Racing by post - Round 45 takes us to Anderstorp!

[Re-Bugged 10161]

Sitting at the breakfast table with Mrs RB after finishing my last night shift and the weekend off to look forward to, I happen to mention that this Sunday was the deadline for Round 4 Postal Racing,

She says ‘Sounds great where are ‘we’ going to race for this one??’

To which my dumbfounded caught off guard response was...

 

[Carmine A 2046]

@Re-Bugged I would FALL OVER if my wife ever said that!!! Lucky Man.

[Re-Bugged 10161]

I think I would of to @Carmine A if I wasn’t already sitting down at the time. 

[TurnipJF 9192]

Last weekend was rainy, wet and miserable, and while I have a selection of waterproof and water-resistant cars, I don't have any fully watertight transmitters, so my hobby time was spent prepping and setting up cars, with the odd short practice run between rain showers.

This weekend though, the weather forecast looks a lot more promising, so I should be able to get in a few good competitive runs. So far the cars I plan on running include my TT-02 (to hopefully give @Carmine A a bit of competition), my Thundershot (to see how I compare with @mud4fun and his Mudlets), my TT-02B (to see how a more recent 4WD buggy compares to the 'Shot) and my DT-02 (to see how 2WD buggy fares against a 4WD one with similar power). I am also sorely tempted to take out my M-05 and see if I can get anywhere near @Carmine A (assuming he is running his M-05 in this round), as well as something unlikely to do well but still fun to try, such as my Hotshot, WR-02G or G6-01 perhaps.

What is everyone else running this round?

[Carmine A 2046]

@TurnipJF my DT-02 did not fare well... But then, stock Tires!

[Re-Bugged 10161]

2 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

What is everyone else running this round?

I’ve fixed my TA02SW uprights this morning so is up and running again thanks to Tony’s Tamiya Parts. The tyres are pretty slick so is more of a drift car but good fun. 

I’m keen to give the M08 Mini another run too. Also thinking of swapping out the 203 Futaba Rx in it and maybe fitting a Flysky Rx I have spare to see what difference the Gyro makes it more than anything.

Maybe running the Blitzer as well 🤔

[TurnipJF 9192]

Well, that is my first set of timed runs done - I decided to go proper old-school and drive my Hotshot. 

Thundershot next - I wonder if it will be quicker?

[TurnipJF 9192]

...And the answer is yes, it is a lot quicker! By almost 10 laps over 5 minutes. Also much harder on the tyres:

 

"Umm, I'm sure those didn't look like that 15 minutes ago!"

 

TT-02B up next!

[TurnipJF 9192]

The  timed runs with the TT-02B Neo Scorcher were great fun, with the new carbon shock towers not only adding to the looks but also making a meaningful difference to the handling.

It was quicker than the Thundershot, as one might expect given its relative modern-ness and that it is running a 13.5t Speed Passion as opposed to the GT Tuned in the Thundershot. However the difference wasn't massive - nowhere near the same as the gap between the Hotshot and Thundershot for example. One might argue that this is an indicator that the TT-02B isn't all that good, but I prefer to look at it the other way - that despite its age, the Thundershot is good enough to keep up with a modern buggy.

One area in which the TT-02B is significantly ahead of the Thundershot is tyre wear, or rather the lack of it. I did the same number of laps, with the same make, model and spec of tyres and inserts, at higher speed, but still ended with far more tread left on my front tyres:

I also noted that while the Thundershot is very dramatic to watch, with plenty of chassis and suspension movement under acceleration, braking and turn-in, the TT-02B just sits flat and gets on with the task of going around the track. It is an almost purely visual difference though - both go where I tell them to with minimal driver correction, and there is little if any change in driving style required when switching between them.

DT-02 up next!

[TurnipJF 9192]

Initial practice runs with the DT-02 Desert Gator weren't too promising, as I decided to forgo my usual Schumacher tyres and run the stock kit ones, same as @Carmine A. At one point I thought it might even end up scoring fewer laps than my Hotshot! But then I got into the groove, having recalibrated my brain from 4WD to 2WD mode, and managed what I hope will turn out to be a reasonably respectable total. Not as good as the TT-02B which also uses a 13.5t motor, not even quite as good as the Thundershot, but several laps clear of the Hotshot.

Now to give the buggies a break and get ready for tomorrow, which will be TC and Mini day!

Has anyone else been doing timed runs today? If so, how did it go? Cars behaving as anticipated, or were there any surprises?

[mud4fun 1696]

Sadly we have had heavy rain for most of the last two weeks so have not done any practise on round 4 at all and we had limited time this weekend so we just managed to get two attempts in each today. It was brigh and sunny but quite cold, air temps around 8c but with a bit of a breeze it felt colder. Poor youngest mudlets fingers were getting too cold.

The chosen cars for this round were:

• My Thundershot 'Stig Eater' now running a 13T Dyna Run super touring motor, 5000mah 2S LiPo and a new Schumacher wing! 
• Middle Mudlets Terra Scorcher running a 19T Reedy spec motor and 7.2v NiMh
• Youngest Mudlet driving the Vanquish for the first time (it is now hers) with a sport tuned (silver version) and 7.2v NiMh

I chose to run the carpet tyres again, this time glued to some cheap Losi racing wheels (with the rear hubs machined out to allow enough thread to get a nyloc on). This buggy is a dream to drive now, tracks arrow straight even at the 30mph top speed (small 14t pinion fitted for this small track), handling is very good on tarmac, turns sharply and just drives around corners now, no grip rolling any more. I ran LOADS of negative camber on both front and rear.

@TurnipJF, my thundershot no longer has that visual suspension movement because it is lowered so much there is barely any travel in the super mini shocks I fitted LOL - works great on smooth tarmac but I managed to hit a stone at speed that was bigger than my 12mm ground clearance, it launched me in the air and made a horrible cracking noise, thankfully no damage apparent though.

If we'd have had more time then I think we all could have got another 3-4 laps per race as we all made mistakes on each of our attempts and both mudlets managed to roll on their best attempts which cost them at least one lap. We need to lower the Terra Scorcher and Vanquish as both ride far too high for tarmac racing and both are carrying heavy NiMh packs which makes matters worse. 

 

[GTodd 1354]

I usually ignore the general portion of the forum, my go tos are the Rere, vintage, and build areas. Someone mentioned this thread . I'll be setting this up for my son and me when I get back home from business. 

https://www.ksl.com/article/50044359/winter-storm-watch-issued-across-utah-as-snow-cold-weather-forecast-to-return-this-weekend

On 10/28/2020 at 10:42 PM, Fabia130vRS said:

Is this the track layout ?

curios I maybe can do a run today

 

 

[mud4fun 1696]

Those 'restrictor' cones we placed on the end did their job well. While we used the flat rubber discs for the 4 corners, we chose to use cones for the restrictors because if you clip them or hit them at speed you flip. So we lost a lot of time having to slow down and turn more sharply to stay well clear of the cones. It also made the track more challenging. We had to be very careful not to overshoot a corner otherwise we'd lose yonks of time having to virtually stop to correct our lines to bring us inside those restrictor cones. They didn't look that bad on the drawing but when running at speed they were more tricky than first imagined!

[GTodd 1354]

I can't bring myself to run spikes on concrete after what I did as a kid wearing out my Avante, Astute, and King can tires.  Off to ebay to order some onroad wheel and tires.  I could set this up in the back yard but we are getting snow!

[mud4fun 1696]

1 hour ago, GTodd said:

I can't bring myself to run spikes on concrete after what I did as a kid wearing out my Avante, Astute, and King can tires.  Off to ebay to order some onroad wheel and tires.  I could set this up in the back yard but we are getting snow!

We use modern 2.2 inch wheels on all our vintage buggies so we can run readily available modern tyres (eg. schumacher) so no need to worry about wearing out expensive and rare tyres 

[mud4fun 1696]

@GTodd there are limited tarmac tyre options available for 1/10th buggies, often the surface area is too much for a lightweight buggy and you just slide or spin. I have actually found Schumacher carpet tyres (cactus rear, Cactus fusion front) to be far superior to so called tarmac tyres. If you get them in super sticky silver compound they grip like crazy on our local rec ground tarmac drive. However they have to be glued to the wheel. They generate such high grip that they pull straight off a wheel if not glued. I bought some cheap 'disposable' wheels to use for them. Be aware though that they are boring as heck to drive with, no slides, no wheelspin and no drifting! They just stick to the surface and you corner like on rails.

 

[mud4fun 1696]

10 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

One area in which the TT-02B is significantly ahead of the Thundershot is tyre wear, or rather the lack of it. I did the same number of laps, with the same make, model and spec of tyres and inserts, at higher speed, but still ended with far more tread left on my front tyres:

Curious, I have not suffered any serious tyre wear on my thundershot. After the first 60 minutes of use my super sticky (silver compound) schumacher cactus tyres showed signs of wear and I thought they'd maybe only last 120 mins before being worn away. However the wear slowed right down after that initial 45-60 mins use. I have now done a further 60 minutes use on them including two 5 minute postal racing attempts today under very hard use and they don't seem to have worn any further at all. 

I'm no expert but I reckon this is down to me hitting the perfect vehicle weight for the width of these tyres. After shedding weight by fitting the LiPo, lighter ESC and lighter receiver I'm down to approx 1470g all up weight including battery (and transponder and new wing). I was also running 5 degrees negative camber on front wheels and 8 degrees on rear. This seems to be the sweet spot in terms of weight and camber for these tyres on this buggy. I also lowered it again, down to just 12mm ground clearance up front and 16mm at rear. This gave exceptionally high grip levels, minimal wear and zero grip roll even under the sharp turns at high speeds. 

I still probably won't come close to you or Carmine BUT I haven't properly raced even at club level for 30 years and compared to my initial attempts at postal racing with this buggy in its original off road configuration I feel both my driving and the buggies performance have improved dramatically 

Attached are pictures of my tyres. Schumacher Cactus Rear, Cactus Fusion fronts, fitted with schumacher medium foams and glued to Losi Racing wheels. These have now had exactly 120 minutes use, of that 60 minutes was hard use in postal racing attempts (on a rough tarmac driveway at our local rec ground) in mainly cold or wet conditions.

Curious to know if there is any significant weight or camber difference between your TT02B and Thundershot?

[Carmine A 2046]

Gentlemen, and Mudlets....

Something had come to my attention lately. I just found out that my Daughter, after getting BORED.... Stopped counting Laps on both my runs in Round 3 - and GUESSED the counts.

I'm deeply embarrassed by that. It means my Round 3 Results were wrong, and null and void. (I imagine a few of you already guessed that). 

To prevent a repeat of that, I had one person timing and two People counting Laps - one of them, what some of the Brits call a "Rozzer"!! (One of my favorite terms) He's a Cop. 

I'm very sorry for any stresses that may have caused. I can assure you that it will never happen again.  I hope you can forgive me.

[mud4fun 1696]

Funny story from today though, not really related to postal racing. While we were down at the rec ground I decided to GPS speed test 'Stig Eater' with the new Dyna Run motor. The tarmac driveway is several hundred feet long and in full shade of trees at the far end from where I was stood. In the precise middle of the track several hundred feet away there appeared to be a dark damp patch of tarmac but I didn't think anything of it and I was too far away to see it properly........

I zoomed off on my first pass at the GPS speed run, tracked arrow straight flat out down the driveway and the thundershot hit that 'dark patch', made an ear piecing crunching sound and catapulted into the air, thankfully landing on its tyres. I turned around and drove back, it seemed much slower on the way back.....

No obvious sign of damage but there is now a rattling sound coming from the rear gearbox when you shake the car - I suspect I've lost some gearteeth oops!

My youngest daughter ran up to the end of the drive to inspect the 'dark patch' and shouted back that it was 'Only a 3 inch deep pot hole'   

Not many buggies can hit a 3 inch deep pot hole at 29mph and survive largely intact.....typical Thundershot though, even with stripped teeth it still managed to drive happily back.. I kid you not, every single gearbox suspension mount on this buggy is cracked and have been for 18 years and yet it still drives fine. When they finally part company with the car I'll replace them 

[mud4fun 1696]

26 minutes ago, Carmine A said:

Gentlemen, and Mudlets....

Something had come to my attention lately. I just found out that my Daughter, after getting BORED.... Stopped counting Laps on both my runs in Round 3 - and GUESSED the counts.

I'm deeply embarrassed by that. It means my Round e Results were wrong, and null and void. (I imagine a few of you already guessed that). 

To prevent a repeat of that, I had one person timing and two People counting Laps - one of them, what some of the Brits call a "Rozzer"!! (One of my favorite terms) He's a Cop. 

I'm very sorry for any stresses that may have caused. I can assure you that it will never happen again.  I hope you can forgive me.

Thanks Carmine A, appreciate that, don't worry, we used to suffer that exact same thing when we were racing in the garden. That is why I bought the LapMonitor. It has certainly meant lap counting is now stress free. Sadly it just introduced a whole new world of pain as the kids have now found other things to argue about   (including, and I kid you not, the placement of the LapMonitor!)

[Carmine A 2046]

16 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

Thanks Carmine A, appreciate that, don't worry, we used to suffer that exact same thing when we were racing in the garden. That is why I bought the LapMonitor. It has certainly meant lap counting is now stress free. Sadly it just introduced a whole new world of pain as the kids have now found other things to argue about   (including, and I kid you not, the placement of the LapMonitor!)

Thank you Ian!! I felt bad, and needed that chuckle. 😂

[mud4fun 1696]

11 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

...And the answer is yes, it is a lot quicker! By almost 10 laps over 5 minutes. Also much harder on the tyres:

Even for a big Thundershot fan like me, I'm surprised by that difference! I know the Hotshot is heavier but I'm guessing there are more differences, different motors, pinions or batteries?

EDIT: I still stand by my assertion that the Thundershot (with Terra Scorcher upgrades) was the best 4WD buggy Tamiya made in the 1980's. Now before you all crucify me by telling me that the Egress or Top Force Evo or blah blah were better then let me explain. The Thundershot was cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, rugged and reliable. It could be made (with a little know how and limited cost) to perform well on all surfaces from tarmac to mud. The gearboxes are bullet proof (except for hitting 3 inch deep pot holes at 30mph) and can take insane motors and batteries with no real issues, I've run 13T motors on 9.6v and run at over 40mph and never suffered a gearbox failure. They have only a few weak areas that are easily rectified for pennies. I have owned Egress, Manta Ray and Top Force buggies, and indeed still own Egress, Vanquish and Avante2001 buggies which are quite frankly pants in comparison. They are superior to the Thundershot in very specific scenarios but are expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, fragile and generally downright useless on rough off road tracks, mud, true dirt tracks or in wet conditions. The Thundershot design was also excellent for rapid in field repairs, entire front or rear gearbox/suspension sub assemblies can be swapped out in literally minutes - something that we have done many times while garden racing - a seriously damaged Thundershot can be back in use within 15 minutes, something that can not be said for Egress or Top Force buggies.

[GTodd 1354]

3 hours ago, mud4fun said:

@GTodd there are limited tarmac tyre options available for 1/10th buggies, often the surface area is too much for a lightweight buggy and you just slide or spin. I have actually found Schumacher carpet tyres (cactus rear, Cactus fusion front) to be far superior to so called tarmac tyres. If you get them in super sticky silver compound they grip like crazy on our local rec ground tarmac drive. However they have to be glued to the wheel. They generate such high grip that they pull straight off a wheel if not glued. I bought some cheap 'disposable' wheels to use for them. Be aware though that they are boring as heck to drive with, no slides, no wheelspin and no drifting! They just stick to the surface and you corner like on rails.

 

Hahaha, good to know!

[mud4fun 1696]

12 minutes ago, GTodd said:

Hahaha, good to know!

Be aware also that if you increase your grip significantly, you increase the risk of grip rolls when cornering. You may need to lower car or add lots of negative camber to compensate. Just a warning after I learnt the hard way. 

At least with the hard compound pin spikes they tend to slide more easily whereas high grip tyres won't and they bite firm on a corner and your buggy simply rolls instead..... for tarmac running I changed my shocks to much shorter ones, added spacers and lowered the buggy significantly in addition to lowering the CoG and reducing weight overall. Cornering speeds now well up on before, tyre wear right down and overall performance now excellent but 'boring' LOL

[Re-Bugged 10161]

Took the M08 Mini, TA02SW Porsche, Stadium Blitzer and the Blackfoot for a session.

I tried a different carpark first but wasn’t overly happy, the Mini was a real handful as was the Porsche. The Blitzer however couldn’t have cared less it’s happy to run anywhere that thing 😁.

So I headed out to some mud flats to give the Blackfoot a run as I prefer it being off road to avoid that horrible hard body grating sound they make if they roll on the pavement.

And as luck would have it there was some freshly laid Tarmac near by to re-run the others on.

The Mini was still a bit tall happy at first but swapping the front wheels with the rears calmed things down and was an absolute joy to drive, it’s just soooooo smooth.

I adjusted the Toe-in slightly on the Porsche when I replaced the uprights, who would of thought 0.5mm on the Turnbuckles would make so much difference? A much better run than its last one 👍🏻.

Another great day to be out. Sadly Mrs RB was tied up with our daughters end of school Prom night preparations so didn’t come in the end. She is still keen though.