I still haven't found what I'm looking for...

[foz75]

... but maybe someone can help?  Was all set to get a CC-01, even have the bearing kit already because that arrived before I heard from the shop that the kit wasn´t in stock. I looked at other versions of the same chassis, but they're all more expensive, and I don't like the body shell on any of them. So I got to thinking...  what with the mods "needed" by the CC-01, I might be better off with something else, that will possibly work better and cost just the same. I was only thinking of the CC-01 because it's Tamiya, they're all I've ever known, and they're cheap for what they are. But then some reading, youtubing, etc. and I don't think the CC-01 is what I really want.  I like the look of things like the MST CMX, Gmade GS-02, etc.  so in no particular order, here's a list of things I'm looking for, but haven't found yet all in a single package.  if anyone can recommend something, please do!

- must be a kit (why buy one RTR when you can build it yourself, which is 90% of the fun?)

- 1/10 scale, and realistic looking (but doesn't need to be an accurate scale model)

- I'm thinking crawler, but needs to run "fast", as I really want a general all purpose 4wd something that will take on pretty much everything, not just a dedicated crawler

- reasonably economical

- must be able to take a decent bashing without breaking (not that I plan on destroying it, but I don't want to be looking for spares every other week)

- suitable for modding and/or upgrading as desired

I might add more things as and when I think of them, suggestions for what to look for and what to avoid are all welcome.

thanks!

[MICHAELs TopForce17]

how about about cc02 or gmade gs02 builder kit. 

[KEV THE REV]

U2 - me too :)

[Finnsllc]

gmade may be a feasible option, crawler and fast are contradictory terms.  

[davidwj95]

I've got an MST CFX.  It's a nice build and excellent quality, the plastics feel much better than a standard tamiya.  It crawls very well and looks really scale as it drives but it isn't fast at all.  In fact I think its slower than my CR01. 

[DeadMeat666]

Not to sound like a die-hard Tamiya fan, but the CC02 seems to tick all the boxes. As for the body, the CC02 is compatible with all CC01 bodies out of the box, so you already have a pretty wide selection if you don't want a Merc G-class. 

[Juggular]

4 hours ago, foz75 said:

needs to run "fast", as I really want a general all purpose 4wd something that will take on pretty much everything, not just a dedicated crawler

That's a tall order, but one that CC01 or CC02 could meet.  

The problem with dedicated crawlers are lack of differentials.  Any kind of turning requires that outside wheels rotate more than the other wheel.  Differentials allow that.  But it's better if two wheels turn at the same time if you are crawling; differential unloading would prevent good crawling.  So most crawlers just don't have diffs.  Which is fine if you are on a trail, but it's a big problem on tarmac, especially if you are on any speed.  

So, your list kinda results in a trail trucks like CC01 or CC02.  CC01's front independent suspension is better for on-road than rigid axle also.  If that was my list of requirements, I would get the cheapest CC01 I could find for about 200 USD, and mount the shell I want for $45.  It will be almost as expensive MST CMX, but you get the diffs.  Install something like 13.5t motor or Sport Tuned.  It will go twice as fast as a 45t crawler motor.  It's got more torque too, just less control.  Same trigger pull will cause twice as much RPM change.  Not really good for crawling, but there is no other way, unless you have a 2-speed transmission.  

You can use some differential putty.  It will be almost like locked diff, but it will still prevent your truck from rolling over.  You get to crawl some, trail some and dash around a parking lot too.  There are plenty of upgrades for it.  I only have stickier tires and the suspension travel kit.  If you want, you can lock the rear diff and put the putty on the front only.  

CMX, CFX, and Gmade are crawlers. Within that class, there is 1/10th scale Traxxas TR4 Sport kit for about $300 USD.  Add $25 for one front differential, you've got a crawler/trail truck.  But of course, CC01 is cheaper and faster.  

 

 

[Re-Bugged]

Not quite to your criteria, but a fun take and definitely thinking out side the box with a CC01 I came across only yesterday...

 

[Mad Ax]

It's hard to know exactly what you want, and therefore hard to recommend something.  As has been said, 'fast' and 'crawler' are at odds with each other.  Sure, you can make an SCX10 go fast if you put a hot brushless system in it, but it won't take corners like an E-Maxx and you won't have the control to go climbing with it*.  IMO it'll be a one-trick-pony that gets stale quickly.  Part of the joy in 'crawling' is taking a slow, technical approach to difficult climbs, thinking about your lines and angles of attack, making best use of friends with winches and tow lines and coming out the other side having not got stuck or rolled over.

*Side-note: I run my crawlers with 55T motors on 3S, but I keep a conservative gear ratio.  That way I can handle low-speed high-torque requirements with a 2/3 of the throttle I would use on 2S, but I get a little bit more speed when travelling between obstacles.  Proper crawlers really are slow, and with crawler gearing on 2S you have to slow your walking pace right down or just pick up the rig between stages.  Modern trucks (TRX-4, SCX10-III) get around this with 2 speed gearboxes, but that adds to your purchase cost.

So maybe you're not really after a crawler at all, but more of a trail rig.  The CC01 is the original and best at the job, but the CC02 is the new kid on the block and (although I haven't driven one yet) quite possibly a brilliant alternative.  You can gear it for a respectable speed and if you go 3S and keep a high-ish turn count on the motor (35T at a guess) you could still have torque low down and speed high up.  And as has been said, get whatever body you prefer and you've got all the scale looks you want.  Standard tyres are as bad as they always were but they're OK for a bit of trailing.  If you want to play in thicker mud or climb some rocks then you'll want better tyres.

The MST CMX / CFX is probably the closest competitor to the CC02 - similar size and designed to fit Tamiya's big range of nice bodies, but are more geared for crawling than trailing.  AFAIK the CMX or CFX don't have differentials, which is fine for mudding or rock crawling but makes the car less stable for trailing and speed runs, so if you still feel the need for speed, the CC02 is probably more appropriate.

Any of the other scaler / crawler chassis (GS-02, SCX10-III, TRX-4 etc) are stepping away from trailing and heading deep into crawling territory.

There are of course rock buggies / rock bouncers / rock racers, which have a fair turn of speed.  I'm pretty sure Axial and Kyosho have rigs in this category.  They are not 'scale' in the same way a Defender 90 is scale, but they are in keeping with their full-size counterparts.  Probably not what you were after but might be worth a look.

[wolfdogstinkus]

Looked at the wild dagger?. It's a bit outside your original requirements, but can be made scale with narrow track 

Can be upgraded to dual servos, dual motors,  scale truck body shell. 

Possibilities are endless, even 6wd. Lol. ok it's not a crawler, but give it juice and it will go anywhere. 

Mild to wild. Lol

Also independent suspension, so more stable if you do want faster. 

Many parts are interchangeable, so no shortage of parts. 

But then you'll still need a CC01,.....

That's how this hobby works. Lol

And you'll need a clodbuster and a lunchbox as well, you might as well just buy them all now, you'll save in the future. Lol

[foz75]

Thanks, this is quite helpful!  Mad Ax, I think from what you're saying what I want is a trail rig/car/truck/chassis. I definitely want something more all round capable than a pure crawler, I think I'm still realising all the different types of RC that are available now - way back when the only options were either road or off road, and 2 or 4wd, so it was easy!

What I'm aiming for is something 4wd with clearance, able to go over more or less anything (within reason) quite quickly (not super fast, but definitely a lot faster than pure crawling speed), and that looks more or less realistic. Something more all-round than just a 4wd buggy, but not as absurd looking as your really modern bonkers "stadium truck" type thing with huge wheels...

I initially thought CC-01, then maybe CC-02, then went back to CC-01, then started reading about all the more or less necessary mods (steering, wheels/tyres, etc), and the drawbacks (somewhat limited clearance, comparatively short travel suspension, etc), and figured that for the same cost as a CC-01 plus necessary mods or little more I could get something else that would possibly work better

So maybe I'm back to square (CC-0)1 again

[MadInventor]

I've been looking on and off at one of these:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/ftx-kanyon-4x4-rtr-1-10-xl-trail-crawler/rc-car-products/433022

They certainly tick the 'looks scale' box, and are cheaper than the CC-01 options at the same store. The main issue is that they don't come with differentials, but having looked at the manuals it looks like they have used a diff housing and then put a locking part inside it, which makes me think it might be possible to fit diffs from another FTX buggy in it. I have however not rustled up enough enthusiasm to chase down the details on it, as I'm having far too much fun modifying my Juggernaut 2 runner at the moment, and am trying to enjoy the cars I've got rather than buying more to build.

 

Edit, just noticed this is the RTR option, I think kit versions are also available

 

 

[bikerclubby]

• Agree with the rest of the replies. A crawler may not be ideal for you. My recently finished GS02 has a 55t motor on nimh and is not particularly quick. Suits me as it’s perfect for rocky beach driving when walking with my young son. Would be very boring on flat ground. There is a 2 speed option for it, and the new GS02F kits come 2 speed as standard. 

[Nicadraus]

I have both the CC-01 and MST CFX. Both are heavily modified but they just have different characteristics. As mentioned, the CFX is crawler based that is also fun for trailing. But can never run "fast" like the CC-01 can. But it's an amazing crawler for it's compact size. Meanwhile, the CC-01 has been set up to light crawl and trail. I installed a 55t motor (the CFX uses the same) and does the job done but it's still a lot faster than the CFX because of its gearing. I've locked the front diff but as a street basher, locked diff isn't really good especially when making turns.

Before I acquired the CFX, I also looked into the CC-02. But the CFX is just built better, simpler build but very rigid parts. Cheaper and upgrades won't cost you an arm and a leg like Tamiya does. I've spent more than $240 in upgrading the CC-01 according to the specs I wanted. Inclusive of the electronics. I've checked upgrades for the CC-02 and it will cost a lot more to go fully modified.

[taffer]

28 minutes ago, Nicadraus said:

I've checked upgrades for the CC-02 and it will cost a lot more to go fully modified.

The cc-02 runs fine out of the box!

It's a crawler ESC that makes the difference with drag brake!

[Nicadraus]

1 hour ago, taffer said:

The cc-02 runs fine out of the box!

It's a crawler ESC that makes the difference with drag brake!

I didn't say it won't run fine out of the box. A lot of other important parts makes a difference too. They are called "upgrades". The reason why there is this thing called "modification". I'm a builder and love to tinker. Stock kits just don't satisfy me and my needs.

[taffer]

Theres no tamiya 'upgrades' that I know of for the cc-02 that makes a difference, ok lets say the bearings, pinion (they are both a given on any tamiya) "tyres".....Ill give you that one (I did that on mine) but other tamiya hop-ups? mmmm so far with just 20+ hours through a stock cc-02 plus the three mentioned above it has been rock solid.....

My point being I suppose is I am just countering your viewpoint that comes across as (many others do the same) the kit isn't very good unless you spend x,y,z....... which in the majority of cases isn't true.

I too, like to hop-up where a good price allows, it is fun to do, no doubt.

It's good to be mindful, especially when newcomers read information about certain kits that more money doesn't necessarily have to be spent on the initial build to make a car/buggy any good.

For example, cc-01 steering, I can understand that the steering can be an issue, but I feel its still not essential to upgrade it from the get go....to balance that statement out I would also say that on everyone of the cc-01's I have owned in the last 15 years, none have had over 50 hours running time (that in itself is a long time), all mine have been around 20-30 hours approx with just a steel pinion and ball bearings, no issues whatsoever.

Also, if your not on a budget and you love to upgrade....go for it, theres plenty of items out there!

as always, if you have these upgraded tamiyas in your showroom, please post a link, im sure a few of us would like to have a look! :-)

[Nicadraus]

9 hours ago, taffer said:

Theres no tamiya 'upgrades' that I know of for the cc-02 that makes a difference, ok lets say the bearings, pinion (they are both a given on any tamiya) "tyres".....Ill give you that one (I did that on mine) but other tamiya hop-ups? mmmm so far with just 20+ hours through a stock cc-02 plus the three mentioned above it has been rock solid.....

My point being I suppose is I am just countering your viewpoint that comes across as (many others do the same) the kit isn't very good unless you spend x,y,z....... which in the majority of cases isn't true.

I too, like to hop-up where a good price allows, it is fun to do, no doubt.

It's good to be mindful, especially when newcomers read information about certain kits that more money doesn't necessarily have to be spent on the initial build to make a car/buggy any good.

For example, cc-01 steering, I can understand that the steering can be an issue, but I feel its still not essential to upgrade it from the get go....to balance that statement out I would also say that on everyone of the cc-01's I have owned in the last 15 years, none have had over 50 hours running time (that in itself is a long time), all mine have been around 20-30 hours approx with just a steel pinion and ball bearings, no issues whatsoever.

Also, if your not on a budget and you love to upgrade....go for it, theres plenty of items out there!

as always, if you have these upgraded tamiyas in your showroom, please post a link, im sure a few of us would like to have a look! :-)

If you don't find the CC-01's steering faulty and you're pretty satisfied with that, then good for you. But to people (like me) who are particular in precision and want proper performance, CC-01's stock steering is garbage. Plus the short suspension arms in front that is limited to rebound travel when using for crawling. The reason why Tamiya improved this in the CC-02. 

I get your point that out of the box, these kits will run and count as many hours you want but they won't perform better than an upgraded one. And why limit yourself to Tamiya parts only??? There are options. Lots of options other than sticking to Tamiya parts only. It is why aftermarket companies (Yeah Racing, Hot Racing, 3Racing, Xtraspeed, Exotek, GRC, etc) make optional upgrades is because, first, stock parts aren't enough to withstand abuse. This is where aluminum, steel,  carbon fiber (CF), carbon reinforced plastic (CRP), and fiber reinforced plastic (FRP) comes in. These materials play a lot of important factors in rigidity, stiffness, sturdiness and lessen or eliminate slops. Second, weight. Lighter is an important factor to buggies, on-road cars, rally cars, etc. Third, design. Everybody loves good looks. Unless you have a boring sight.

So many reasons why upgrades are called "upgrades". They have important purposes and not just something for "bling" and throw your money out the window. My CC-01 is 24 years old and is one of the first batches (definitely longer than your 15 years). A lot of parts have broken and failed due to design. So I improved the entire kit by upgrading essential parts.  Suspension arms links for example in the stock kit are made of flexing plastic. Changing them to rigid aluminum makes an obvious difference especially in stiffness. The steering as mentioned, because stock one can't run straight. The lower suspension arm and lower suspension arm mount which I replaced with aluminum that I am now confident it won't break or crack like the plastic did. The aluminum c-hubs and knuckles, which replaces the plastic that moves like crazy because of the major slops. I even re-designed the front and rear shock towers to allow more suspension travel. I can list down more but it's pointless if you refuse to understand that. 

The CC-02 uses plastic suspension arm links and drive shafts. They will break if you use them for crawling. The plastic parts flexes and can only take up to a certain abuse. Let's see how "rock solid" it can go. Now if you want to continue this discussion, let's create a thread for "why upgrades are important". But most people know that already and you should too.

[Juggular]

lol... some times, (actually, quite often) I realize that my standard is quite low.  Hat's off to precision builders!  

My CC-01 has stock steering setup.  The slop on edge of the tires is like 5mm side-to-side.  Certainly, it could improve.  But at the same time, it's only driven in my backyard. No rocks, just some slopes.  For me, precision steering wouldn't make a lot of difference. Especially if it's going to cost me extra. 

My own preference is "quantity over quality."  It could look quite silly for a discerning driver.  I even patched one eye of my Grasshopper. 

(lol... I'm sorry that I am lowering the standard by this much... but it's a battle-scar of Odin!)  

It's funny, if I think of the old shell as "dirty, old and broken," I would want to build a new one and keep it on a shelf.  If I think of it as "old Odin" I don't want to replace the shell even though I have a vintage set. (even the instruction sheet yellowed over decades...) 

So, if I have $90 extra to spend on precision steering upgrades for 2-3 chassis, my personal choice would be to buy one more used chassis I haven't tried.  That's just me, though.  

Everybody is different.  I'm not very particular about tools either.  But I'm building scale kits now, so I decided to spend $60 for a pair of cutters.  They cost twice as much as Tamiya ones and the high-carbon steel is as brittle as thin ice. (they can NEVER be used for RC parts--they are too big)  But the blade is razor sharp for small parts.  Some armor kits have like 500 parts. If one tool saves me 2 hours per kit, I figure it's worth the money.  

(Tamiya 1/48 scale Japanese Type 10 tank is actually quite small)  

While I chose to go expensive on a pair of nippers that could shave 0.1mm closer, I chose to live with 5mm slop on CC01.  That's strange. I could have fixed CC01's slop at half the price!  In the end, we all have limited amount of disposable income.  Some choose to be precise, some choose to go sloppy.  (I'm at the irksome level of tinkering, as shown in my Blackfoot ghetto mod...but ironically, some slop actually helps prevent breakage in this case)

I'm not saying people should become a slob like me... no, no.  If you can, please choose Nicadraus' way of being precise.  It's better for the chassis, and for the next driver too if you choose to sell it.  

I've seen some terrible injustice done to used RC cars; like shoving a wide bore piston into a smaller bore, completely jamming it.  lol...  What good is a coated rod if you use the wrong piston!?  I arrogantly thought, "you don't need a coated rod, you need some skills!" 

Then again, it occurred to me that it could have been done by a lonely 10 year old boy who built it without help of an experienced-builder dad.  I felt bad. 

Most of us are old enough to have kids. While we are eager to lend a hand, some kids don't have that luxury.  He might not have even heard about Tamiya Club when he built it.  I'm glad to have many experienced builders willing to help.  Even though I'm not a kid, if I wanted a steering upgrade kit all I have to do is ask.  I'll probably get half a dozen answers from members with decades of more experiences on certain chassis. All kind enough to take time to recommend something!  I think we are a fortunate bunch in that regard.  

Also, Tamiya Club's motto is "when in doubt, buy both." (eventually)  Get what you like and deal with breakages and upgrades as they come along. Nothing is invincible and fixing/upgrading is all part of RCing.  

 

[Mad Ax]

On 10/6/2020 at 6:45 PM, foz75 said:

What I'm aiming for is something 4wd with clearance, able to go over more or less anything (within reason) quite quickly (not super fast, but definitely a lot faster than pure crawling speed), and that looks more or less realistic. Something more all-round than just a 4wd buggy, but not as absurd looking as your really modern bonkers "stadium truck" type thing with huge wheels...

Getting back to the original thread for a moment  - I'm not sure if the only one thinking this is quite a bit ask?  It doesn't sound like it should be, but here we bump up against the "what the marketing material tell you it will do" and "what it will really do" issue.  Let's think about the requirements:

4wd with clearance - how much clearance?  Grass and trails, almost anything that has full-size off road tyres should do this.

Able to go over more or less anything (within reason) - what do you think is reasonable?  There are two ways to get over rocks: low-speed with control (i.e. a crawler), or high speed with power.  Something in the middle (like, say, a CC01) isn't really capable of either.

Quite quickly - again I think this is relative, so I'll go with "stock CC01 on silvercan speed" as a ballpark

Looks more or less realistic - that should be achievable

More all-round than just a 4wd buggy - again, that sounds OK

not as absurd as a really modern bonkers stadium truck with huge wheels - OK

 

And let's think about some options...

CC01: has 'some' clearance, but not loads.  Works well enough on clear trails and short grass, gets hung up on roots and leaves.  Won't go over rocks or up steep inclines without some modifications - biggest single improvement is tyres if you want to run on mud.  I wouldn't recommend fitting rock tyres unless you plan on making it a rock crawler; if so, a dedicated crawler would be better and is going away from the spec.  Will tip over a lot if you drive it fast.  Looks very realistic.  No upgrades are 'essential' but a steering kit is advisable, and shimming the rear axle (plenty of how-tos online) will extend its useful life.  Loads of scope for hop-ups and custom mods later if that's what you want to do.

Clod Buster: oddball choice, not what you asked for at all.  Big size means it has plenty of clearance and will go over many things.  Go slow and it will crawl over rocks, go fast and it will bounce over them.  I'd consider a general purpose chassis.  Starts to get pricey.  Has big wheels.  Looks like a monster truck, not a real road truck.

WT01-N Amarok.  I'm starting to wonder if this might be the right direction.  It's 2WD at standard but you only need to buy a second gearbox and drivetrain parts and it's instantly 4wd.  Fast as a stock CC01 on silvercans.  Very robust design.  Narrow track on the Amarok means it looks more like a lifted truck than a stadium truck.  You could fit more realistic-looking wheels (it's made for 2.2s but in theory you could fit 1.9s with big tyres and maybe lower the body a little for a more realistic look?)  Put some putty in the diffs and it will scrabble over obstacles.  (I used to have loads of fun getting my 2wd WT01 (wide version) with its unlocked diff to the top of some very steep muddy banks, back in the good old days).  There's no need to stick with an Amarok body - JConcepts or Proline do other options.  You might have to get creative with arch cutting to get the right wheelbase.  Independent suspension gives you better handling for blasting around the garden.

 

[Badcrumble]

How about something left-field and not often seen on this forum?

The Redcar Wendigo. It can go fast or slow, has scale looks and can do a passable imitation of a crawler.

https://www.msuk-forum.co.uk/forums/topic/244058-redcat-wendigo/

This thread shows a detailed build, hop-ups and some running vids.

Parts support is pretty much US-only but it seems pretty rugged if you upgrade the gears. I can’t remember if it fits the original brief in terms of cost.