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TurnipJF

Racing by post - Round 11 track is up!

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21 minutes ago, jupitertwo said:

Less complicated and quicker perhaps:

Unwinding chicane into a sweeping right handed before the hairpin at the end?

The thought was to slow the cars right down, then build the speed up over the lap. 

Untitled-Diagram.png

I moved the markers around a bit... thoughts? Still on a 5x3m marker footprint.

r8_suggestion_02_labels.jpg

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I like it, but to even out tyre wear, how about a crossover between the two closest-together cones? This would mean we go around the hairpin in the opposite direction to the other two turns.

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25 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

I like it, but to even out tyre wear, how about a crossover between the two closest-together cones? This would mean we go around the hairpin in the opposite direction to the other two turns.

I was thinking about the crossover too, but then we might as well just use @jupitertwo's suggestion prior to my modification.

It's a similar age-old dilemma when designing an HO slot car track--how to equalize the lane lengths without an overpass. It's impossible, just like equalizing tire wear, so my goal is to just make tracks that are fun to run on.

If tire wear becomes a big concern, you can always swap the worn ones to the opposite side after a few runs ;)

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8 minutes ago, El Gecko said:

make tracks that are fun to run on

The goal, in my eyes :)

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Tyre wear? Really? :wacko::o

I know I haven't won a round but I've not come too far behind, often getting similar fastest lap times and my tyres are like new? I have just done 800+ laps with the Cougar on yellow compound Schumacher full spiked rears and green compound mini spiked fronts and they are all like new. Honestly. Same with the Thundershot which is running heavily used full spikes that have even been used extensively on tarmac last year too (including hundreds of laps wheelspinning and drifting). Both got very close to top in round 7 so you know I was pushing hard. The tyres on the Thundershot have been used on most rounds since round 2 over several cars and still look like new.

Also my Schumacher silver compoud carpet tyres used for most of our tarmac racing last year are literally like new despite 5000+ laps of use being swapped between my Thundershot, my Avante2001 and middle mudlets Egress.

Are touring car tyres prone to rapid wear compared to buggies??? Is it the Brushless motors taking a toll? I guess the touring cars weigh roughly the same but are running on much smaller contact patches so the rubber will wear faster? Very curious. 

We've only worn out a couple of sets of full spikes in a year and I'd estimate each set did the equivalent of 10K postal racing laps, most of the wear was in drag racing and messing about doing donuts etc. All the mini spikes, carpet tyres, blocks and tarmac tyres are barely worn.

I am honestly curious. Talk of courses being hard on tyres because of too many left or right turns is something we don't even consider as we have never noticed any real wear on any round. Are your tyres softer than Schumacher silver or yellow compounds?

Edit: The only thing I can think of is that I never use brakes, no seriously, my buggies are all low geared and the Dyna Run Super Touring has sufficient engine braking that simply lifting off throttle virtually stops the buggy dead. I can't rely on braking as the HW 1060 is useless compared to my old Novak's so I've been using engine braking instead. So is it braking wearing out the tyres??

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One round's worth of wear to FTX Vantage premounts:

2020-11-07_01-00-36

But if it isn't an issue for anyone else, forget I said anything. I'll just rotate them. 

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7 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

One round's worth of wear:

 

But if it isn't an issue for anyone else, forget I said anything. 

Eek, Gulp, wow!

Were your grasshopper tyres in the same state??? :)

Clearly I'm not pushing anywhere near hard enough!!!! LOL

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12 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

But if it isn't an issue for anyone else, forget I said anything. 

On the contrary, I've completely destroyed the front tires on both my Grasshoppers doing postal racing, although they were fairly well-worn to begin with. So I get where you're coming from.

I'll be making a snow track for this one, so you guys shouldn't take me seriously. If everyone likes jupitertwo's layout better, I promise I won't be offended and will have just as much fun racing trying to race on it as the rest of you :D

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6 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

Eek, Gulp, wow!

Were your grasshopper tyres in the same state??? :)

Clearly I'm not pushing anywhere near hard enough!!!! LOL

The Grasshopper tyres were nowhere near as worn as those on my Thundershot, but even they showed some noticeable wear after a single round.

2021-02-05_11-13-53

 

My touring car tyres are completely bald!

2021-02-05_11-19-04

(They were slicks to start with, but that's besides the point. 😁)

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These are the rear yellow compound pin spikes on the Egress (left) and Cougar (right).

The Egress tyres have done approx 2000 laps of postal racing, roughly 50% of that was on tarmac (wet) the rest on grass.

The Cougars tyres have done approx 1500 laps, approx 30% on tarmac (wet) the rest on grass.

We swap the tyres between cars so they have been used on three different chassis across all those laps.

I can only think I'm just not pushing hard enough? Maybe with imrpoved consistency over time I'll be able to push harder and then I'll start to see quick wear. Maybe there is a point where wear happens rapidly but I'm not quite at that point yet?

580874297_tyre_wear(1).thumb.jpg.e4f9dac6848f23a42545367e73e16e84.jpg

 

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and these are my Schumacher silver compound carpet tyres, Cactus rears, Cactus fusion fronts.

They have done 5000 laps on wet or damp tarmac across three buggies.

1501362022_tyre_wear(2).thumb.jpg.bcc5567540be5347cc5537b2d3d9dc31.jpg

 

You can see why I'm a bit perplexed by this talk of tyre wear!

 

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16 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

I can only think I'm just not pushing hard enough? Maybe with imrpoved consistency over time I'll be able to push harder and then I'll start to see quick wear. Maybe there is a point where wear happens rapidly but I'm not quite at that point yet?

I think it might have more to do with our respective running surfaces rather than how hard we are pushing. You have stated on several occasions that your rec ground tarmac is rather slippery and  greasy. The tarmac on which I run on the other hand is not greasy at all, is relatively freshly laid and is not driven on by full-size cars very often at all. I suspect it is therefore considerably more abrasive than your tarmac. (It probably grips better too, which I suspect has far more to do with my race results so far than my skill does.)

Plus, apart from a couple of grass runs a few rounds ago, all of my running has been on tarmac. 

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Yes very true @TurnipJF, other than round 2 where we ran on a different part of our rec ground car park (very dry in full sun) we normally run in the section near the trees and hedges. It is covered in moss/algae even in summer and only gets worse in winter. Having said that though, those silver compound carpet tyres simply will not spin up even on icy tarmac. The buggy just grips and drives. They will not slide at all either so if you go too hot into a bend you'll grip roll even on the algae or frosty surface. They are very, very boring tyres to drive on because we can't do donuts or drifting on them so we actually prefer running the pin spikes so we can spin them up :D 

We also found our lap times to be no quicker than on spikes because on spikes we can slide the  back end around/drift around a corner under alot of revs whereas with the carpet tyres we have to slow right down and actually drive around the markers.

I think it was round 6 that we tried the carpet tyres on Stig Eater on the wet tarmac first and in the end actually got a higher lap count using the lower grip pin spikes!

edit: Also when I say it is tarmac, that is not really accurate, it is very old tarmac (maybe 20 yrs old) and is very broken up and has a very open rough surface, not smooth tarmac as you would probably know it. The surface is more like 10mm gravel stuck in tar than a smooth flat surface....

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More I think about this the more I suspect braking is the cause? 

When I was doing max speed runs last summer I was doing dozens and dozens of flat out runs down 300 feet of car park then slamming brakes on before I ran out of tarmac. Did that on all our buggies. I wore out two sets of spikes in a few hours.

In postal racing neither myself or the mudlets use the brakes at all. We blip the throttle at start of straight and immediately back off and then use engine braking alone to shed speed for a turn. We've done that on every round. This is obviously not going to be as quick as using throttle for full straight then brake for turn but it leads to significantly less tyre wear? Do you guys use your brakes for the turns?

I couldn't afford to be replacing a set of tyres on every buggy on every round, as we are typically running six or seven cars per round gulp! Will have to live with being mid table I think :)

 

EDIT: This could be a case of 'art' mimicking reality..... this is one of the BFG KM2 mud/snow tyres on my 109" classic Land Rover, has done 44K miles on tarmac and has only lost 3-4mm of tread in last 10 years of driving. Seems my full size driving style has translated to my RC cars :D (you never rely on the brakes as they are naff, just judge corners and use engine braking to slow down instead!)

566308523_tyre_wear(3).thumb.jpg.e6c75c0167a6c7006460ff2598059a79.jpg

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Gave my second suggestion a try out. Certainly quicker and easier to set out than my first suggestion. Might be worth rotating it 45 degree to make it easier to mark out.

the chicane works reasonably well, punishing you if you get too wide, rewarding you if you get it right. Quicker than round 7 by a bit I think, and if you have the spare it doesn’t seem too bad if you run wide. 

However if you don’t have space, there’s amble opportunity to get stuck in borders, hedges or planters. My Delta body is certainly more worn in now!

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@jupitertwo sadly I haven't had a chance to set that one up yet, been busy masking up and painting today, also the weather has been awful here, heavy rain most of the day today.

Snow also forecast for here tomorrow so it may be next weekend before I can have a play as I need to get a new Avante2001 shell cut out, masked an painted tomorrow too, should have all three of my buggies in their new team colours by next weekend :)

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Drawn in a way I think helps laying it out

Postal-Racing-08---Option-2.png

Arrow indicating where I thought least danger for the lap monitor (though I did get it twice being distracted by inconvenient driveway users :P

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Dry tarmac and sun today - feels rare of late! Couldn’t resist charging a battery and having a go.

Wowzer the 1.25m gap is tight! Although at least only having a Torque Tuned motor isn’t going to be a handicap.

Re the braking / tyre wear question - on this track I brake once per lap for the hairpin. Fair bit of traction going through the tyres on some other corners, esp the lone cone at the bottom of the track map above.

 

 

A92EE811-258C-4306-BE91-6C609CCBEE9A.jpeg

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20 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

I think it might have more to do with our respective running surfaces rather than how hard we are pushing. You have stated on several occasions that your rec ground tarmac is rather slippery and  greasy. The tarmac on which I run on the other hand is not greasy at all, is relatively freshly laid and is not driven on by full-size cars very often at all. I suspect it is therefore considerably more abrasive than your tarmac. (It probably grips better too, which I suspect has far more to do with my race results so far than my skill does.)

Plus, apart from a couple of grass runs a few rounds ago, all of my running has been on tarmac. 

Exactly, we have a soccer playground with gum-paint on it. 2 x 5000mAh batterie packs and a new set of slicks is gone!

 

so I think it has more to dowith the surface.

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On 2/5/2021 at 4:39 PM, TurnipJF said:

I think it might have more to do with our respective running surfaces rather than how hard we are pushing. ...... The tarmac on which I run on the other hand is not greasy at all, is relatively freshly laid and is not driven on by full-size cars very often at all. I suspect it is therefore considerably more abrasive than your tarmac. (It probably grips better too, which I suspect has far more to do with my race results so far than my skill does.).....

Most CERTAINLY is Mate!! The freshly Paved Tarmac Parking Lot I've been using has been phenomenal for grip - but has completely KNACKERED 3 sets of Tyres completely Bald and USELESS!! 😖😭 

I'm waiting for new Tyres to arrive, and debating trying my bog standard Slicks in my FF-03 Pro Kit. They don't feel particularly sticky.... 

But I can tell you, I've got the Chassis DIALED!! spacer.png

spacer.png

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23 hours ago, jupitertwo said:

Drawn in a way I think helps laying it out

Postal-Racing-08---Option-2.png

Arrow indicating where I thought least danger for the lap monitor (though I did get it twice being distracted by inconvenient driveway users :P

Is THIS officially the Track!? 😁 

Looks quite fast, requiring much more skill than its simpler design shows......

I LOVE IT!! 😁👊👏👏👏

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Dear hivemind, what do you reckon the odds are for rc tyres leaving rubbermarks on granite? As soon as some scaffolding is taken down I'm looking to be the lanterne rouge for this postal series.
But I'm not to keen to leave skidmarks all over the place. Do you think there's any chance of this? 

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21 minutes ago, Robert5000 said:

Dear hivemind, what do you reckon the odds are for rc tyres leaving rubbermarks on granite? As soon as some scaffolding is taken down I'm looking to be the lanterne rouge for this postal series.
But I'm not to keen to leave skidmarks all over the place. Do you think there's any chance of this? 

Well granite is one of the harder rock types, so I'd guess you'll be fine, but the only way to really know is to do some recon and try it out before you commit to setting up a track etc.

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7 minutes ago, El Gecko said:

Well granite is one of the harder rock types, so I'd guess you'll be fine, but the only way to really know is to do some recon and try it out before you commit to setting up a track etc.

Brilliant, I'll find the place with the least chance of Her finding potential incriminating marks and give it a go. Cheers! 

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Any more suggestions, or should we go with my version 2? I know that might disappoint youngest Mudlet, but it is a lot easier to set out for those with temporary circuits. 
 

@rybackwhat do you think?

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