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So my SRB runner was built with a sport tuned motor. I burned the first motor years ago.. so when I replaced it, it went with the smaller spur pinion option. Today, my son was running it in the yard on grass.. after first pack I noticed it was warm.. a few minutes into second pack and car stopped.   Motor was definitely hot and smelled crispy!  Now a few years have passed between burnt motors but I recalled the old one stopped because one of the brushes had detached. So I looked in armature window and yep, same issue. 
 

So I’m now considering other motors options. I modded. Gear box years back to accept a standard brushed can and I’ve seen @Shodog 13t HW EZrun combo.

im wondering if there are any other options? 

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Thats odd its burning out motors?   I take it the wheels turn freely without the motor in?

I have a Torque Tuned motor on 2s LiPo with LiPo compatible ESC in my Re-Re SRB with the high speed gears installed and runs well,  hasn't cooked a motor yet. I do have the Ball Diff in it though maybe that helps I'm not sure.

If you don't have a Diff in it could be straining on the high traction of the grass when turning. I'd only drive on loose surfaces without a Diff.

 

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I've been running a Kyosho Magnetic Mayhem motor (22T) and Novak Rooster ESC in my modified SRB since 2003. Never had an overheating issue with it and performance is good despite my SRB running larger Mad Bull wheels and tyres and heavy alloy chassis plates and body posts etc. Not sure if that motor is still available these days but there must be similar specs.

The Magnetic mayhem was bought at the time because it was a torquey motor in its day (early 2000's) but not overly mental - used it in loads of my vintage buggies and trucks. I still have a few of them brand new in my spares pile because I bought loads of them at the time.

I think I'm running a 70T spur but can't be 100% sure of that. Also agree with @Re-Bugged, I don't run my SRB's on high traction surfaces.

img1721_25082003183925_1.jpg

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I couldn't tell that was an SRB chassis for a start it dose look heavy the tyres look a bit flat at the bottom it looks cool. I enjoyed the video of @Re-Bugged SRB too. I have always driven my SRB on grass and high traction areas without a ball diff as I didn't know they were available until last year but never had a problem with burning out motors and I have driven 3 different sand scorchers on grass vintage and re release. It sounds a bit like something is wrong some were is the grease in the gearbox really thick as grease can dry out over time. are the front wheels free or stiff as I have known front wheels be a tight fit on the axel and do not turn easily I have a hornet like that. But The diff conclusion could add to the strain as it the wheels are trying to go different speeds but cant as there's no diff. Also if it is over greased it will put a strain on the motor also if grease gets flicked into the motor it will ark and blacken the comm as its not making a good contact. these are just theory's but maybe worth looking into just in case    332.thumb.JPG.c2d64999917047c0584c2ef9168a60cd.JPG

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2 hours ago, Doc Hollywood said:

I couldn't tell that was an SRB chassis for a start it dose look heavy the tyres look a bit flat at the bottom it looks cool. 

Thank you!

It is defo an SRB, just a heavily modded one. It is all DIY stuff, cut the alloy plates out with a jigsaw and dremel etc.  Mods are:

1) The steering servo saver is actually a stronger original R5 turbo one (I think)

2) the steering rods are home made from larger diameter threaded rod

3) the bump stops have been ground off the arms to allow more suspension travel

4) has home made upper and lower chassis plates from thick alloy plate

5) uses standard CVA shocks front and rear

6) uses flexible plastic body posts when running the polycarb shells

7) Kyosho Magnetic Mayhem 22T motor, Novak Rooster ESC and 2000mah NiMH stick pack (not humped)

8) home made (on a lathe) front axle extensions to allow mad bull / monster beetle wheels to fit.

9) Mad Bull tyres on blackfoot/monster beatle wheels

10) ESC and receiver go in a splashproof box (with a cooling fan fitted for prolonged use)

11) For beach use (and wet running) the motor is fitted with a rear cover that stops dirt ingress into the brushes/comm etc

I only fit the rear motor cover when running on the beach or through puddles etc ffor short period otherwise the motor can overheat. However the cover does stop any dirt getting into brushes/comm and prevents motor being ruined on sand or in seawater.

 

SRB waterproofCooling.jpg

SRB_front_end_mods.jpg

SRB_waterproof_cover.jpg

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10 hours ago, Re-Bugged said:

Thats odd its burning out motors?   I take it the wheels turn freely without the motor in?

I have a Torque Tuned motor on 2s LiPo with LiPo compatible ESC in my Re-Re SRB with the high speed gears installed and runs well,  hasn't cooked a motor yet. I do have the Ball Diff in it though maybe that helps I'm not sure.

If you don't have a Diff in it could be straining on the high traction of the grass when turning. I'd only drive on loose surfaces without a Diff.

 

The previous time it happened was on dirt and ball diff was installed then. I’m going to open the motor when I get back home and will post pictures. 

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6 hours ago, Doc Hollywood said:

I couldn't tell that was an SRB chassis for a start it dose look heavy the tyres look a bit flat at the bottom it looks cool. I enjoyed the video of @Re-Bugged SRB too. I have always driven my SRB on grass and high traction areas without a ball diff as I didn't know they were available until last year but never had a problem with burning out motors and I have driven 3 different sand scorchers on grass vintage and re release. It sounds a bit like something is wrong some were is the grease in the gearbox really thick as grease can dry out over time. are the front wheels free or stiff as I have known front wheels be a tight fit on the axel and do not turn easily I have a hornet like that. But The diff conclusion could add to the strain as it the wheels are trying to go different speeds but cant as there's no diff. Also if it is over greased it will put a strain on the motor also if grease gets flicked into the motor it will ark and blacken the comm as its not making a good contact. these are just theory's but maybe worth looking into just in case    332.thumb.JPG.c2d64999917047c0584c2ef9168a60cd.JPG

I don’t grease the gearbox. I use finish line ceramic wax lube (used on Bicycles). It bonds to gears and has very low resistance in gear box. 

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I’m not so concerned as to why the ST motor burned. End of the day, it’s a brushed motor with bushings.. so it can’t only handle so much. 
 

I plan on modding the transmission case so that I can screw the motor from front endbell, as I did years back. Just can decide if I want to keep it brushed and throw a Super Stock Rz in there or go brushless. 
 

The ESC I have is a Novak capable of running brushed and brushless (sensored only) 

The HobbyWing that @Shodog is running is discontinued. This seems to be the replacement .. https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/products/ezrun-max10-combo?variant=27757683857

 

 

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5 hours ago, mud4fun said:

 

1) The steering servo saver is actually a stronger original R5 turbo one (I think)

I use the same one. I added an extension to it to move the tie rods back a little bit and steering throw improved immensely. It now has really good steering radius. 
 

 

image.jpg

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10 hours ago, Raman36 said:

The previous time it happened was on dirt and ball diff was installed then. I’m going to open the motor when I get back home and will post pictures. 

I cut some of the foam packaging from a LiPo battery box and stuffed in the holes where the motor wires go in to help keep the dirt out. More easily removed if necessary then filling it with a Silicone

FFBEF404-1875-4A27-927A-902DBEA75CE5.md.
 

If you go Brushless, there was an end cap on Shapeways somewhere so they are easier to fit. It may have been for ReRe’s only as I believe the vintage gearbox is slightly different. 
 

Edit- this one,  https://www.shapeways.com/product/YXERYAFWC/tamiya-sand-scorcher-srb-brushless-motor-mount?optionId=100943779&li=marketplace

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Nice.. thank you... funny that they designed it around the tamiya TBLM-02S as they are not common here in the US. Tamiya USA specs Reedy motors for their TCS races lol. The design of the motor can appears to be like the old Speedpassion motors. 

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12 hours ago, skinned said:

Brushless.....17.5... Maybe a 13.5...

13.5 most likely since it’s a heavy pig. I also have the RC Channel rear suspension, so handles really well

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Hi my friend,

As you already have  a speedo for it, I recommend you to go brushless. I did it some years back in my Rere, and never have regretted it.

You can check in my showroom:

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=120588&id=34024

I fitted a 17,5t Speed passion MMM motor, which fits into the protrusion in the gearbox like the original motor. Cover is an 50cent HT tub plumpers end cap from grey plastic, painted black and cut to a slightly trochoid shape. I´m running it in sensorless mode, but think since this year about going sensored. I would have just to build in the sensor plate again, and make another hole. I like these speed passion motors as well as the Tamiyas for their plug connectors. So after running on the beach, I just screwed out the 2 screws for the radio box, popped off the servo rod and pulled the 3 connectors from the motor. Then rinsed the hole car every evening with water in the garden to get the fine sand off. Afterwars sprayed the chassis with some shots of Ballistol to prevent it from saltwater corrosion.

Of course, after such a beach holiday you have to take apart some more parts for maintenance, but during vaccation this is time saving.

Another plus is the easy tear down of this motor type. You really can take it apart to clean out debris or make some maintenance. (which is only cleaning and lubricating the ball bearings.) In my original Scorcher from my dad, the brushed motor died one day in the nineties, as the spring holding the magnets in the housing was rusted down by condense water, and the magnets hit the rotor at full throttle.:lol: Was happy back then, that it was no gear crush...:P

Runtimes are great, I use 2s shorty packs in mine in the original radio box. You can use the faster gearing with the 17,5t, torque is there, so a 13,5t is not really needed in my opinion. (But would be no problem for the gearbox).

So just 2 remarks in the end: You do not have to necessarily drill holes in the gearbox to mount a brushless in it. My whole conversion can be converted back without traces. Second remark: Runtime is great and always precious, when you are on the beach with an SRB!:D

But o.k.,

keen on your solution in the end...

Kind regards,

Matthias

 

 

 

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Diagnosis is in.. same as the last time.. one of the brushes broke off at the arm, seems heat made it snap and it shot to corner and embed itself against the plastic wall.. 

IMG_7734.JPG

IMG_7735.JPG

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On 9/15/2020 at 10:20 AM, ruebiracer said:

Hi my friend,

As you already have  a speedo for it, I recommend you to go brushless. I did it some years back in my Rere, and never have regretted it.

You can check in my showroom:

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=120588&id=34024

I fitted a 17,5t Speed passion MMM motor, which fits into the protrusion in the gearbox like the original motor. Cover is an 50cent HT tub plumpers end cap from grey plastic, painted black and cut to a slightly trochoid shape. I´m running it in sensorless mode, but think since this year about going sensored. I would have just to build in the sensor plate again, and make another hole. I like these speed passion motors as well as the Tamiyas for their plug connectors. So after running on the beach, I just screwed out the 2 screws for the radio box, popped off the servo rod and pulled the 3 connectors from the motor. Then rinsed the hole car every evening with water in the garden to get the fine sand off. Afterwars sprayed the chassis with some shots of Ballistol to prevent it from saltwater corrosion.

Of course, after such a beach holiday you have to take apart some more parts for maintenance, but during vaccation this is time saving.

Another plus is the easy tear down of this motor type. You really can take it apart to clean out debris or make some maintenance. (which is only cleaning and lubricating the ball bearings.) In my original Scorcher from my dad, the brushed motor died one day in the nineties, as the spring holding the magnets in the housing was rusted down by condense water, and the magnets hit the rotor at full throttle.:lol: Was happy back then, that it was no gear crush...:P

Runtimes are great, I use 2s shorty packs in mine in the original radio box. You can use the faster gearing with the 17,5t, torque is there, so a 13,5t is not really needed in my opinion. (But would be no problem for the gearbox).

So just 2 remarks in the end: You do not have to necessarily drill holes in the gearbox to mount a brushless in it. My whole conversion can be converted back without traces. Second remark: Runtime is great and always precious, when you are on the beach with an SRB!:D

But o.k.,

keen on your solution in the end...

Kind regards,

Matthias

 

 

 

Hey Matthias,

Aren't you Vacation lol?   Thanks for the link.. Yours has a Lexan?  wow.. looks amazing.  Funny are cars are very similar in options.. Im taking mine apart to clean and will post.  I just removed gear box and noted that one of the Novak Ballistics I have lying around fits in the case.  The lugs also line up with the motor holes.  I foresee two issues.  The ballistic stators had plastic colours to differentiate the turns.. and it has a little bit of enamel.. so I would have to shave off the enamel for the motor to go into housing.  Then there is the question of the solder tabs.... those could come into contact with housing as well and would need to be trimmed back.  

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Hi my friend,

yes I am! But near the sea I feel the need and miss my Scorcher already, although the beach here isn´t the ideal Scorcher beach anyway!:lol:

Cars are even more similar, as I adapted your steering setup, if you remember! I made a Parma Lexan shell first in 2013, and never found the time to finish my original ABS. But that will happen in the future! Somehow I find it a bit of a sacrifice to run this car with a Lexan one.:rolleyes: So with that issues of the ballistic, it´s maybe easier to source a plug connector motor from Tamiya, Speed passion or some other brand? But I think there are some more scorchers on TC, which are built also with solder tabs on the side. You just have to ensure the isolation versus the gear housing.

Anyway, I know you will get it done. 

By the way, the RC channel rear IRS suspension is great as you say. I´m still happy taking the money for it back then...

Kind regards,

Matthias

 

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On 9/14/2020 at 7:47 PM, skinned said:

Brushless.....17.5... Maybe a 13.5...

13.5 most likely since it’s a heavy pig. I also have the RC Channel rear suspension, so handles really well

 

On 9/16/2020 at 3:37 AM, ruebiracer said:

Hi my friend,

yes I am! But near the sea I feel the need and miss my Scorcher already, although the beach here isn´t the ideal Scorcher beach anyway!:lol:

Cars are even more similar, as I adapted your steering setup, if you remember! I made a Parma Lexan shell first in 2013, and never found the time to finish my original ABS. But that will happen in the future! Somehow I find it a bit of a sacrifice to run this car with a Lexan one.:rolleyes: So with that issues of the ballistic, it´s maybe easier to source a plug connector motor from Tamiya, Speed passion or some other brand? But I think there are some more scorchers on TC, which are built also with solder tabs on the side. You just have to ensure the isolation versus the gear housing.

Anyway, I know you will get it done. 

By the way, the RC channel rear IRS suspension is great as you say. I´m still happy taking the money for it back then...

Kind regards,

Matthias

 

Agree.. the TC Channel was a well worth investment.  Really makes the car more drivable. I’m also using an aluminium chassis that spans that shape of the radio box.. can’t recall where I bought it.. but it’s super stiff.  Edit: Its the RadShapeRC ButterFLy Chassis.  Seems they don't make it anymore.  
 

I have a lot of Novak Ballistic motors don’t I figure I can sacrifice them a little bit and also not spend money when I need to. I also believe I fixed the motor issue. I trimmed the plastic tab back and now motor fits. Wire Tabs come extremely close to gear box housing, but can be trimmed or bent. But I have a solution.  I plan on drilling a motor mount hole exactly where the lugs are. Then I will use the 3450994 motor spacer for TB05, which will give me about 2mm.  
 

I’ve been meaning to ask.. how did you route the A/B/C wires and sensor wires into gear box?  Drill new holes? 

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11 minutes ago, Raman36 said:

I’ve been meaning to ask.. how did you route the A/B/C wires and sensor wires into gear box?  Drill new holes? 

Actually, I managed to keep everything original: The 3 motor wires go through the sealing under the radiobox together with my wires for the LED lights. Receiver antenna is 2,4Ghz and stays inside the box. Super tight, soldered the tabs afterwards, but it´s also very good sealed.(by leaving no space for water)

But for my plans to fit an additional sensor wire, I think this is a problem and I don´t think to be able to get the sensor cables outside the same way. Probably have to find a new outlet for the LED wires. Then it could work.

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13 hours ago, Raman36 said:

Diagnosis is in.. same as the last time.. one of the brushes broke off at the arm, seems heat made it snap and it shot to corner and embed itself against the plastic wall.. 

IMG_7734.JPG

IMG_7735.JPG

What could be a contributing reason for me is, that it seems to have the plastic end bell and no real vent holes compared to motors with the steel end bell. And in the Scorcher gearbox, the motors are without any ventilation, and only live from the heat transfer to the gearbox. Maybe the brush really was getting just too hot in the end... 

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I agree, its definitely lack of ventilation.  The brush arm became very hot and it just sheared off.  Did not help that a  7 year old driving it full throttle, making a turn and full throttle again... yet since the same thing happened a few years back, before he was even born! ;)  

 

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56 minutes ago, Raman36 said:

13.5 most likely since it’s a heavy pig. I also have the RC Channel rear suspension, so handles really well

 

Agree.. the TC Channel was a well worth investment.  Really makes the car more drivable. I’m also using an aluminium chassis that spans that shape of the radio box.. can’t recall where I bought it.. but it’s super stiff. 

An aluminum chassis that spans the box is nice! My box is unprotected at the sides, as I use a full Aluminum copy of the std. chassis in addition to the FRP plate. (Just like my dad did it on his Scorcher.) So it was just getting some alu sheet, and copy the original plate. It´s super stiff, although I did use some cheap Alu with no high grade. Nowadays I´d buy the RC channel chassis, they had the same idea and offer it quite cheap:

http://www.rcchannel.com.tw/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=494&osCsid=u2a8igsd6oeuf8nk752ervm2k7

Maybe an idea for some Scorcher drivers here.

For going a bit ambitious and save especially the hard body, the chassis definetely has to be stiffened. The FRP single plate flexes during a crash and brings the body mounting points closer to each other. You can imagine, what this does to the ABS body...:lol:

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Raman36 said:

I agree, its definitely lack of ventilation.  The brush arm became very hot and it just sheared off.  Did not help that a  7 year old driving it full throttle, making a turn and full throttle again... yet since the same thing happened a few years back, before he was even born! ;)  

 

Driving style of his dad? Nothing wrong with it!;)

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On 9/15/2020 at 11:23 PM, Raman36 said:

Diagnosis is in.. same as the last time.. one of the brushes broke off at the arm, seems heat made it snap and it shot to corner and embed itself against the plastic wall.. 

IMG_7734.JPG

 

I'm more fascinated that the motor has noise suppression capacitors built-in to the endbell on the inside.  I had no idea this was a thing.  Which motor is this?  The Tamiya Sport Tuned w/black case? 

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1 hour ago, Champ85 said:

I'm more fascinated that the motor has noise suppression capacitors built-in to the endbell on the inside.  I had no idea this was a thing.  Which motor is this?  The Tamiya Sport Tuned w/black case? 

Yep

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