Turn buckles what do they do and are they worth while?

[Grumpy pants 4485]

Intrigued by these sets as they get mentioned quite a bit as a hop up?

Worth while on your runner or more for serious action?

Do they help set the toe in or toe out on your steering?

They don’t replace the kit steering rods do they? 

[Superluminal 3750]

I thought they were the worst thing in the world and hated them. They took so much torque to adjust that they continually popped off off the ball when you adjusted them, rounded of the turnbuckle or deformed the spanner or a combination of all three at once.

 

 

 

Then someone mentioned to put a little blob of grease in the eyelet when you make them. Now I quite like them.

[Silver-Can 402]

Turnbuckles are really used to connect any part of the car to any other. Typically they're used for steering and top arms front and rear. They can be used in other places too, for example to adjust the rigidity of the top deck of the chassis.

In general terms, their widest application is steering and top arms. The advantages are mostly adjustability and ease of adjustment. As most tamiya kits come with fixed plastic arms, they cannot be adjusted to suit.

Steering arms, for example are mostly a fixed length (be that plastic ala madbull, tl 01b etc or a metal rod with 2 screw on ball connectors at each end eg hotshot). However, as I'm sure you know, even with the most diligent measurements, often the car doesn't run true, so you can either adjust the trim on the tx or take the ball connector off and adjust from there (if the steering arms have them). Having turnbuckles instead allow you to use a little spanner to make those adjustments without the need to remove anything.

Adjustable top arms allow you to adjust the camber of your wheels/tyres with the top of the wheels either pointing 'in' towards the car (negative camber) or 'out' away from the car (positive camber). It is usual for cars to have about 2° of negative camber to allow for the tyres to have maximum contact patch on the running surface for maximum grip.

Hope that helps 👍

Edit: just to add - they are standard on any race orientated kit - I have put them on some of my tamiyas, but not all. More to do with being faffed to do it than anything else. They are useful, but not essential IMO.

[Wetman 417]

40 minutes ago, Silver-Can said:

Turnbuckles are really used to connect any part of the car to any other. Typically they're used for steering and top arms front and rear. They can be used in other places too, for example to adjust the rigidity of the top deck of the chassis.

In general terms, their widest application is steering and top arms. The advantages are mostly adjustability and ease of adjustment. As most tamiya kits come with fixed plastic arms, they cannot be adjusted to suit.

Steering arms, for example are mostly a fixed length (be that plastic ala madbull, tl 01b etc or a metal rod with 2 screw on ball connectors at each end eg hotshot). However, as I'm sure you know, even with the most diligent measurements, often the car doesn't run true, so you can either adjust the trim on the tx or take the ball connector off and adjust from there (if the steering arms have them). Having turnbuckles instead allow you to use a little spanner to make those adjustments without the need to remove anything.

Adjustable top arms allow you to adjust the camber of your wheels/tyres with the top of the wheels either pointing 'in' towards the car (negative camber) or 'out' away from the car (positive camber). It is usual for cars to have about 2° of negative camber to allow for the tyres to have maximum contact patch on the running surface for maximum grip.

Hope that helps 👍

Edit: just to add - they are standard on any race orientated kit - I have put them on some of my tamiyas, but not all. More to do with being faffed to do it than anything else. They are useful, but not essential IMO.

It helps. I knew about the madbull and lunchbox plastic arms etc but though the metal rod and ball cups were turnbuckles. I hadn`t realised that proper ones had the nut arrangement

 

[rich_f 233]

Turnbuckles have a right-handed thread at one end and left-handed thread at the other. This allows adjustment without unpopping your ball ends or unscrewing anything. 

They don't necessarily have a 'nut' - they can be round shafts with a hole in which you can turn with anything that will fit in it, or they can just be knurled or have a hexagonal cross section so can easily be gripped. 

If you have regular threaded rods with ball ends, turnbuckles aren't really necessary. You can adjust them easily enough by popping a ball off. I've raced rc cars for ages and never used them. 

If you have fixed-length arms then, well at least you know they will be equal each side 😊

[Carmine A 2046]

12 minutes ago, Wetman said:

It helps. I knew about the madbull and lunchbox plastic arms etc but though the metal rod and ball cups were turnbuckles. I hadn`t realised that proper ones had the nut arrangement

 

 

Technically.... Those Steering Arms on things like Lunchbox, Grasshopper, Mad Bull etc...

ARE a cheap Turnbuckle of sorts, because they do allow for length adjustments (for toe-in). 

A proper Turnbuckle, as in Performance applications, as stated, allows adjustments by turning the centre Shaft with a Spanner, Pliers, whatever. This gives an even adjustment of both sides evenly, without having to pop one side off every time. 

Several People don't like them, mainly because building them is fiddly. One end screws in clockwise, the other, anticlockwise. I could take them or leave them... 

@Superluminal, the better ones do turn much easier than they used to.

[Frog Jumper 3662]

Turnbuckles are the reason the sun rises each morning.  That's how important they are...

[TurnipJF 9192]

Turnbuckles aren't really necessary or useful for cars that run in straight lines most of the time, but for those that want to go around corners, the ability to fine tune suspension geometry without prematurely wearing out your ball connectors through popping them off and on again repeatedly is a worthwhile upgrade I think. 

Turnbuckles help with turning!

[Nicadraus 6201]

It is impossible to tune an on-road car, rally car or racing buggies without turnbuckles. These are not just bling or unnecessary items for the car. They are very important for steering and upper suspension arms as well as stabilizers and push rods for IFS (Inboard Front Suspension).  From toe in/out, front camber and rear camber in the case of TRF420 and the likes. 

[Grumpy pants 4485]

All great information, thank you.

I’ve taken from this monster truck off roaders really don’t require them. 

Race or road oriented chassis’ do benefit from them if you want to run true in a straight line or accurately around corners. 
 

 

[Silver-Can 402]

26 minutes ago, Grumpy pants said:

All great information, thank you.

I’ve taken from this monster truck off roaders really don’t require them. 

Race or road oriented chassis’ do benefit from them if you want to run true in a straight line or accurately around corners. 
 

 

Essentially, yes 👍. If precision is required then they are worthwhile. If you're bouncing around in a madbull etc then probably not so much...😁

[rich_f 233]

8 hours ago, Nicadraus said:

It is impossible to tune an on-road car, rally car or racing buggies without turnbuckles. These are not just bling or unnecessary items for the car. They are very important for steering and upper suspension arms as well as stabilizers and push rods for IFS (Inboard Front Suspension).  From toe in/out, front camber and rear camber in the case of TRF420 and the likes. 

I think you are confusing the term 'turnbuckle' to mean 'any adjustable-length connector'.

It most certainly is not impossible to tune a car's suspension and steering without them. Regular threaded rods with ball ends will do just fine, but as already said many times, they are slightly more difficult to adjust (need to pop the ball connector off) and can lead to prematurely wearing out the ball connector if done often enough. 

So in short, turnbuckles are not necessary, but if you want to adjust your suspension geometry, then either regular threaded rods (same thread direction at each end) or turnbuckles (different thread direction at each end - which allows the buckle to be turned, hence the name...) are. 

[SuttieB 2]

I'm starting a Frog build tomorrow and would like to centre mount the servo and fit turnbuckles.. Anyone recommend a solution?

Have been through all the posts with Frog AND turnbuckle as thought it would be quite common but I can't see anything.. 

[Frog Jumper 3662]

2 hours ago, SuttieB said:

I'm starting a Frog build tomorrow and would like to centre mount the servo and fit turnbuckles.. Anyone recommend a solution?

Have been through all the posts with Frog AND turnbuckle as thought it would be quite common but I can't see anything.. 

I’ll try and remember to post pix of Jumper later...

Terry

[Frog Jumper 3662]

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/95215-monster-beetle-steering/&do=findComment&comment=814573