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Golden

Monster Beetle - At last! Upgrades...?

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Hi All - I’ve always wanted one these - since they first came out in the 80s, and have just bought a re-re which I’ll commence work on this evening....
 

I’ve done a bit of research re upgrades - mostly to ensure reliability and a touch more performance - although it’ll just be a back-garden-basher. 
 

With that in mind, I think I’ll invest in MIP’s diff kit, but is there anything else worth doing to keep the thing in one piece? I’d also like a slight increase in power (admittedly I haven’t built it yet - but have seen a few in action recently...) - but don’t fully understand the difference between Torque tuned vs Sport tuned? The former accelerates faster, but the sports has a higher top speed? 
 

I’m into the old-school Tamiya - and know that brushless set-ups (and indeed newer designs of car plus Lipo batteries) will far out-perform - but I like the nostalgia/character of the older cars (And don’t fancy storing Lipos) so mega speed is not quite what I’m after - but would appreciate some guidance on which motor to go for and any other components vital to keep the model in one piece!

I was also going to paint the car - but reckon it’ll be upside down for at least half of it’s life until I get up to speed, and think it’ll just get ruined!


Grateful for some advice on the above. 

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You're right about the motors, sport tuned has more RPM and less torque, torque tuned has more torque but lower top end. 

LiPos aren't just about top speed, they are much lighter than Nimh (Which means less weight crashing down on the shell when you roll it, and also much longer run times, so don't discount them completely.

Your quest for more speed is inversely proportional to the desire to keep the model in one piece, for longevity of the model a RS380 will keep it in one piece for a long time, but you will need to find a subaru brat motor adapter plate !

Tamiya hard bodyshells are expensive to replace (and especially now with Covid, stocks of many things are very hard to come by), so I'd suggest getting a cheap polycarbonate to use to run it with until you get used to driving it. 

Other than than, a full set of roller bearings to replace the plastic ones, and a RW racing steel pinion to replace the kit aluminium one, which will wear very quickly.

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Welcome to the club! :)

I'm no expert, but I'll help get the ball rolling ;)

Diff kit is a good shout, I'd probably advise getting a diff brace too - I know @Problemchild has 3D printed one, I'm sure there are a lot more out there too. Peeps will jump in and help here.

There's a steering conversion by Team CRP which removes bump steer (you can find that on ebay by searching for Team CRP) which I've not tried on the Monster Beetle chassis, but have on the Lunchbox chassis, and it's a big improvement for not a lot of cash.

On the subject of motors, the Torque Tuned is a 25 turn motor and based on the specs mean it should be about 15% better than the stock (27T) silvercan kit motor. The Sport Tuned is a 27T motor, but with advanced timing to bring the performance (in one direction anyway) to that of a 23T motor, which means it's about 30% better than the kit silvercan motor. It's more expensive than the Torque Tuned, but I think it's much more likely to give you what you want in terms of a noticeable upgrade in power.

I wouldn't get put off about lipo's because of storing them. You'll get a lot more performance and running time out of them compared to a NiMh. But if you do decide to stick with NiMh go for something over 3000mAh.

There was a similar question posted a little while back about a Blackfoot - same chassis but minus bearings and oil filled shocks - so ignore those 2 upgrades, but the rest may be of help: *edit* sorry - you do still want to upgrade the bearings as it uses plastic bearings on the wheel axles.

 

Edited by jonboy1

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Thanks ever so much for the above replies. Very helpful. I’ve got some bearings from RC Bearings, and bought 2x 3300 Overlander Ni-MH battery packs. 
 

I think I’ll avoid painting this shell until I’ve seen how it goes outside - and good point re availability of things if we have another lock-down... Only just got the hang of the lunch box mini I picked up (for indoor use only....) - took a while fettling toe angles to get it to behave/me get to grips with it!

Thanks again. 
 

Have to dig out my original Terra Scorcher and see if I can breath life back into that too - although might need a full rebuild, as I’ve not touched it in over 30 years!

 

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Yeah, @Mad Ax made a good point about the body - I've painted more of those Beetle shells than I care to remember and they take a lot of work to make look nice, so maybe get a polycarb (lexan) shell for running and keep the hard plastic shell for the shelf. Kamtec make some very affordable replicas in either polycarb or ABS:

https://www.kamtec.co.uk/epages/BT4645.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT4645/Products/K0034[1]

https://www.kamtec.co.uk/epages/BT4645.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT4645/Products/K0043

https://www.kamtec.co.uk/epages/BT4645.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT4645/Products/K0044

Terra Scorchers are great fun - and as they've recently been re-released spares are much more available than they used to be, so now's the time to get restoring it! @ThunderDragonCy is the expert on all things Thunder chassis :) 

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Thanks again - yes - stumbled across Kamtec just now, so will take a proper look - and having outdoor clothes (polycarbonate/Lexan shell) and indoor clothes sounds like a good idea. 
 

Re the TerraScorcher, from memory my next door neighbour (who was probably my age now at the time) took the TerraScorcher for a spin on pretty much the first day I completed building it, and promptly smacked it into a kerb and broke something on the front bumper. He did fix it - so it’s got an aluminium strip plus epoxy holding the front end together (he did quite a good, neat job I think) so I’ll have to buy some spares now that the re-re’s come out. He was super cool though, and had a full-livery Marlboro R1 (or equivalent at the time - he was a mechanic I think). It’s at my folks’ place so might drive up to retrieve it at some point - pretty sure the tyres are scrubbed and it definitely didn’t have metal bearings. Quite excited about restoring it actually!
 

I’ve watched LOADS of the Tamiya Legends videos (seems a really nice chap - and if you close your eyes, he sounds a bit like Keith Lemon....) - and he tears it up with the re-re Terra Scorcher - and I remember just how fun it was - although the batteries would only do about 10 minutes if that - and there was a seriously high risk of third degree burns on the resistor!

Might upgrade that to an ESC - but am still a bit against the Lipos - as I can’t guarantee I’ll use the cars regularly enough to be careful re checking them regularly etc.  
 

Thanks again for all the feedback. 

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Have a look at the monster beetle/frog gear box fix thread on general discussions forum (currently on page 5).  I've bought one of these ready for my original monster beetle restoration.  It's a lot cheaper than a MIP diff so worth a try if you only plan to run a sport tuned.  

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1 hour ago, Golden said:

Thanks again - yes - stumbled across Kamtec just now, so will take a proper look - and having outdoor clothes (polycarbonate/Lexan shell) and indoor clothes sounds like a good idea. 
 

Re the TerraScorcher, from memory my next door neighbour (who was probably my age now at the time) took the TerraScorcher for a spin on pretty much the first day I completed building it, and promptly smacked it into a kerb and broke something on the front bumper. He did fix it - so it’s got an aluminium strip plus epoxy holding the front end together (he did quite a good, neat job I think) so I’ll have to buy some spares now that the re-re’s come out. He was super cool though, and had a full-livery Marlboro R1 (or equivalent at the time - he was a mechanic I think). It’s at my folks’ place so might drive up to retrieve it at some point - pretty sure the tyres are scrubbed and it definitely didn’t have metal bearings. Quite excited about restoring it actually!
 

I’ve watched LOADS of the Tamiya Legends videos (seems a really nice chap - and if you close your eyes, he sounds a bit like Keith Lemon....) - and he tears it up with the re-re Terra Scorcher - and I remember just how fun it was - although the batteries would only do about 10 minutes if that - and there was a seriously high risk of third degree burns on the resistor!

Might upgrade that to an ESC - but am still a bit against the Lipos - as I can’t guarantee I’ll use the cars regularly enough to be careful re checking them regularly etc.  
 

Thanks again for all the feedback. 

Get an ESC (I'd recommend a Hobbywing 1060 for the brushed kit motor), and a modern NiMH battery, and you'll still get TONNES of run time compared to back in the day. Get a NiMH battery with over 3000mAh rating and it will last at least half an hour. Modelsport have got quite a few. There's even an Overlander 8.4V pack that would fit your car if you want a bit more pep. 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/batteries/rc-car-categories/9920/992025&MSAttributeID[32]=840&MSAttributeID[30]=600&MSAttributeID[107]=1169&InStockOnly=1

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Ah great - was going to ask for an ESC recommendation, as had seen the Hobbywing might be good enough if I stay brushed. Sport Tubed motor and bearings for the TerraScorcher?
 

Still not sure whether to go torque tuned or sport tuned for the MB - which was actually the original purpose of my thread!

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Quick follow up on this - when I install bearings do I still apply Tamiya grease to them or to any of the shafts that pass through them???

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Golden said:

Quick follow up on this - when I install bearings do I still apply Tamiya grease to them or to any of the shafts that pass through them???

 

 

Not needed, the purpose of the bearing is that the inner race spins relative to the outer race. Ideally there would be no rotation of the outer relative to bore or inner relative to shaft, this movement would induce wear. Normally bearings would have a press fit outer and a clamped inner race (or visa versa) if there is a large gap between the bearing and the housing or shaft, grease could actually hold bits of grit/dirt which will become a wear paste.. All that said, for Tamiya RC cars, if i got grease on the shaft the bearing was on I’d probably not bother to clean it and press on with the build.. I’m lazy and I imagine the amount of running I do the car will out live me by decades...

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On 10/12/2020 at 2:10 PM, MadInventor said:

You're right about the motors, sport tuned has more RPM and less torque, torque tuned has more torque but lower top end. 

LiPos aren't just about top speed, they are much lighter than Nimh (Which means less weight crashing down on the shell when you roll it, and also much longer run times, so don't discount them completely.

Your quest for more speed is inversely proportional to the desire to keep the model in one piece, for longevity of the model a RS380 will keep it in one piece for a long time, but you will need to find a subaru brat motor adapter plate !

Tamiya hard bodyshells are expensive to replace (and especially now with Covid, stocks of many things are very hard to come by), so I'd suggest getting a cheap polycarbonate to use to run it with until you get used to driving it. 

Other than than, a full set of roller bearings to replace the plastic ones, and a RW racing steel pinion to replace the kit aluminium one, which will wear very quickl

The monster beetle pinion is brass if I remember right. These are very hard wearing and if you are using the stock motor mount a normal length pinion will not work.  

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2 hours ago, slimleeroy said:

The monster beetle pinion is brass if I remember right. These are very hard wearing and if you are using the stock motor mount a normal length pinion will not work.  

yeah, you're right, I'd forgotten about that. 

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On 10/12/2020 at 7:19 PM, Golden said:

Ah great - was going to ask for an ESC recommendation, as had seen the Hobbywing might be good enough if I stay brushed. Sport Tubed motor and bearings for the TerraScorcher?
 

Still not sure whether to go torque tuned or sport tuned for the MB - which was actually the original purpose of my thread!

Can't have that now can we!? ;) Go Sport Tuned - the Torque Tuned isn't a huge step up over the stock silver can motor, and you can always swap it over into the Terra to see what you think of it there too.

The Hobbywing Quikrun 1060 is an excellent little ESC for brushed motors - it'll work fine with the Sports Tuned.

Your Terra bearings might be fine - depends on how much abuse they got when they were younger! Give them a good clean (I usually give mine a soak in WD40 for a day and then a soak in 3in1 oil to lube them back up (assuming they aren't sealed) 

18 hours ago, Golden said:

Quick follow up on this - when I install bearings do I still apply Tamiya grease to them or to any of the shafts that pass through them???

 

 

yes - always a good idea to add a bit of grease to all surfaces attached to a bearing and the bearing surfaces themselves

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Thanks for this - am new to this forum and really appreciate everyone’s time and advice!

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8 hours ago, jonboy1 said:

Can't have that now can we!? ;) Go Sport Tuned - the Torque Tuned isn't a huge step up over the stock silver can motor, and you can always swap it over into the Terra to see what you think of it there too.

The Hobbywing Quikrun 1060 is an excellent little ESC for brushed motors - it'll work fine with the Sports Tuned.

Your Terra bearings might be fine - depends on how much abuse they got when they were younger! Give them a good clean (I usually give mine a soak in WD40 for a day and then a soak in 3in1 oil to lube them back up (assuming they aren't sealed) 

yes - always a good idea to add a bit of grease to all surfaces attached to a bearing and the bearing surfaces themselves

I wouldn't grease the areas where bearings a either sat or attached to a shaft. You don't want the bearing to spin in the housing or the shaft to spin on the bearing housing. The whole idea of a bearing is the movement is transmitted through the balls against the race.  

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11 hours ago, slimleeroy said:

I wouldn't grease the areas where bearings a either sat or attached to a shaft. You don't want the bearing to spin in the housing or the shaft to spin on the bearing housing. The whole idea of a bearing is the movement is transmitted through the balls against the race.  

This isn't actually a problem unless you have a badly worn shaft. As power is passed through gears they will try and push each other apart, which puts pressure on the inner part of the roller bearing. This presses the shaft against the inner part of the roller bearing preventing it from spinning. I would say greasing metal on metal is a good idea to prevent water ingress rusting one surface against the other, especially for axle shafts on something like a Terra Scorcher. It's so easy to get water creeping onto the axles if you're running in the winter, then if you don't strip the car down and clean it over winter you end up with a bearing rusted onto the axle. 

Also, if you ever get a seized bearing due to water or grit getting in, a greased  shaft will have less chance of being badly worn than one with no grease on it.

 

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11 hours ago, slimleeroy said:

I wouldn't grease the areas where bearings a either sat or attached to a shaft. You don't want the bearing to spin in the housing or the shaft to spin on the bearing housing. The whole idea of a bearing is the movement is transmitted through the balls against the race.  

Yes and no - sort of. You're absolutely right, you don't want the bearing surfaces to be spinning against the housing or shaft. However, the only way this could be caused by grease is if the gap between the bearing and the housing/shaft surface was so big that it could allow grease to fit it. If this was the case, then grease is the least of your worries. The standard gap for a 6mm shaft in a bearing is about 0.016mm. Any grease inbetween those surfaces will get squashed out almost instantly as the parts warm up and expand due to friction.It will stay in any little surface imperfections, but it'll all almost all be gone. The point of putting grease on the surfaces is to help get the bearing to the right place without it jamming due to friction before it gets there and to help prevent corrosion and dirt ingress into the bearing surfaces.

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10 hours ago, jonboy1 said:

Yes and no - sort of. You're absolutely right, you don't want the bearing surfaces to be spinning against the housing or shaft. However, the only way this could be caused by grease is if the gap between the bearing and the housing/shaft surface was so big that it could allow grease to fit it. If this was the case, then grease is the least of your worries. The standard gap for a 6mm shaft in a bearing is about 0.016mm. Any grease inbetween those surfaces will get squashed out almost instantly as the parts warm up and expand due to friction.It will stay in any little surface imperfections, but it'll all almost all be gone. The point of putting grease on the surfaces is to help get the bearing to the right place without it jamming due to friction before it gets there and to help prevent corrosion and dirt ingress into the bearing surfaces.

I agree but we all know that tamiyas tolerances are.not the best. My manta ray and tip force among others the bearings drop out if they are invested in their housing. Not great

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