storage or discharge?

[DayRider 311]

I have just taken delivery of a new charger and a few lipo battery's. I was going through the setting and  noticed a settings for storage and one for discharge. So I was wanting to know what one do I use after use? 

Its a Imax B6AC charger If that makes a difference.

[Bash 356]

Based on the product manual, the storage program will automatically decide whether to charge or discharge to 3.8v per cell based on the current voltage of the battery. I'd just use that mode.

[DayRider 311]

10 minutes ago, Bash said:

Based on the product manual, the storage program will automatically decide whether to charge or discharge to 3.8v per cell based on the current voltage of the battery. I'd just use that mode.

Nice one mate, thanks. what a surprise I got with the power compared to nihm. should of got them ages ago!

[ploots 185]

I totally agree with you on the power i tried a lipo the other day for the first time,it's an old 2s and I was blown away by it, I'm now ordering some new ones for myself 

I'm glad you asked the question about storage or discharge as my charger has the same I just set it to storage and hoped for the best

 

[Juggular 4964]

Everybody knows that all batteries die when completely drained.  But remember that LiPo batteries die slowly when fully charged.  That was news to me when I got my first LiPo.  So, I wouldn't top it off until an hour before you run it.  

If it rains suddenly, so you decide not to run it?  Use the "storage charge" function on your Imax B6 to drop it back down to about half-charged stage.  

 

[Wooders28 4723]

The B6 has a cut off after 2hrs, (Not sure if the B6ac is the same), so if it's a fully charged 5000mah,  it may cut out before it's fully discharged/storage charged.

[mud4fun 1696]

1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

The B6 has a cut off after 2hrs, (Not sure if the B6ac is the same), so if it's a fully charged 5000mah,  it may cut out before it's fully discharged/storage charged.

Yeah, my SkyRC T100 does the same, you have to run the storage charge multiple times until it finally gets to the correct storage charge.

[Matty36 267]

I never know how long storage mode lasts, I ruined my last few packs because I didn't use them for a year and they puffed up. 

[Nicadraus 6198]

Storage mode is supposed to be done when the batteries won't be used for at least two weeks or more. I only discharge my batteries after a full day usage or event race then store charge after.

[Wooders28 4723]

5 hours ago, Matty36 said:

I never know how long storage mode lasts, I ruined my last few packs because I didn't use them for a year and they puffed up. 

Thanks for the reminder, some of mine haven't been checked for almost that time!! 

Depends the quality and where they're stored I guess? Some volts trickle away over time, and if they drop past 3v, they're usually not good.

[DayRider 311]

7 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

The B6 has a cut off after 2hrs, (Not sure if the B6ac is the same), so if it's a fully charged 5000mah,  it may cut out before it's fully discharged/storage charged.

I will check that out mate thanks

[Carmine A 2046]

11 hours ago, DayRider said:

I have just taken delivery of a new charger and a few lipo battery's. I was going through the setting and  noticed a settings for storage and one for discharge. So I was wanting to know what one do I use after use? 

Its a Imax B6AC charger If that makes a difference.

ALWAYS Storage Charge! Unless you're planning on using the Battery within a week.... 

I've got the B6AC (Certified genuine) and it has no cutoff. I can cycle any Battery I want. My best guess is that the cutoff is to protect DC Power Supplies from abuse or over discharge...

Especially for the People DUMB enough to charge/discharge a Lipo IN their Car's Engine Compartment, using the Car's Batry. 😖

[DayRider 311]

1 minute ago, Carmine A said:

ALWAYS Storage Charge! Unless you're planning on using the Battery within a week.... 

I've got the B6AC (Certified genuine) and it has no cutoff. I can cycle any Battery I want. My best guess is that the cutoff is to protect DC Power Supplies from abuse or over discharge...

Especially for the People DUMB enough to charge/discharge a Lipo IN their Car's Engine Compartment, using the Car's Batry. 😖

Nice one mate it all new to me. I respect your advice and it's always welcome.

[Carmine A 2046]

If your ESCs come with adjustable Lipo Cutoff voltages.... Set them to 3.4v/Cell. 

You CAN go as low as 3.2/3.3v safely... But Battery life will be much longer using 3.4v.  You may lose about a minute or two of Runtime (out of 25-50 minutes for a 3000-4000 MAh Lipo!), but your Batteries will last significantly longer! 😉

[Wooders28 4723]

1 hour ago, Carmine A said:

Especially for the People DUMB enough to charge/discharge a Lipo IN their Car's Engine Compartment, using the Car's Batry. 😖

Kind of makes sense, all the early ones where 12v, and came with a 240/12v transformer, until they incorporated it into the B6ac later on.

Is that why the B6ac can discharge at double the original B6's 1amp? 

1 hour ago, Carmine A said:

But Battery life will be much longer using 3.4v.  You may lose about a minute or two of Runtime (out of 25-50 minutes for a 3000-4000 MAh Lipo!)

Depending on the motor, running a low turn, 3.4 - 3.6v will leave the Lipo at around storage voltage when resting, as the volts drop under load. I do that with my Mid, and still get over 6 mins out of a 4800mah, but seconds on the charger, and it's good for storage 

[simalarion 2196]

11 hours ago, Juggular said:

Everybody knows that all batteries die when completely drained.  But remember that LiPo batteries die slowly when fully charged.  That was news to me when I got my first LiPo.  So, I wouldn't top it off until an hour before you run it.  

If it rains suddenly, so you decide not to run it?  Use the "storage charge" function on your Imax B6 to drop it back down to about half-charged stage.  

 

Warning: Newbie Deluxo: I never bothered changing to LiPo but my latest ESC have suport for LiPO (i actuall had to buy a program card to re-program it to NimH support, i can change a lot of other settings to so fun to have). But i stil dont quite sure if i can just set the ESC to LiPO and start using LiPo battery?, if yes what type of LiPo can i buy? (i know so much that i would need a Dean socket, i have soldering set), and then i would probably need a new charger as well, what charger can be recomend?. 

On the ESC i had to set cutoof to normal, i believe that is because you can not drain the battery completely?. I also use to charge the NimH battery after driving but they are ofthen almost drained next time a wanted to drive so i stopped doing that. 

[Carmine A 2046]

1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

Kind of makes sense, all the early ones where 12v, and came with a 240/12v transformer, until they incorporated it into the B6ac later on.

Is that why the B6ac can discharge at double the original B6's 1amp? 

Depending on the motor, running a low turn, 3.4 - 3.6v will leave the Lipo at around storage voltage when resting, as the volts drop under load. I do that with my Mid, and still get over 6 mins out of a 4800mah, but seconds on the charger, and it's good for storage 

Very true. I forgot about the Beast Mode Motors... as I no longer have the space, or any proper Track to run them. They will discharge a Battery HARD. 

3.4 to 3.6v is a good range, and will prevent Core Boiling (you DO NOT WANT TO KNOW what that's like!!)  Be careful... Some ESCs default at 3.1v to 3.2v - Legally SAFE, but detrimental to the Battery itself.

[Wooders28 4723]

35 minutes ago, simalarion said:

I never bothered changing to LiPo but my latest ESC have suport for LiPO

What's the esc?

[simalarion 2196]

23 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

What's the esc?

HobbyWing QUICRUN 880 80/400A Dual 1/10-1/8th Scale Car/Buggy Brushed Speed Controller

[Juggular 4964]

36 minutes ago, simalarion said:

if i can just set the ESC to LiPO and start using LiPo battery?

It's all about battery protection.  ESCs use electricity. It does not care where the electrons come from. However, ESCs have cutoff voltage.  LiPo wants to cut it at 3.8v per cell, while NiMH can go lower.  If you set the ESC to NiMH and use a LiPo battery with that? The ESC will drain the battery too much.  LiPo battery will be damaged.  So don't rely on the battery cut off unless it's set for LiPo.  

You can get a 2S (2 cell) LiPo.  They have 20-100C discharge rate. For the most part, anything would do.  The "C-rating" is how fast electrons flow once the floodgate is opened.  For bashers with brushed motors or 13.5t brushless, or 3000kv, even 20C is plenty.  Don't get below 10C, that's for transmitters and receivers.  If you get 1C, that's like using AA alkaline batteries.  

The other important thing in choosing a battery is the connector and size.  If the battery you want comes with the connector that fits your ESC's, that's good.  Otherwise, you'd need to solder or get an adapter.  Unlike NiMH that uses subC cells, Lipos come in many different sizes, so it's important to check the size.  Also even if the dimension is right, different shape could be a problem. 

You measure your NiMH that fits your car. It came out to be 138x47x25mm.  So you buy one that's same exact dimension.  But it's different shape!  Oh no!  Yeah, that could happen. (I'm not saying this comes from an experience)

 

Imax B6 has set the standard for battery chargers, but there are plenty of other chargers that do equally good job.  

 

[mud4fun 1696]

1 hour ago, simalarion said:

 I also use to charge the NimH battery after driving but they are ofthen almost drained next time a wanted to drive so i stopped doing that. 

Something not right there

I ALWAYS fully discharge and then fully charge all my NiCd and NiMh battery packs after use and before putting into storage. I have packs that are 20 years old and are only now showing 20% drops in capacity despite thousands of charge and use cycles.

The only reason I'm switching from NiCd to LiPo is for longer run times. All my NiCd/NiMh's are generally 2000mah - 3000mah. A 20% drop in capacity after 20 years means they are unable to run my 13T Dyna Run super touring motors for a full 5 minute race + warm up. They used to do 8 mins when brand new.

My Kids are still using my 2000mah NiCd packs that date back to 1998-2002 and they are still lasting 10-15 mins even now with silver cans and my daughters are using these packs for their postal racing and garden racing. Easily still capable of a 5 min race

The caveat here is that ALL my NiCd packs are made up from 1998-2003 era Sanyo cells, possibly the finest cells available at the time, and they have been routinely cycled every year through at least one full discharge/recharge cycle AND I use a quality charger - a PRO-PEAK Super Nova charger/discharger. I still use this now as it is far superior to the cheap and nasty SkyRc T100 which wrecks NiCD's and NiMh's.

My daughters 18yr old NiCd's can remain in storage for months and still provide a 5 minute race worth of charge using the above technique.

EDIT: I have over 20 NiCd/NiMh packs (most over 18 yrs old) and 4 LiPo packs, none is suffering any significant losses in capacity while stored. The LiPos are always charged in storage charge mode before storage and then charged just before use. They are a PITA as they are nowhere near as useful as NiCd's for poor UK weather where you need to just pickup a battery and go race during a good weather window. We have found in the last few weeks that 18yr old NiCd's are far superior to LiPos in just about every respect other than weight.

 

[Wooders28 4723]

39 minutes ago, simalarion said:

HobbyWing QUICRUN 880 80/400A Dual 1/10-1/8th Scale Car/Buggy Brushed Speed Controller

As far as I know, It's a duel motor version of the 1080, so can be programmed with the card (as you have done, so...). To set for nimh ,you would have disabled the cut off, so to run lipo, you'd have to enable it again, and set the cut off to at least 3v, although, as above 3.4v is a safer voltage.

The clod (presume with a duel motor), will take most 2s stick batteries, (The Core RC CR293 being the, goto)  but if you're still on silvercans, runs well on 3s, but need to start trimming parts off the ,side battery access part ,for wire access.

 

26 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

We have found in the last few weeks that 18yr old NiCd's are far superior to LiPos in just about every respect other than weight

Weight, higher voltage and higher discharge! 

I tried going back to Nimh a few years back, and it was like going back to watching a CRT TV after getting used to 4K, the car felt positively pedestrian with no get up and go, struggled clearing table tops right after corners etc,  I've given all mine away now (sorry, I've kept an old Nicad,  for sentimental reasons..) 

[simalarion 2196]

40 minutes ago, Juggular said:

It's all about battery protection.  ESCs use electricity. It does not care where the electrons come from. However, ESCs have cutoff voltage.  LiPo wants to cut it at 3.8v per cell, while NiMH can go lower.  If you set the ESC to NiMH and use a LiPo battery with that? The ESC will drain the battery too much.  LiPo battery will be damaged.  So don't rely on the battery cut off unless it's set for LiPo.  

You can get a 2S (2 cell) LiPo.  They have 20-100C discharge rate. For the most part, anything would do.  The "C-rating" is how fast electrons flow once the floodgate is opened.  For bashers with brushed motors or 13.5t brushless, or 3000kv, even 20C is plenty.  Don't get below 10C, that's for transmitters and receivers.  If you get 1C, that's like using AA alkaline batteries.  

The other important thing in choosing a battery is the connector and size.  If the battery you want comes with the connector that fits your ESC's, that's good.  Otherwise, you'd need to solder or get an adapter.  Unlike NiMH that uses subC cells, Lipos come in many different sizes, so it's important to check the size.  Also even if the dimension is right, different shape could be a problem. 

You measure your NiMH that fits your car. It came out to be 138x47x25mm.  So you buy one that's same exact dimension.  But it's different shape!  Oh no!  Yeah, that could happen. (I'm not saying this comes from an experience)

 

Imax B6 has set the standard for battery chargers, but there are plenty of other chargers that do equally good job.  

 

I can «program» the ESC for LiPo, right now it is set for NimH because thats all i have (ser picture). After learning more now i may go for LiPo soon, probably something i can ad on the list to Santa this year.

[mud4fun 1696]

1 minute ago, Wooders28 said:

Weight, higher voltage and higher discharge! 

I tried going back to Nimh a few years back, and it was like going back to watching a CRT TV after getting used to 4K, the car felt positively pedestrian with no get up and go, struggled clearing table tops right after corners etc,  I've given all mine away now (sorry, I've kept an old Nicad,  for sentimental reasons..) 

Incorrect!

Most of my NiCd packs are 8.4v, and they deliver that 8.4v for the far greater duration of a 5 minute race than LiPos which reduce to 7.6v by half race distance.

LiPos have only two advantages for me and that is weight and runtimes - you couldn't get a 5000mah NiCd 20 years ago (and after allowing for the loss of bottom 20% of charge the capacity is not massively better)

Performance is actually minimal difference between a 2S LiPo and an 8.4v NiCd over a 5 minute race - trust me, I've done thousands of race laps using them back to back. The only gains have been in weight NOT voltage.

LiPos suffer from over hype from people that have simply had bad experiences with cheap and nasty NiMh's - had they experienced quality NiCd's their attitudes would be very different.

 

 

[DayRider 311]

14 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

As far as I know, It's a duel motor version of the 1080, so can be programmed with the card (as you have done, so...). To set for nimh ,you would have disabled the cut off, so to run lipo, you'd have to enable it again, and set the cut off to at least 3v, although, as above 3.4v is a safer voltage.

The clod (presume with a duel motor), will take most 2s stick batteries, (The Core RC CR293 being the, goto)  but if you're still on silvercans, runs well on 3s, but need to start trimming parts off the ,side battery access part ,for wire access.

 

Weight, higher voltage and higher discharge! 

I tried going back to Nimh a few years back, and it was like going back to watching a CRT TV after getting used to 4K, the car felt positively pedestrian with no get up and go, struggled clearing table tops right after corners etc,  I've given all mine away now (sorry, I've kept an old Nicad,  for sentimental reasons..) 

There is one thing I have found that having less weight with lipo, nihm batteries work better when the ground is damp.