sure what car I will use yet.

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Wow, @Maelstrom and I thought we had bright colours on our shells! My middle daughter would love that car with the fluorescent yellow/blue shell :)

 

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10 hours ago, Carmine A said:

I got my first attempt.....

LOVE the Track! 😁 But my poor M05. Front Tyres are not only worn smooth, but have HOLES, with exposed Foam!! 😞 

 

OK, @Carmine Anow you are just pulling my leg aren't you????

Seriously? 

Maybe you need to buy Schumacher tyres cos' we're all still on the same tyres we've been running since last summer.... Most of our tyres are on 5000 laps and counting... :D

Youngest Mudlet came in the other day and looked at Turnips bald pin spikes on his Thundershot, held up her Thundershot with 'as new' Schumacher pin spikes that have been on her car since last April (and she'd just done another 350 laps on) and she shrugged and muttered something... I can't repeat what she said.... :D:lol::o

Edit: yeah, yeah, I know, we haven't won a round so maybe that is why our tyres last as we are not pushing anywhere near as hard as you guys but in all honesty we've had great fun, come close to quickest times but managed to keep our tyres intact. We simply can't afford to replace tyres on all our buggies for each round (badword, on some rounds we are entering 8 cars, that would cost £100 a round in tyres!), it would make it impossible to take part, so we'll live with lower placing and keep our tyre wear minimised. Even then we're all surprised by the tyre wear issue. None of us has witnessed anything like that wear, even running pin spikes on tarmac and wheelspinning and drifting them like crazy. As youngest Mudlet points out, the rec ground car park is only used by cars three or four times a year. The rest of the time it is gated off and locked. So it is pretty raw, rough tarmac. Yes it is mossy and greasy in winter but we did postal racing in summer on it when it was bone dry and we're still using those same tyres now???!!! I'm very confused. We're even running super soft sticky compound carpet tyres on the rec ground and they are still like new? Bizarre. Never thought surface could make so much difference. If anything, I'd have thought the opposite to you, that in fact the grippier the tyre the less wear because the tyre is not sliding and wearing out? That certainly seems true of our tyres, the most worn are the ones we slide or drift on, the least worn are actually the softest stickiest compound tyres that grip so well they are just plain boring to use because we can't spin up the tyres and have fun! They just grip no matter what and after an initial amount of wear, when the tips wore off the spikes, the  subsequent wear has been minimal.

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@mud4fun Softest Compound M Chassis Tyres.... GRIP like Flypaper, but don't last!  That, and I mentioned about 30 or so pages ago (!!!😜), that the fresh Tarmac and the fact that Sand is used as most of the Aggregate, ALSO mitigates grip. But EATS Tyres!!! 😖 

I've decided that when I can get Tyres (like everything else - in about a Month), for running on this Parking Lot... Nothing but Slicks! 

And, when I get my M07 Pro, it's GOT to have less Understeer than the M05 - which was never meant to be a proper Racer - without an abhorrent amount of money thrown at it! 😖 

And, my new FF-03 Pro should be ready soon... Can't wait to see how that does! It's running on medium Compound Slicks, which should survive longer anyway.

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Tell u what @Carmine A I can't wait to get the Schumacher Cougar down to the rec ground after lockdown is lifted. Fitted with those silver compound schumacher cactus/fusion tyres it should perform really well. We hated them on the thundershots because the grip levels were so high that you couldn't slide the back end around to get a tighter turn BUT as the Cougar turns so tight anyway under power it won't need to slide around, it'll be able to power around nornally! If anything, it struggles to better the vintage Tamiya buggies on dirt BUT on a high grip surface I suspect it will leave them trailing a long way behind! :)

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@Carmine A maybe temperature does have a role to play here? curiously we are in the cold north east of UK where our track temps have barely been above 5c since October last year. Even down in the south of the UK where I believe Turnip and JupiterTwo are, they have much warmer temps, as much as +10c warmer in some autumn months and no I'm not joking. We are sat just far enough up north to sit above the typical winter weather fronts which mean we tend to be on the cold side of the fronts whereas down south they tend to sit on the warm side. That is certaily true this winter were we've been in bitter easterlies coming in from Scandinavia/Russia since late autumn whereas much of the south of the UK has been in milder westerlies coming in off the atlantic. Sounds daft considering that we are only 200 miles different but I'm beginning to think track surface temp plays a part in tyre wear? the warmer temps leading to increased wear? not sure but there must be some reason we are experiencing such wildly different wear rates. I would hardly say we are going easy, certainly not me. I've been pushing damned hard! True, I have consistently failed to get anywhere BUT it is not for lack of effort :D

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Also @Carmine A the carpet tyres I've been running on all my cars on tarmac are the SOFTEST compound Schumacher do! They are SUPER soft and super sticky (silver). Yet they are barely 10% worn after 5000 laps? Our blue compound (hard) tyres show much more wear than the silver (carpet tyres) or green compund (wet grass). For grass or for fun drifiting on tarmac, middle mudlet and I use yellow compound full pin spikes which is a medium compound. Youngest Mudlet uses blue compound mini spikes for all surfaces on both her Thundershot and Vanquish. They have all been used on both tarmac and grass. Obviously on wet grass you would not expect any real wear and that is true BUT they have been thrashed on tarmac too. They have lost their sharp points but are also still 80-90% intact and have been used for all the grass attempts over winter and the Cougar got 3rd place on the last round on a rear set of yellow compound full spike tyres that had already done close to 5K laps on previous rounds including tarmac!!! (admittedly the front tyres were brand new green compound mini spikes). So there is not a huge difference in wear rates between compounds for us although the softest seems to wear the least?

 

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8 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

....... I'm beginning to think track surface temp plays a part in tyre wear? the warmer temps leading to increased wear? not sure but there must be some reason we are experiencing such wildly different wear rates. I would hardly say we are going easy, certainly not me. I've been pushing damned hard! True, I have consistently failed to get anywhere BUT it is not for lack of effort :D

Ian, you ARE correct. Temperature is a major factor. Oddly enough, here in the Arizona Desert, we've had unusually COLD Late Fall and Winter! If I have my conversions right, between 10°C to as low as -15°C!!! ❄❄ BRRRRR! 

I'm expecting that the Schumacher IS going to be your redeemer for all your hard work!! Seriously, anybody who can read has seen how hard you and the Girls have been pushing yourselves! And from what I've seen, you've ALL made remarkable improvement!!! 👏👏👏👏👏 

I'm and Old Pro Buggy Racer from the 80's and 90's. I'm actually fairly new to Touring Cars - but really loving it!  Paired up, @TurnipJF could wipe up the Track with me, On-Road.... 

I've just been Blessed with the absolute BEST surface for running fast and turning!!! 😜  I just need to find the appropriate Tyres that will perform, take advantage of the incredibly Grippy surface I've got to work with.

I'm nowhere near as competitive as I was when I was a Kid.... But winning is still fun! 😉 

You WILL get there!!

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Thank you @Carmine A

Actually, there is one other thing that may explain a difference in wear rates. I'm not sure about anybody else BUT I spent ages tuning our buggies to run on tarmac last year, so camber angles, toe-ins, ride heights, weight distribution etc was all changed on our cars to suit racing on the rec ground. Most especially in the case of our Egress, Avante2001 and my Thundershot which are my most heavily used buggies. Maybe this has resulted in better grip and less wear?  The new Cougar of course was setup for tarmac out of the box and I actually changed it to suit grass as it was hopelsss in its stock setup but I suspect its stock setup would be pretty awesome on high grip.

I haven't spent much time tuning the others for grass BUT you don't really get alot of wear on wet muddy grass so it wouldn't show up. Clearly this is a complex issue and there are numerous factors such as temperature, driving styles, car setup and car weights etc but I do wonder if all that time I spent tuning the buggIes for tarmac running has been rewarded in lower tyre wear? - this would of course be combined with the temp issue etc. eg. My thundershot has just a 12mm ride height at the front, has laid down shocks, 5 degree negative camber, anti roll bars front and rear, different shock oil weights, balance weights etc. This was all done to try and stop the grip roll issues it suffered when first used on tarmac. It no longer grip rolls even under quite quick hard cornering and it is much closer to the 'out of the box' performance of the Cougar than it was 12 months ago on tarmac. (of course, it is now  much worse on wet grass......but hey ho, that is the prce you pay)

It is damned diffiult to pin point the differences though because I changed the setup to each round (even changed motors, gearing, ride heights, camber and tyres etc to suit) as I was trying to learn what worked and what didn't.... sadly I am hopeless at keeping records so didn;t think to record each setup to each track condition ARRGHHHHH! :rolleyes:

 

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32 minutes ago, Carmine A said:

@mud4fun You make a great argument and sales pitch for Schumacher Tyres!! 👍👍  I'll definitely be trying some.

Do remember though that I only got into Schumacher tyres because in the UK they are quite cheap and quite common. You may found Associated or others may be a better bet in the US?

What I can say for certain is that I have literally hundreds of Tamiya 'vintage' tyres, although many are brand new re-re types still in packet. They are made from what seems like concrete :lol:, very hard compound, harder than Schumachers hardest compound and yet they wear out REALLY FAST! People used to rave about how long the oval block hotshot tyres would last but in my experience they are pants! They barely last an hour of hard use, they are so hard they just slide about everywhere and perversely wear out faster than you'd believe. Even the original Avante style spikes or Egress Spikes etc are all hard compounds tyres and wear out quick.

I gave up using Tamiya tyres a few years ago and switched to Schumacher, the softer compounds give far better grip and last just as long or much longer depending on use. Also we tend to tailor alot of our motors, gearing and batteries to the track conditions so are never putting excessive power though the tyres. I suspect brushless buggies may wear out tyres faster than our brushed buggies? not sure. 

All the Tamiya tyres are now gathring dust as they are not used at all. All our buggies are now running 2.2" wheels with Schumacher tyres other than the crawler or trucks.

 

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@mud4fun My Friend, you have made the classic mistake that ALL of us have done - probably more than once!! 😖 

I believe that you've gotten quite good at Tuning. You've got a set area to run, and between you and the Mudlets, have optimised for that Track.... 

BUT, you really need notes, so you'll KNOW what works, and to what degree. Right.... It's monotonous, and I hate doing it myself. However, I noticed on one run, just a 1 Degree change in Camber in the Rear of the M05, subtracted 1/2 a second to my Lap Times!!! Had I not noted that, I would have likely continued tweaking, and never known an optimal measurement!! 

Do you have proper Alignment Tools? spacer.png

This piece, from RPM, was only $7.00 USD, and has proven invaluable!!  I've also got the Toe Alignment Gauge, same Company, $9.00 USD. 

I've learned over the years that eyeballing Alignments - even using other devices like Protractors, Plumbobs, and several other things I've tried.... Will never be as accurate. 

Of course I've "engineered" about 98% of the SLOP out of my lesser Tamiyas (NOT easy!). But the FF-03 Pro, is the tightest Suspension of any previous Tamiya I've ever owned!! I just needed to tighten up the Steering Bridge, that was IT! 

I imagine that your Schumacher is of similar quality. If you don't have it, I'd strongly recommend some proper Alignment Tools. 😉  You'll thank yourself. And when the Mudlets get comfortable with them..... You may be in for a shock!! 😳

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5 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

Do remember though that I only got into Schumacher tyres because in the UK they are quite cheap and quite common. You may found Associated or others may be a better bet in the US? .......

Absolutely! I Raced for Team Associated. Their Buggy Tyres AND Shocks, are legendary. 

Amazingly, Schumacher Tyres ARE sold in the U.S.! At least in limited numbers and a slight premium. But you're the fifth person to recommend them, so they're absolutely worth a go. 

You're also correct that Tamiya Buggy Tyres are PANTS!!! Pantload in our terms! 😖  Ridiculously HARD compounds - except for the brutally expensive TRF Tyres, IF you could even find them. 

In the On-Road department.... Tamiya Tyres range from hard as Vinyl to the "S Compound" Tyres I have on the M05 - which wear like CHOCOLATE!! But do grip. 

I'll definitely be looking at Schumacher, Associated, Losi..... 

There's no longer a TRACK in this big City!! 😭  It was easy then - I'd just go to the Track and either ask the Guys what they're running. And for the majority who think it has to be a sacred secret - I'd see how they placed, and ask the Shop Owner WHAT he sold them!! 😜

Now I have to get my information from a lot of Internet heresay!! But at least I know a couple of good Blokes like yourself, who give me, as my Grandfather used to say, the straight dope!! 

So I'll go with that. 😊

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Hi, can I just ask the guys running tt01/2 on flat tarmac ,how low can you take the tub without it catching everything ? like a court not a track I mean 

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