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wintersdawn

Brushed or Brushless?

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I am interested in the HPI Maverick Short Course RTR truck but they do one in blue that has a 540 brushed motor (22T) which I can get for £114 and a red one with a brushless motor for £184.  I am used to Tamiya's with standard 540 motors and wondered if I might find the brushless model a bit hard to handle/control?  It comes with a 3000 nimh battery with a deans/t connector so might not be quite so fast as using lipo.

Any advice would be appreciated, cheers.

 

MV12625_2.jpg

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Really not a big deal to drive a brushless car. My six-year old manages.

Even I can drive a brushless car, sort of, and if I can do it, then anyone can.

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If you don't mind the extra coins, I would go for the brushless option. If it really turns out to be too hard to control (and I doubt it) you can always take it easy on the throttle at first, while on the other end a brushed 22T will only go that fast.

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Top speed depends on the turns or kV rating.  When comparing equivalent ratings, brushless tends to have longer runtime and less heat.  

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53 minutes ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

Top speed depends on the turns or kV rating.  When comparing equivalent ratings, brushless tends to have longer runtime and less heat.  

Yeah that's right what he said:D

if any one gets serious about staying with brushless (which i grew up with and have plenty) then you get into rebuilding them and that's a new and fun learning curve.

you can always go brushless later also. i've just always liked every nifty motor i've seen and purchased, there fun to install no matter what it is.

just watch your gearing that's another heat generator.

 

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SO much depends on more than brushless vs brushed. Pros and cons for each. With that RTR truck I would just buy what is cheapest. That 22T brushed motor is a lot more powerful than a Tamiya 540 silver can. No guarantee that the brushless will be faster. I like brushless for longer runtimes and longer motor life. My brushless motors are less powerful than many of my brushed motors. My brushless motors are sensored so can't deal with water like brushed motors can. I have problems gearing my brushless motors properly. Even if you buy the brushed version and you think it is too slow, you can replace the motor and ESC with brushless for less than the 70 pound premium that the brushless truck goes for, and you can guarantee that it will be faster because you know what you're putting in there.

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8 hours ago, Quailane said:

SO much depends on more than brushless vs brushed. Pros and cons for each. With that RTR truck I would just buy what is cheapest. That 22T brushed motor is a lot more powerful than a Tamiya 540 silver can. No guarantee that the brushless will be faster. I like brushless for longer runtimes and longer motor life. My brushless motors are less powerful than many of my brushed motors. My brushless motors are sensored so can't deal with water like brushed motors can. I have problems gearing my brushless motors properly. Even if you buy the brushed version and you think it is too slow, you can replace the motor and ESC with brushless for less than the 70 pound premium that the brushless truck goes for, and you can guarantee that it will be faster because you know what you're putting in there.

Cheers, lots of great info there. 

I did change my mind and ordered the brushed version last night as I did some research and as you say I can upgrade to brushless for a lot less than the £70 higher price of the RTR brushless version.  This way I can try out the 22T 540 motor first for speed (standard Tamiya 540 silver can seems to be 27T, so as you say it will already be faster than my Tamiya vehicles).  If I'd like it to be faster, the ESC can handle a brushed 12 turn motor so can also go that route and might be fast enough for me.

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I reckon the 22 turn brushed will be pretty quick, you might find it is enough and that is a very good price (goes off searching the internet...)

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16 minutes ago, Juictetin said:

I reckon the 22 turn brushed will be pretty quick, you might find it is enough and that is a very good price (goes off searching the internet...)

Cheers, yeah it might be fast enough.

I ordered mine from Time Tunnel Models in the U.K. as they have the option to remove the included battery and charger (I've got plenty of batteries and a 1-5A charger) bringing the price down from £129 to £114.  

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Found this video giving a speed of 18 mph with the standard motor using a nimh battery.  This was on grass so perhaps on a smooth surface it might reach 20 mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29KkqnCR3-A&ab_channel=TrekRC

They go on to test the speed with 2s & 3s batteries but I don't understand how as the standard ESC has a Tamiya battery connector, maybe they used an adapter for Deans/T connectors?

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Got the answer to the above, they soldered XT60 connectors to their ESC lead and tamiya/lipo batteries.

All new world to me regarding lipo, having only used tamiya batteries up till now.

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Just FYI, there's also a huge difference in "feel" between brushed and brushless motors. Brushless setups don't seem to accelerate as much as they just start going at the speed you request -  it's hard to describe but it's a very "cold" feel. Not at all realistic, and, to me anyway, not at all engaging. I couldn't stand it, which is why I gave up the two brushless systems I had.

But then, I've essentially given up on anything more powerful than a silver-can these days, so your mileage may vary.

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44 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

Just FYI, there's also a huge difference in "feel" between brushed and brushless motors. Brushless setups don't seem to accelerate as much as they just start going at the speed you request -  it's hard to describe but it's a very "cold" feel. Not at all realistic, and, to me anyway, not at all engaging. I couldn't stand it, which is why I gave up the two brushless systems I had.

But then, I've essentially given up on anything more powerful than a silver-can these days, so your mileage may vary.

Thanks for the info :-)

I do prefer faster acceleration especially if space is limited.  Sounds like brushless may have better top speed but slower acceleration which may not be as exciting/engaging.

I am glad I went for the cheaper brushed version now from feedback here and may find it fast enough in stock form or with a 15 or 12T upgrade.

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Just started wondering that if I upgrade to a lower turn motor whether I will also lose some torque which might translate to lesser off-road ability in some way?  If this is true, if I can be happy with the 22T motor, I may retain more torque.

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Might be worth investing in one of the cheap 15 turn motors such as Core RC or Absima Thrust, both under a tenner .  I presume your speedo will be able to handle them okay. 

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Thanks, my ESC can handle 12T, 30000 KV.

Can I use the existing pinion & spur gear when upgrading to a different brushed/brushless motor? Cheers

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See what you think of the speed first, you might find it's pretty well-suited to the kit 22T motor. Will you be running NiMh or LiPo?

The kit standard brushed ESC in the Maverick is a licensed copy of the Hobbywing 1040 (which stands for 10th scale, 40 amp). It can handle 3S LiPo power and down to a 12T motor limit, though I wouldn't recommend that on an off-road car, it will lead to thermal issues.

If you're upgrading to Brushless then you'll need a new ESC and motor. The spur and pinion should be fine to re-use, but be aware that some RTR models assembled in the factory have the pinion grub screw tightened with thread lock, so it might be a ****** to get off!

 

 

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37 minutes ago, ChrisRx718 said:

See what you think of the speed first, you might find it's pretty well-suited to the kit 22T motor. Will you be running NiMh or LiPo?

The kit standard brushed ESC in the Maverick is a licensed copy of the Hobbywing 1040 (which stands for 10th scale, 40 amp). It can handle 3S LiPo power and down to a 12T motor limit, though I wouldn't recommend that on an off-road car, it will lead to thermal issues.

If you're upgrading to Brushless then you'll need a new ESC and motor. The spur and pinion should be fine to re-use, but be aware that some RTR models assembled in the factory have the pinion grub screw tightened with thread lock, so it might be a ****** to get off!

 

 

Cheers for the info. I'm using NiMH with the current 22T set-up with a Tamiya plug. Got a few NiMH batteries with tamiya plugs so thought I would try a lower turn brushed motor first as I would have to change to deans connectors (I think) if I get a brushless ESC.  After running it a bit I feel it could do with a bit more speed.

It will be used off-road too so if I stick with the existing ESC, maybe 15T is the lowest turn I should go? Cheers

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Thanks to the advice here I understand that I can re-use the existing pinion and spur gear when upgrading the motor to either brushed or brushless but I am struggling to find the shaft diameter of my existing mm-22 540 motor, needing this to ensure that the replacement motor has the same diameter shaft so the existing pinion will fit :(

 

 

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1 hour ago, wintersdawn said:

Thanks to the advice here I understand that I can re-use the existing pinion and spur gear when upgrading the motor to either brushed or brushless but I am struggling to find the shaft diameter of my existing mm-22 540 motor, needing this to ensure that the replacement motor has the same diameter shaft so the existing pinion will fit :(

 

 

It will almost certainly be a 3.175mm diameter shaft. If it's not I'll eat my hat.

 

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2 minutes ago, ChrisRx718 said:

It will almost certainly be a 3.175mm diameter shaft. If it's not I'll eat my hat.

 

Cheers.  Hopefully that is a standard motor shaft diameter, maybe that's why they don't always state the size.

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A first upgrade recommended for the Maverick Strada SC is to change the stock 17T pinion with a 19T to get a higher top speed, I'm sure this won't make as much difference as changing the motor to a more powerful one but might be worth a try for £4.

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3.175mm and 5mm are standard motor shaft sizes. Often 5mm pinions are sold with an adapter so they can be used on a 3.175mm shaft.

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3 minutes ago, Mrowka said:

3.175mm and 5mm are standard motor shaft sizes. Often 5mm pinions are sold with an adapter so they can be used on a 3.175mm shaft.

Thanks for that :D

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