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I just watched this on Netflix and I think this is possibly the most important documentary of the year.  As we watch far-left and far-right protest/riot/domestic terrorist groups acting against each other and against society in general, the influence social media has on perception, beliefs, thoughts, words, and actions should not be underestimated.

 

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all i know is in fact the media, and certain entities in the government are pitting us against each other.

it's like a magician, watch the left hand while the right hand is doing something else.

It's all an illusion for power, control and to strip our rights, not just as citizens but as human beings.

END TIMES for gosh darn sure, read the signs.

I refuse to be a sheep

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It’s a scary reality how easily people can be lead these days. Often without having the foggiest idea what they are following, just because so many others are doing it.

 

2 hours ago, ACCEL said:

END TIMES for gosh darn sure, read the signs.

My wife keeps pointing this out on a regular basis too  👍🏻

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They say the success of our species was largely down to our primitive ancestors grouping together in mutual cooperation, unfortunately I think it’s more that we’re successful as a species because we’re naturally aggressive and exploitative, today many of us have swapped the struggle to survive with desires of luxury and while some have moved away from being aggressive and exploitative to achieve this goal many have gone in the other direction. So regardless of social background there are two types of people, those content to work hard for what they want and those who think they have a right to what others work for.

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7 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

I just watched this on Netflix and I think this is possibly the most important documentary of the year.

Definitely on my watch list pile. I've been quite aware of all the subtle, but effective influences from our media/entertainment/advertisement and how they've grown over the years. A long while back, locals were perplexed about grocery stores moving to the use of "Bonus Cards" "Gold Cards" etc. It was under the guise of saving money so they swallowed it. Instantly, I (and many others I'm sure) realized this was the perfect tool for gathering information on spending habits on not just groups but actual individuals. A gold mine of info at the time. The tailored ads we see when we begin shopping for items online? I know I'm not the only one that sees straight through this but I guess it must work on the masses. The sheer amount and constant bombardment of attempted influence in today's world is almost inconceivable.

I shunned social media the second it was introduced, recognizing the potential ramifications. I've never used it. Gradually, I watched as it consumed the lives of so many around me, their heads forever tilted downward, jammed in their smartphones. The greatest information tool imaginable in our back pocket and we use it to find out what our friend is eating at a particular moment or what some stupid thing a celebrity said/did. Leave to humans to muck things up. I'm surprised the PC wasn't used as a hammer when first introduced at this rate, but that was before the internet and we were a little brighter. On the downside, being outside of the social media thing has left me utterly bewildered at the changes in people I've observed over the years. But, then again, I'd never want to get sucked into that. Perhaps this documentary will shed some light on that. Makes me long for the days of my flannel shirt and Nirvana tee shirt (oh, wait, I still wear that stuff, lol) 

56 minutes ago, Lee76 said:

So regardless of social background there are two types of people, those content to work hard for what they want and those who think they have a right to what others work for.

Quite true. I'm tired of the idea of those two types of people being shunted into political parties in people's minds too. There are hard workers on both sides of the political spectrum. I'm a moderate but on the liberal side (which in my deeply conservative area, makes me a bleeding heart nut-job) but wholly believe in hard work and earning what you want/need. My wife has an acquaintance who has four cars worth of money rolled into a huge loan because they keep trading up while still being up-side down on the previous loans. When asked why they bought yet another car, the person replied "Because I deserve it." Well, if you don't make the money, you don't really deserve it. I work a hard, physical job. That doesn't mean I deserve squat. I deserve what I can afford. Granted the discrepancy (which often comes down to greed in a capitalist society) between white collar workers at the top and the blue collars at the bottom is obscene at times. Sorry for the ramble.

 

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The Press media and social media has vast influence on those that are silly or gullible to believe all they read and hear.

Scare tactics are the most common. The latest is Covid. now I realise people have died from this and its very sad,most have died from underlying issues at the time of catching covid. But I ask,as any country or region been hit so hard by covid cases that hospitals or governments could not cope?

Covid is now a new business, loads of new "experts" giving their views and advice on a subject they know nothing about. "experts" getting grants etc. These people do not want covid to go away,do they?  We will be wearing masks and afraid to go out for years.

 

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Quite right @Saito2 now we all know the model of communism is fundamentally flawed, but so is capitalism. We’re not going to change the world on a forum.. but if more people were happy to work for things and aspire to have more by working harder there can be a progressive scale, if the fat cats at the top weren’t so greedy and there wasn’t such a huge disparity everyone would be better off. Let’s take televisions as an example. You can buy a good TV for £500 you’ll then get a scale of £800, £1200, £1500, £2000, £5000, £10,000, £30,000.

Now, do you think the man buying the £30,000 tv is earning 60x that of the man buying the £500.. no, he’s earning way way more. Now say you work harder to earn the £800 tv, the man at the top of your food tree does nothing extra but is also moving up the ladder as is everyone in between. The higher up the earning scale you are the lower the percentage of your wealth  the tv value represents. This wealth curve would look exponential. If you moved this model to be Cubic there is still room for growth, improvement, ambition etc but the distribution is more even. In practical terms if you straight forward transposed the wealth scale to cubic Growth everyone could afford to live a little better, the uk at the top is still increasingly wealthy, man at the bottom can now afford the £800 model and aspire to work harder for the £1200 one.. or buy the £500 one and put some savings in his pension... better life and long term gains, key thing is he has a choice which now isn’t having a pension or TV. When you start to flatten the pay gap you get the added benefit of making everything more efficient, you can begin to eliminate certain budget breaks, so remove the £500 tv altogether, reducing production costs, simplifying manufacture and logistics and then drop the sale price of the now more profitable £800 tv to £500..

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3 hours ago, Gazzalene said:

The Press media and social media has vast influence on those that are silly or gullible to believe all they read and hear.

Scare tactics are the most common. The latest is Covid. now I realise people have died from this and its very sad,most have died from underlying issues at the time of catching covid. But I ask,as any country or region been hit so hard by covid cases that hospitals or governments could not cope?

Covid is now a new business, loads of new "experts" giving their views and advice on a subject they know nothing about. "experts" getting grants etc. These people do not want covid to go away,do they?  We will be wearing masks and afraid to go out for years.

 

It's exactly like WAR (in this case it's Biological) it generates money and commotion so they they will have free reign

Too many facets in the world is going wrong, so many different reasons that one can not explain.

This is where i turn it over to The True King.

i don't like it but i'm not fearful, i can only change what i'm capable of and the rest is up to HIm.

i always believed "You can not fly with turkey's if you want to soar like an Eagle"

Truthfully we are living in the most extraordinary times in all of history.

i'm thankful here, and i believe most here that have posted are Admirable souls and thus we shall be rewarded.

Gee Speed, i think you have hit a chord here, i think too many people are jumping into the shallow end and not testing the water first, thus some humans, well, they'll find out once they dive head first.

 

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5 hours ago, Re-Bugged said:

It’s a scary reality how easily people can be lead these days. Often without having the foggiest idea what they are following, just because so many others are doing it.

 

My wife keeps pointing this out on a regular basis too  👍🏻

Your wife is correct on this.

i'm not very good at math, but all of what's been going on it does add up, now it's up to us which side we are on God's or the continually fallible man.

i'll chose the first The Alpha and the Omega.

Exiting times isn't it?

now i'll go out front to watch California on fire.

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3 hours ago, Gazzalene said:

. But I ask,as any country or region been hit so hard by covid cases that hospitals or governments could not cope?

Well ,Yes... Did you not follow the news? Take Italy for example, one of the first Western European countries to be hit hard. The first impacted regions the hospital were full of people being treated in corridors as beds and ventilators ran out, the dead were being stockpiled, Lombardy had over 16000 deaths.. Now the UK was late to react, but still had time to do some basic prep, making more hospital capacity and increasing the number of CPAP and respirators available. This would not have been possible without lockdown, since the severity and speed of the infection, had no action taken place we’d have been rapidly swamped like the poor hospital staff in Lombardy hospitals. Same goes for most of what I’ll call the reporting world, there are countries that simply don't report or misrepresent the numbers. But I think I’ll bow out graciously of being involved in political debate in this forum. Just one last point..  Masks slow the spread, Slowing the spread buys time. Time buys vaccines and keeps the load off the hospitals. Wearing a mask for almost 100% of the population is not a health risk, though I accept there are cases where people need face view for communication and special needs, people are just too selfish and it’s so little effort required, masks and hand washing.

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Just to be clear, I don't intend for this thread to turn into a political discussion.  I worked for a company in Silicon Valley for 15 years doing a wide variety of things (mostly hardware, not software) after working another 10 years in heavy duty businesses like trucks, engines, generators, power distribution gear, etc.  So most of my life I've viewed engineering as problem-solving and bringing greater utility to my fellow humans.  All of this energy conversion, transportation, communication hardware has improved the lives of many people by performing simple functions to meet needs.  I've always been a bit suspicious of the popular software/services running on computing hardware because the business models and motivations are very opaque to the average person.  If you need an engine or a satellite link, it's a simple benefit vs. cost discussion and it's clear what you're buying.  But if you get sucked into "free" social media, there's something going on in the background that people don't understand, and it affects their thinking/acting without them realizing it.  That's really quite nefarious and worth bringing to our attention since social stability, governmental structure, absolute truth, and moral standards are at stake.

The way many of the interviewees talk in this documentary is really quite shocking.  They'll talk about how they need more users in some part of the world and start turning the dials on their algorithms, whether that is driving engagement, or growth, or ad delivery.  There are classes at Standford University about "persuasive technology" where design patterns and techniques for hooking people are taught; all of this is based on psychology and leveraging how our brains function.  There's a great discussion how computing power has increased a trillion times in recent history, yet automobiles might be 2x better than they used to be.  Other items are marginally better. Our brains have not evolved at all, though.  What we have, then, is a pool of humans with no evolution to their basic psychological makeup pitted against vastly increasing levels of computing power and sophistication of the algorithms driving them.  It's really quite scary as the algorithms learn what people like and feed them more and more related content, which in turn narrows perspective, which in turn reduces tolerance for other points of view, which then leads to rising tensions and social instability.  Why else do you see factions like Antifa, BLM, Proud Boys, etc. coalescing?  Yet, at the same time, these social media companies are raking in the money as they create channels to propagate targeted advertising.  I just read the other day that the overall stock market would actually be doing more poorly if it weren't for the top five or so social media companies.

Just a simple Google search has become almost unusable for me.  I used to be able to enter a few search terms and get some genuinely interesting, independent results to explore.  Now, nearly the whole first page of results is advertising and the second page of results is not nearly as useful as it used to be.  I'm pretty convinced advertising has become the priority and the diversity of information/opinion has narrowed considerably in the last decade.  It's really unsettling and basically renders the service useless (to me).

Here's a taste of the Netflix special; similar themes are here:

I just want to raise awareness.  We owe it to ourselves and to our children to maintain broad views and be critical thinkers.

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Agreed.  Between social media and rampant misinformation, the general public reaches new hieghts of stupidity with every passing day.

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2 hours ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

 

Agreed.  Between social media and rampant misinformation, the general public reaches new hieghts of stupidity with every passing day.

 

Well, this is the only form of social media I use.. so if I catch a case of the stupid I’m blaming you guys...

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4 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Just to be clear, I don't intend for this thread to turn into a political discussion. 

I understand and respect that but its somewhat difficult as what's currently occurring in the US is probably the most pertinent example going at the moment. You could drag the pandemic into it as well since its unfortunately been politicized. Being outside of neurotypicals as well as most forms of social media and an ardent studier of human behavior fortunately gives me a little perspective, though I utterly lack the first hand experience of the addictive nature of social media. Until I made the connection, I felt the world was slowly descending into madness as I tend to be a bit rigid and unchanging myself. Then I began to equate the downfall with the internet or rather how it was being used. The fact it can be identified and broken down is beneficial to me. Some of the worst problems are ones that go unidentified in my world. This oddly connects to what's happening with the perception of the danger level of Covid.

The unique aspect is we are at a perfect storm moment (in the US in particular) where social media has reached a point where it has infested our lives combined with a pandemic and leadership that could not have come to pass 15 years ago. At one time we received our information from more typical media sources like the newspaper or the TV news. While I won't deny this media possibly has a liberal slant at times (basically coming down on what's being covered or not), the media generally strove for the truth. Getting caught tampering with the truth was serious and destroyed credibility which was vital to viewer/readership. The mere fact that Fox news sets out to have a conservative slant from the get-go to oppose the supposedly liberal media bias before it, means they're starting from the wrong spot to begin with IMHO.

But we don't just get our info this way anymore. With the internet/social media, its possibly to say just about anything with no facts to back it up and there are no repercussions. Once this dreck gets out there, it snowballs into a larger, greater idea of misinformation. Snippets that would appeal to certain demographics are compounded into a larger whole and fed to them. You wind up with a whole alternate reality based on this rampant spread of misinformation that differs so greatly from the facts, one is left wondering if  the people we converse with are from the same planet at times. Add this to leadership with absolutely no scruples and we are in for a disaster. Covid should have been a wake up call. Someone can try to twist the narrative anyway they want to suit their desires but mother nature doesn't work that way. And yet, the power of whats possible with social media and its alternate narratives blunted that wake up call. People still try to see it as a hoax.

I know much of it comes about from fear whether we realize it of not (and I don't mean the constant fear mongering we hear from our leader). What's more scary? 1. A dangerous virus is spreading and potentially killing people, loved ones etc. and it doesn't think, it doesn't care, it just causes harm. You can't reason with it, bargain with it or punish it. You can't even see it with your naked eye. or  2. The virus isn't so bad, its just being hyped by the media and the opposing political party just to make the current leadership look bad so they can gain power. There's a conspiracy afoot and once exposed, we can go back to life as normal. 

So which is more attractive and less scary? The unrelenting force of nature or the big bad scary guys in the shadows that we can expose and bring to justice. Hmmm.

4 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Just a simple Google search has become almost unusable for me.  I used to be able to enter a few search terms and get some genuinely interesting, independent results to explore.  Now, nearly the whole first page of results is advertising and the second page of results is not nearly as useful as it used to be.  I'm pretty convinced advertising has become the priority and the diversity of information/opinion has narrowed considerably in the last decade.  It's really unsettling and basically renders the service useless (to me).

^^^This. Plowing through this garbage makes research an arduous endeavor for me now. 

31 minutes ago, Lee76 said:

Well, this is the only form of social media I use.. so if I catch a case of the stupid I’m blaming you guys.

I'm in the same boat so don't all of you give me a case of stupid either (unless its blowing more money on Tamiya).

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2 hours ago, Lee76 said:

Well, this is the only form of social media I use.. so if I catch a case of the stupid I’m blaming you guys...

 

2 hours ago, Saito2 said:

 

I'm in the same boat so don't all of you give me a case of stupid either (unless its blowing more money on Tamiya).

I was thinking more along the lines of TikTok and Youtube conspiracy videos but if given the opportunity, I'll surely lead you down the wrong path...

 

IMG_0718.JPG

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14 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

I just want to raise awareness.  We owe it to ourselves and to our children to maintain broad views and be critical thinkers.

Especially our children as they grow up thinking its 'normal' to be stuck with your head in a screen 24hrs a day. 

I look at one for more than half an hour I I feel like a Zombie.  A  (possibly potential) son in law is living with us at the moment and has put Netflix on the TV so will definitely be giving these a look. 

I really just hope that anyone/thing tracking/watching my internet behaviour better be prepared to be bored out their brains.

 

EDIT- I suppose it was called the information super highway for good reason then

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17 minutes ago, Re-Bugged said:

Especially our children as they grow up thinking its 'normal' to be stuck with your head in a screen 24hrs a day. 

I look at one for more than half an hour I I feel like a Zombie.  A  (possibly potential) son in law is living with us at the moment and has put Netflix on the TV so will definitely be giving these a look. 

I really just hope that anyone/thing tracking/watching my internet behaviour better be prepared to be bored out their brains.

Maybe, just maybe they'll(BIG Brother AKA Village Idiots) get into RC and purchase a wonderful Tamiya kit (or two or more) and perhaps learn something else.

Well it could happen.

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3 minutes ago, ACCEL said:

Maybe, just maybe they'll get into RC and purchase a wonderful Tamiya kit (or two or more) and perhaps learn something else.

Well it could happen.

Not for the lack of trying with my two, but alas, not to be. Just me then. My daughter does give good advice on paint schemes though so I'll give her that :)

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4 minutes ago, Re-Bugged said:

Not for the lack of trying with my two, but alas, not to be. Just me then. My daughter does give good advice on paint schemes though so I'll give her that :)

I'm talking about the village idiots that have nothing better else to do than try to keep tabs on us(Big Brother) not your kids:D

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Intersting thread!!

Reaches far more than political views, but spending habits and life choices!

Market forces have always played with our heads, most of us wouldn't be on this page, if it wasn't for endless loops of toy cars running on a beach, in our local hobby shops.

Our data ,our footprint, is being harvested like no other time in history though,  and with relative ease.

There was a case for lowering a speed limit ,on a duel carriageway near me, and the fitting of average speed cameras. The objections where heard in a local town hall meeting. In the case for, mobile phone data was used to prove that, at certain times of the day, the average speed was almost 90mph, with one exceeding 140mph. The upshot was that average speed cameras where fitted, and that our mobile phones are grassing us up, location switch on or not (phone mast triangulation works out approx position anyway)

So, where do we get ,unbiased "facts" in a modern world?

Newspapers?

News TV stations?

Social media?

🤔🤷‍♂️

 

2020-09-18_09-39-04

 

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15 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

So, where do we get ,unbiased "facts" in a modern world?

Newspapers?

News TV stations?

Social media?

None of the above:o

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12 hours ago, ACCEL said:

None of the above:o

So, who do you decide who to vote for, seeing as there's a US election coming up...🤷‍♂️

(I'm in the UK, so just watching on)

 

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3 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

So, who do you decide who to vote for, seeing as there's a US election coming up...🤷‍♂️

Its a good question because, in varying degrees based on the type of news outlet, Accel is right. In the case of this election its made somewhat easier. I just listen to the words and watch the actions of the current president. In so doing, you can eliminate hearsay or ambiguity. I don't mean to drag us into a huge political debate but I can sight examples that work for me currently, popular of otherwise.

Trump has been accused by multiple sources of referring to fallen soldiers as "losers" and "suckers". Do I personally believe those stories are true and he said those things? Knowing Trump (he is not a complex individual), yes, I believe the likelihood he made those remarks is high. But, there is room for argument, so while I believe it, I don't expect everybody else to as well, and I think that's fair. In this situation, decide for yourself.

Then there's the case of downplaying the virus. This is a textbook example of what I'm referring to. You can remove media involvement and just look at Trump's words and actions. They are all facts and his own words. Trump is on tape in February admitting he was aware of the seriousness of the virus, how it was transmitted and that he "liked to downplay it".  In his actions and words in the months following, he did just that. That's not being truthful to the American people about a serious health threat. Dead bang. His words. His actions. It can't be misconstrued or spun any other way. Just the facts. I can use that (and many similar instances in the past 3.5 years, let alone his entire life) to base an opinion on without media involvement. There may be those that argue whether information should be kept from the people "for their own good" and that's another argument. But, I ask, if he downplayed it to not cause fear in the American public, why does his whole campaign revolve around inducing/preying upon fears for his own gain?(again all caught on video at his various speeches) Are we supposed to be scared into reelecting him but not recognize Covid 19 as a legitimate danger?

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On the subject of being watched, I see the latest phone updates now have ‘Exposure Notifications’ that you can opt in to if you don’t what download the Covid tracking app in Australia. 
Easy to find on an iPhone but my daughters boyfriend had to dig into the guts of his Samsung to find it and alter the settings.

I guess it’s a day closer to becoming  just a number.

 

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I finished the documentary up last night. ****htening stuff. It left me with little hope honestly. The whole thing is a vicious cycle and since profit and monetary gain is involved (with some over the biggest companies on the planet), I don't quite see how it can be broken. Most people are oblivious to it and even if they were alerted, I don't feel they could break the addiction. Legislation is about the only way but I feel its so far behind the curve (especially with the pace of tech) that its hopeless. 

It did shred some light on the current state of affairs. I surmised for years that groups like the flat earthers had sprung up thanks to the internet bringing them together. What I didn't know was just how expertly social media did that process for them. It created customized echo chambers, reinforcing beliefs rather than questioning or challenging them. Critical analysis and thinking disappear and people are left thinking they're right about everything while subtly be guided to other conspiracy theories. The ramifications of possible mass behavior modifications are staggering when you think about it. It explains how some people could come to the conclusion that an opposing political party is part of some larger "new world order" preparing the world for the coming of the devil and that wearing mask and social distancing is somehow intertwined with the secret microchips that will supposedly be implanted with any Covid vaccine to control us (I know actual people that wholeheartedly believe this with utter conviction). If one gets sucked into that loop (and the "ai" has deemed them "vulnerable" to that type of thought pattern) how could those people ever see through all that? People like to be right about things and this tech is just reinforcing these fictions for them. Truly disturbing. Anybody have suggestions on possible solutions? 

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