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FC5687

DB01 RRR vs DB02

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Any thoughts between both vehicles?

Prod and Cons of both.

I recently seen a completed DB01RRR and it is very nice. At least better than any vintage Kyosho Lazer belt drive.

 

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DB01 had an eight year run of continual improvement up to the DB01rrr. 

DB02 was a failure. Out of the box it didn't work and the mistakes made in the design couldn't be rectified so they killed it off. 

DB01 can be used as intended and DB02 is only interesting to the curious and collectors. 

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32 minutes ago, Howards said:

DB01 had an eight year run of continual improvement up to the DB01rrr. 

DB02 was a failure. Out of the box it didn't work and the mistakes made in the design couldn't be rectified so they killed it off. 

DB01 can be used as intended and DB02 is only interesting to the curious and collectors. 

What's wrong with DB02? It looks very seriously build. Is that even worst than TRF502X?

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1 hour ago, FC5687 said:

What's wrong with DB02?

From reading around there were design flaws in the central gearbox that required accurate shimming out - without which it would eat itself. The drive propeller joints would regularly melt from friction with the dog bones. If that didn’t happen the gears would destroy themselves. 
 

fully hopped up it could be an interesting buggy but people using them would find it hard to get them round a lap out of the box.

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26 minutes ago, Howards said:

From reading around there were design flaws in the central gearbox that required accurate shimming out - without which it would eat itself. The drive propeller joints would regularly melt from friction with the dog bones. If that didn’t happen the gears would destroy themselves. 
 

fully hopped up it could be an interesting buggy but people using them would find it hard to get them round a lap out of the box.

What made the fully hop up DB02 so different than the stock one? As far as I can tell the gears and all drive shafts still the same

 

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Universal propeller shafts and metal drive cups meant it didn't eat itself. Aluminium suspension mounts make it more durable. Machined gearbox meant better tolerances and less chance of it eating the centre gears.

The DB02 out of the box is equivalent in spec to a DB01 out of the box; very plastic albeit glass reinforced. To get it to something like DB01RRR spec you'd be well into TRF money by the time it's done. 

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23 minutes ago, Howards said:

Universal propeller shafts and metal drive cups meant it didn't eat itself. Aluminium suspension mounts make it more durable. Machined gearbox meant better tolerances and less chance of it eating the centre gears.

The DB02 out of the box is equivalent in spec to a DB01 out of the box; very plastic albeit glass reinforced. To get it to something like DB01RRR spec you'd be well into TRF money by the time it's done. 

How the fully hop up DB02 compare with followings?

Top Force Evolution 

TRF 502X

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TF evo is from a very different era where battery tech was quaint by today's standards. It's light and fragile compared to contemporary buggies. A fully hopped up DB02 would be more resilient on contemporary circuits and capable of handling hot brushless motors. But not as well as almost everything else including the DB02RRR.

DB02 is the 'consumerised' version of the 502x but with an inexplicable centre gearbox layout compared to the simpler version in the 502. If I wanted a shaft drive Tamiya racing buggy that's pretty much all there is. Designed for saddle packs though and who is using them these days? 

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2 hours ago, Howards said:

TF evo is from a very different era where battery tech was quaint by today's standards. It's light and fragile compared to contemporary buggies. A fully hopped up DB02 would be more resilient on contemporary circuits and capable of handling hot brushless motors. But not as well as almost everything else including the DB02RRR.

DB02 is the 'consumerised' version of the 502x but with an inexplicable centre gearbox layout compared to the simpler version in the 502. If I wanted a shaft drive Tamiya racing buggy that's pretty much all there is. Designed for saddle packs though and who is using them these days? 

Whether fully hop up DB02 cure the design flaws in the central gearbox?

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BTW, the GPM racing has offered some alloy parts for Top Force which is strengthening both gearboxes and suspension mounting.

Also, DSRC Classic has very tough arms for top force. The only complaint for top force is no clutch.

 

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spacer.png
 

here is my DB02, they are a deep hole to dig into, not least because new stock of the kits has dried up now. The only serious weakness was the rear centre dogbone arrangement because it runs on a odd angle, replacing it with the universal centre drive shafts solves that. The main centre gearbox is fine if you use some common sense and shim it right. But it’s not perfect enough out if the box to work to the manual build, you need to use a bit of common sense/mechanical sense and then there isn’t a problem. 
 

for a Tamiya buggy collector I think it’s very important kit to own, but if your buying one planning to properly race it, then your better off going to the track and see what buggy the best guys at that track are running right now and get one of those. It’s more likely to suit the modern racetrack and your likely to be able to buy parts and keep it going. 
 

I love the way the DB buggy’s drive, they are both great, but they are getting old and the parts are drying up. For a sensible and skilled driver they make a great light basher for just enjoying the overall handling. But 30ft jumps and backflips that will probably end with a $150 freight bill for a $10 part. 
 

if you must run one, the DB01 is slightly better supported right now. 

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I guess it would be a good idea to build the db01 with Tamiya hop up parts such as carbonized arms and gearbox, also metal parts for centre diff gearbox, suspension mounting universal shaf, dampers made for TRF buggies etc

However I don't see any hop up for gears and differential.

 

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A small suggestion from my limited experience with Tamiya  RC, i think its better to find the essential hop up parts before u buy the kit. Finding tamiya parts is kinda hard these days , many times u cant get it from local seller and have to buy it from overseas (there goes my money for shipping cost) >.<.

Ive bought a DB02 a month ago, but havent  build it yet, i cant find its slipper clutch locally, found it with ebay from a china seller, but ill wait till shipping works normally. They said the shipping is 1-2 month coz of COVID XD.

@Juls1, is it ok if i dont use slipper clutch?, planning to use 10,5 hobbywing brushless motor.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Morinstal said:

ok if i dont use slipper clutch?, planning to use 10,5 hobbywing brushless motor.

You'd have to do a very good job of building the ball diffs. Then profile the acceleration on your controller to limit full punch until the wheels are rolling. 

Primary risk is the diffs slipping generating heat that then melts the assembly. 

I ran my DN01 with a fairly hot motor without a slipper for a bit and nobody died. But then again, it was on low grip surfaces.

But all D series buggies have issues with diff wear and are prone to melting various bits of the transmission without slipper clutches.

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5 hours ago, Morinstal said:

A small suggestion from my limited experience with Tamiya  RC, i think its better to find the essential hop up parts before u buy the kit. Finding tamiya parts is kinda hard these days , many times u cant get it from local seller and have to buy it from overseas (there goes my money for shipping cost) >.<.

Ive bought a DB02 a month ago, but havent  build it yet, i cant find its slipper clutch locally, found it with ebay from a china seller, but ill wait till shipping works normally. They said the shipping is 1-2 month coz of COVID XD.

@Juls1, is it ok if i dont use slipper clutch?, planning to use 10,5 hobbywing brushless motor.

 

 

Unlike the DB01, the DB02 runs TRF502 diffs, not the all plastic things in the DB01. If your not too silly with full power jump landings things should be ok, but I will say that the parts are drying up, it’d be prudent to wait till you have a functioning slipper clutch anyway.  I thought there seemed to be plenty of slipper clutches around when I looked recently. 

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4 hours ago, Juls1 said:

The Unlike the DB01, the DB02 runs TRF502 diffs, not the all plastic things in the DB01

The outdrives are metal but the actual assembly is plastic, no? so get it hot enough and you won't melt the outdrives but you will melt the retainer inside the cog. The issue with the DB01 isn't so much the plastic outdrive, it's people not building the diffs right then running hot motors through them without the double or single slipper and it melts everything. 

On the 502 owners thread there are people who replace them with the TB04 gear diff.

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@Howards what would u describe as building the diffs incorrectly? Just curious. Perhaps u have an insight that i could learn something from.

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Thank you for the inputs, ill wait till i get that slipperclutch, its better safe than sorry .

 

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10 hours ago, Morinstal said:

A small suggestion from my limited experience with Tamiya  RC, i think its better to find the essential hop up parts before u buy the kit. Finding tamiya parts is kinda hard these days , many times u cant get it from local seller and have to buy it from overseas (there goes my money for shipping cost) >.<.

Ive bought a DB02 a month ago, but havent  build it yet, i cant find its slipper clutch locally, found it with ebay from a china seller, but ill wait till shipping works normally. They said the shipping is 1-2 month coz of COVID XD.

@Juls1, is it ok if i dont use slipper clutch?, planning to use 10,5 hobbywing brushless motor.

 

 

only issue with that is the topic is about more or less rare kits. While i agree if its about a M05/6/7/8 or a readily avail kit, a rrr/rr/r, dbo2, 201 ect is a kit first build. If u spend 500 on hop ups then cant get the kit u have a problem. 

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36 minutes ago, Finnsllc said:

only issue with that is the topic is about more or less rare kits. While i agree if its about a M05/6/7/8 or a readily avail kit, a rrr/rr/r, dbo2, 201 ect is a kit first build. If u spend 500 on hop ups then cant get the kit u have a problem. 

I pretty sure hop up parts for db02 covered over 90% what the kit required. The remaining is no big deal mainly both body and non hop up parts

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On 10/4/2020 at 3:16 PM, Juls1 said:

spacer.png
 

here is my DB02, they are a deep hole to dig into, not least because new stock of the kits has dried up now. The only serious weakness was the rear centre dogbone arrangement because it runs on a odd angle, replacing it with the universal centre drive shafts solves that. The main centre gearbox is fine if you use some common sense and shim it right. But it’s not perfect enough out if the box to work to the manual build, you need to use a bit of common sense/mechanical sense and then there isn’t a problem. 
 

for a Tamiya buggy collector I think it’s very important kit to own, but if your buying one planning to properly race it, then your better off going to the track and see what buggy the best guys at that track are running right now and get one of those. It’s more likely to suit the modern racetrack and your likely to be able to buy parts and keep it going. 
 

I love the way the DB buggy’s drive, they are both great, but they are getting old and the parts are drying up. For a sensible and skilled driver they make a great light basher for just enjoying the overall handling. But 30ft jumps and backflips that will probably end with a $150 freight bill for a $10 part. 
 

if you must run one, the DB01 is slightly better supported right now. 

Which parts did gpm do for the top force?

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29 minutes ago, slimleeroy said:

Which parts did gpm do for the top force?

They all made by GPM 

s-l400.jpg

s-l400 (3).jpg

s-l400 (2).jpg

s-l400 (1).jpg

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Also jazrider offers parts to strengthen the gearboxes of Top Force, and they are available on eBay.

 

 

s-l400 (5).jpg

s-l400 (4).jpg

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7 hours ago, Morinstal said:

Thank you for the inputs, ill wait till i get that slipperclutch, its better safe than sorry .

 

check ebay there are a few db02  54336 slipper clutches from usa, hk, and uk. 

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