THE HORNET

[NJW1975]

Hi all,

i'm aiming to get The Hornet as a Christmas present for my son and was after some advice.  Basically I want to make this model the best that it can be so was hoping that you lovely lot can tell me the best possible Hop Up options I can get for this model please (ideally i'd like to have all the hop-ups in place beforehand so I can incorporate in the build)?  Be it an upgraded Motor (probably not a brushless one as he's only 9) so the fastest brushed one that I can get, suspension (if a necessary upgrade) and any other things that is recommended?  We've had a lot of fun with a second hand prebuilt Rising Storm over lockdown and now he wants a brand new Hornet that we can build together.  This will be my first build although over the last months I've had to do a fair few repair jobs to our current one so reckon i'll be ok.

[Dakratfink]

IMHO, For a 9 year old, assuming first hobby grade kit I would say ball bearings in place of the kit plastic bushings, the electronics of your choice and send it. 
if the kit comes with the tble02 I would start with that and the included Silver can 540... 

Let him get used to driving it on the standard kit motor first. It’s easy and cheap enough  through another motor  in down the road. 

[Krustybus]

As above.

There's not all that much you can do with them without spending a fortune on special parts off Shapeways etc. T4 Works do some cool looking stuff for the Hornat/Grasshopper but the cost is high thanks to shipping.

Build it as it then stick a Sport Tuned in it an watch it as it flips over at every possible opportunity! 

[NJW1975]

Thank you Dakratfink for your comment, this is very helpful and good call on upgrading to ball bearings.  The rising storm which we have, I already upgraded the motor in that to a new sport tuned one which is has defiantly got to grips with so I reckon he'll be good to go with a better than stock motor provided.  i'm just not sure if the Sport Tuned one is the best that Tamiya supply and if there is a better one that I can put in.  i'd like to keep the Rising Storm running so that we can have a car each.

[NJW1975]

@ Krustybus interesting point, I don't really want it flipping all over the place, should I be looking at other cars then do you think?  My son really has his heart set on the hornet.  probably my fault as I loved this back in the day and seems to have the ground clearance the the 4wd buggies don't as his current Rising Storm keeps grounding out and getting stuck in places i'm sure the Hornet wouldn't

[Badcrumble]

I have a Hornet modded with AmPro parts from Shapeways - front arms, damper mount, hubs and uprights with upper arms made from M3 rod and Tamiya ends. I then have some Xtra Speed dampers all round. Motor is a standard silver can as 3D printed stuff might not be as flexible as Tamiya plastics in a collision!
It did take the bounciness out a bit so that it steers more in the general direction of where you point it than a standard Hornet.

My six year old loves it and always swaps his Dual Hunter for it when I bring it out of the garage.

The mods aren’t essential, just something I wanted to do.

You can monsterise a Hornet with bigger wheels too...

[NJW1975]

@Badcrumble Thank you for your comment.  Sounds pretty special the Hornet that you have.  To be honest, I didn't want to go to quite the extreme of as ordering 3D printed stuff, I wasn't aware until now that was even an option.  I was thinking more along the lines of Tamiya Hop-Up parts that are readily available and a better motor to put in it over the supplied one.  The hop-up of being fully ball raced is something I will defiantly do as advised above.

[DeadMeat666]

But.... There really are no Tamiya hop-ups for the Hornet. It's not that kind of buggy. Ball bearings are a very good idea, and a sport tuned is really all it can take without becoming undrivable.

[Mad Ax]

First point on the motor - try not to think of it in terms of brushless = fast and brushed = not so fast.  It's more a case of brushless = high-tech and brushed = old school.  A big block V8 with a Holley carb is archaic technology by today's standards but it can still make some insane dyno speeds and will outdrag your average hybrid commuter car on the quarter mile; on the other hand, a modern hybrid supercar is quick too.

The point is - fitting the fastest brushed motor you can get will be maximum overkill, especially in a limited chassis like the Hornet and especially with a 9-year-old behind the controls.  Brushless power is much more efficient than brushed, so if you went with a low-power brushless system you'd get better performance to the silvercan but much longer runtimes.  In all honesty, I'd start with the silvercan, or a sport tuned if he's already got to grips with that, then see if you want to improve from there.  There's a lot of budget-friendly brushed motors that will give an interesting increase in speed without making it totally daft  

Gearing is the biggest restriction to power in the Hornet - if you can't gear it right the motor will overheat.  The second biggest restriction is the chassis itself - no matter how many hopups you throw at it, it will always be a basic car, and too much motor might actually detract from the fun once you've killed a few sets of rear tyres (and potentially some chassis, too).

Now, in terms of hop-ups - it really depends on what direction you want to take it.  I'm not much of a Hornet expert and I don't know what Tamiya-made hop-ups are still available for it.  I'm pretty sure they once listed a complete oil damper conversion which should make a big difference, but I'm also fairly sure it's discontinued.  Most of the Hornet mods are either aftermarket, 3D printed or home-brew.  As mentioned, a bearing kit is probably the biggest single improvement you can make as you build it.  A steel pinion is worth getting if you'll be fitting a faster motor as well, as the stock pinion is made of cheese and will wear out quickly with a fast motor.

[NJW1975]

@Mad Ax This is very insightful, thank you so much.  At the end of the day, my son just wants to have fun with it and be able to go a few more places than he can with his Rising Storm and not get ground out by small sticks.  I'm kind of happy in a way that this isn't the type of car to be 'hopping-up' so to speak as it will save me a fortune and in all honestly it's me wanting to do this, not him as he couldn't care less.  Also it just goes to prove I have no clue in this hobby as only got involved in it since our first Covid lockdown.  I reckon I'll keep the Rising Storm for myself and see what kind of thing I can do with that as an experiment car, not that I've a clue about what gearing I need to change to or battery or ESC I need to use should I upgrade to a brushless motor.  What's the worst that can happen eh!! haha

[El Gecko]

39 minutes ago, Mad Ax said:

A steel pinion is worth getting if you'll be fitting a faster motor as well, as the stock pinion is made of cheese and will wear out quickly with a fast motor.

Sorry for taking this a bit off topic, but how do you tell if they're worn out? I'm still using the 35-year-old aluminum pinions in all my kits (seemingly) without issue.

[SupraChrgd82]

The Hornet is a great car in stock form. Most of the aftermarket components are more fragile (3D) or detract from performance (oil dampers).  Bearings, 2 sets of spare A-arms, and 1 spare gearbox case would be ample to keep it running reliably for a long time in the hands of the kiddo.

[Mad Ax]

14 minutes ago, El Gecko said:

Sorry for taking this a bit off topic, but how do you tell if they're worn out? I'm still using the 35-year-old aluminum pinions in all my kits (seemingly) without issue.

Take a look at the teeth and see if they're looking sharp.  They may well be asymmetrical, i.e. one side is steeper than the other.

The other thing you'll most likely see is a grey paste on your plastic gears, which is metal dust particles from the pinion and works like a grinding paste to destroy the gearbox.

That said, if you're using a stock motor, you may well get decades of use before they fail - some seem to wear quicker than others.

[NJW1975]

@SupraChrgd82 Thank you, this is very much appreciated

[Dakratfink]

Just out of pure curiosity, are you thinking of having him paint it box art, or let him get a little more creative ?   
Im thinking of picking up a new Re release body for an old vintage Hornet I’m currently running . There are several colors other than box art black that will look good with the included kit decals 

[Juggular]

5 hours ago, NJW1975 said:

seems to have the ground clearance the the 4wd buggies don't

Regrettably, Hornet/Grasshopper family doesn't have the ground clearance.  Off the top of my head, it has like 13mm of clearance because of the bulge of the rigid axle.  

I photoshopped the gearbox that's conveniently missing from the box art.  Its job is to hold onto every tree root with its dear life. 

One other issue is that because it's light, it does not have get enough traction (especially with spike tires of the Hornet).  Darting off the starting line is a bit tardy, but it can build up the speed.  

Also the Hornet has the annoying "gearbox slap." 

The Hornet's gearbox is mounted on vertical slots. Instead of just pivoting, these slots allow the pivoting points to move up and down. But physics has that useless habit of 'action-and-reaction.  So if the wheels turn forward, that pivot point wants to turn backwards.  Instead, it goes up and slapping the top of the slot every time you accelerate.   

There is an easy way to fix it.  AMPro has something that can hold the middle of it.  The right wheel could go up and down independently of left and visa versa.  Here is a link to @Pintopower's 3D part. You can check out Alberto's photos to see how it works:  https://www.shapeways.com/product/G72GAY3NL/transmission-brace-for-tamiya-rc-cw01-lunchbox?optionId=59473027&li=shops  (Edit: I thought there was a part for the Hornet, but I'm not seeing it, Lunchbox has different chassis, so that part might not work. Here is the correct part: https://www.shapeways.com/product/JAY8JS7SY/045005-04-hornet-transmission-retainer-trans-tab?optionId=59366106&li=shops.  Otherwise, you can do a 3rd shock mod.)  

Would I not get the Hornet because there are better buggies out there? The thing about the past is that we all look at the past with rosy glasses.  If you don't get the Hornet, you might end up getting it after 10 other cars.  When in doubt, I'd say get it and complain about the flaws later.  Of course, it helps to know the flaws, so you'd know what you are getting yourself into...

4 hours ago, El Gecko said:

Sorry for taking this a bit off topic, but how do you tell if they're worn out? I'm still using the 35-year-old aluminum pinions in all my kits (seemingly) without issue.

As MadAx already explained, it can last decades with a silver can.  Since I'm using Teflon grease, my aluminum pinions are doing fine with Sport Tuned motor too. 

Tamiya's standard ceramic grease is microscopic glass beads in oil. That stuff is much harder than aluminum.  Teflon, on the other hand, is plastic.  It's softer than aluminum and it's ultra slick.  Anything faster than Sport tuned?  I wouldn't just rely on Teflon grease, I'd get a steel pinion.  

 

[ploots]

I've got a rising storm that I use regular,I put a brushless combo in it earlier this year and it's great,at the weekend I tried a 2s Lipo and wow I can't believe the difference a lipo makes 

[TurnipJF]

3 hours ago, NJW1975 said:

Hi all,

i'm aiming to get The Hornet as a Christmas present for my son and was after some advice.  Basically I want to make this model the best that it can be so was hoping that you lovely lot can tell me the best possible Hop Up options I can get for this model please (ideally i'd like to have all the hop-ups in place beforehand so I can incorporate in the build)?  Be it an upgraded Motor (probably not a brushless one as he's only 9) so the fastest brushed one that I can get, suspension (if a necessary upgrade) and any other things that is recommended?  We've had a lot of fun with a second hand prebuilt Rising Storm over lockdown and now he wants a brand new Hornet that we can build together.  This will be my first build although over the last months I've had to do a fair few repair jobs to our current one so reckon i'll be ok.

Hello again!

A RC car is a brilliant Christmas present, and building one with your son is an excellent bonding opportunity, so good on you!

As others have said, the Hornet is not a car that can handle loads of power, neither is it one for which a great many hop-ups are available unless you want to delve into the world of 3D-printed parts.

If the kit is supplied with the ubiquitous TBLE-02 ESC, then there are a few motors that would fit the bill quite nicely. The Sport Tuned is a reliable brushed motor with a sealed can and enough of a performance boost relative to the stock motor to make things interesting, but not so much that the car will become undriveable. I run one in one of my Hornets, and can vouch for its suitability.

Another motor you may consider is the Tamiya Dirt Tuned. With replaceable brushes, this is a more interesting motor to look at, and also one that can be kept going for longer since when the brushes wear out you can replace them rather than having to replace the whole motor as is the case with the Sport Tuned. I run one of these in my Jun Watanabe Hornet, where the finned endbell and brush hoods give it a visual lift as well as improved but not excessive performance.

If you want to bring your Hornet into the present day power-wise, a 21.5t sensored brushless motor will give you the efficiency and minimal maintenance of brushless power without unmanageable levels of performance. The generic "Bluebottle" motors on eBay represent good value.

Whatever motor you choose, a steel pinion is a good idea as already stated. You'll want a 0.8 module 18-tooth item. Tony's Tamiya Parts had some rather nice Carson ones in stock last I looked. They are what I run on my Hornets.

I'm guessing that the car will see at least some offroad use, so rubber-sealed bearings are worth getting. RCBearings.co.uk have them in stock.

I know you have said that you don't want to go down the 3D-printed parts route, but should you change your mind, AmPro make some very useful parts for the Hornet including a transmission brace that stops the front of the gearbox pod from moving up and down each time you accelerate or brake, and a more secure battery door that doesn't pop off each time you land a jump. You can get these from his Shapeways shop.

Another course you may want to take though is to get a DT-03 Racing Fighter instead. WIth angular styling in much the same tradition as the Hornet, it has a reasonably realistic appearance along with a more modern chassis which in many ways is the 2WD equivalent of your Rising Storm, with independent double-wishbone suspension, CVA dampers, the ability to upgrade to turnbuckle tierods and track rods, etc. This would give you a more rugged and capable buggy at similar or lower cost to the Hornet, with spares that are more readily available and greater scope for upgrades.

You could even do as @Bromley has done and paint it in Hornet livery:

[Dakratfink]

Just out of pure curiosity, are you thinking of having him paint it box art, or let him get a little more creative ?   
Im thinking of picking up a new Re release body for an old vintage Hornet I’m currently running . There are several colors other than box art black that will look good with the included kit decals 

[Dakratfink]

“I know you have said that you don't want to go down the 3D-printed parts route, but should you change your mind, AmPro make some very useful parts for the Hornet including a transmission brace that stops the front of the gearbox pod from moving up and down each time you accelerate or brake, and a more secure battery door that doesn't pop off each time you land a jump. You can get these from his Shapeways shop.

Another course you may want to take though is to get a DT-03 Racing Fighter instead. WIth angular styling in much the same tradition as the Hornet, it has a reasonably realistic appearance along with a more modern chassis which in many ways is the 2WD equivalent of your Rising Storm, with independent double-wishbone suspension, CVA dampers, the ability to upgrade to turnbuckle tierods and track rods, etc. This would give you a more rugged and capable buggy at similar or lower cost to the Hornet, with spares that are more readily available and greater scope for upgrades”

 

 

 

 

I have the shapeways parts he mentioned . I can second the usefulness of them. 
I also second what he said about the DT-03 chassis 

[NJW1975]

@ploots i'm really interested to know the complete combinations you used to go brushless with your Rising Storm please???   I have no idea what i'm doing and this is exactly what i'd like to do to the one I have when my son gets his new car and it's passed on to me full time.

[NJW1975]

@Juggular Thank you so much, i'll be sure to keep hold of the links you've supplied.  My son pretty much has his heart set on the Hornet, he just thinks it looks really cool which I'm pretty pleased about as it's cheap, but I don't want him to be disappointed.  i'm more than happy to consider other options that you think would be far superior to the Hornet and the DT-03 certainly sounds like a viable option.  I can just tell my boy that I've been talking to the experts and I've been advised about better options.  nothing like a bit of good old manipulation haha

[NJW1975]

@TurnipJF hi and thank you so much for your response, you've certainly provided my with lots of valuable information.  Do you think then that the Hornet may not be the best decision to go for?  one of the quotes above "Would I not get the Hornet because there are better buggies out there?  The thing about the past is that we all look at it with rosy glasses.  If we don't get it now, we'll end up getting it after 10 other cars.  When in doubt, I'd say get it and complain about the flaws later." pretty much hit the nail on the head.

The image you supplied of the racing fighter in hornet livery certainly does look very cool.

[NJW1975]

@Dakratfink "Just out of pure curiosity, are you thinking of having him paint it box art, or let him get a little more creative ?   
Im thinking of picking up a new Re release body for an old vintage Hornet I’m currently running . There are several colors other than box art black that will look good with the included kit decals"

 

i'll let him have free run but i'm pretty sure he'll want to go with how it looks on the box

 

[TurnipJF]

1 hour ago, NJW1975 said:

@TurnipJF hi and thank you so much for your response, you've certainly provided my with lots of valuable information.  Do you think then that the Hornet may not be the best decision to go for?  one of the quotes above "Would I not get the Hornet because there are better buggies out there?  The thing about the past is that we all look at it with rosy glasses.  If we don't get it now, we'll end up getting it after 10 other cars.  When in doubt, I'd say get it and complain about the flaws later." pretty much hit the nail on the head.

The image you supplied of the racing fighter in hornet livery certainly does look very cool.

Well, thinking about my own fleet and which car I choose to take out for a drive at any given point, I would pick a Hornet when I want to get a feel of what it would have been like to be one of the "rich kids" back in the day, but I would pick a DT buggy if I just wanted to enjoy the driving experience, as nostalgia aside, it is superior in pretty much every respect. 

For a modern youth who may have little interest in experiencing something that the kids of the '80s either enjoyed or hankered after, a more modern buggy would be preferable I would think. Let him make his own memories with a buggy that is his contemporary. Then when he is older, he can buy a DT-03 40th Anniversary Edition re-release to relive his own youth.