Egress motor choice: I have TZ but should I BZ or Dynatech? What brushed motor do you have on your Egress?

[Mechanic AH 581]

My next build happening soon will be the Egress (2013). I'm going more classic and using a brushed motor/esc combo.

I currently have a new Tamiya TZ in storage and since I have it, planned on using it. But when I started researching more about the Egress (2013), it looks like the BZ was the motor for it—in some of the official pictures. Is this an accurate assumption? The BZ and TZ both are 23T, 26.5K rpm, 500 g/cm torque.

But their description is quite different and so is the recommendation (going to include the RZ for reference):
BZ: This is a high torque motor designed for R/C off road cars. Gear ratio 9:1 — 11:1
TZ: A high torque motor is designed for endurance race or low speed track. Gear ratio 6.5:1 — 8:1
RZ: A high revolution motor designed for sprint race or high speed track. (27.5K rpm) Gear ratio  6.5:1 — 7.5:1

The Egress stock gear ratio is 8.25:1. Sometimes my goal with builds is to somewhat match an appropriate or officially designated motor. And so is it the BZ? Will having a TZ feel less? And am I not thinking of a better/official Tamiya motor for the Egress? In that case, what would be a perfect Tamiya motor? In terms of being period correct, official, or the right performance?

The other motor(s), I saw on the original Egress I thought of was a Dynatech 01R 17T (is that better than the motors above?). Or the Dynatech 02H. What would make the Egress cooler? The Zs or the Dynatechs?

I'm also curios to hear from those who have an Egress and uses brushed motors. What are you using and how is it? Thanks.

 

[mud4fun 1696]

We run Dyna Run Super Touring motors (33K+ rpm) in all our Avante class buggies (including Egress) and have done for 20 years. I'm also running one in my Thundershot at the moment.

In the Avante2001/Egress we use 17-19t pinions on short twisty tracks or off road and 20-22t pinions on longer tarmac tracks

All ours are now running HW1060 ESC's and 2S Lipo's* and the Dyna Runs (fitted with heatsinks) and ESC's remain cool enough for 5 mins tarmac races even on the 21t pinion but off road especially grass we need to run smaller pinions to avoid the ESC's cutting out. 

Depending on pinion size top speed varies from 30-40+ mph

Performance is very good, punchy, good acceleration and enough power to deliver donuts and drifting with relative ease especially on large pink spikes. We find the motors handle a wide variety of usage from twisty dirt to fast tarmac but they do need the pinion changing to suit the track. Not a motor that you can just leave one pinion in for all conditions as the motors will get a bit toasty!

*I do run an 8.4v NiCd occasionally as it gives better punch than my LiPos for drifting and donuts but my 2000mah 8.4v NiCd's only last about 8 mins run time with this motor so we prefer the 4000-5000mah LiPos that give 15-20mins albeit with reduced performance. We used to use Novak rooster ESC's but this year swapped to the small lightweight 1060's that seem to be coping so far.

[Mechanic AH 581]

38 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

We run Dyna Run Super Touring motors (33K+ rpm) in all our Avante class buggies (including Egress) and have done for 20 years.

Sounds like a great motor. Kinda pricey! isn't that motor originally designed for on-road? Makes me think about the motor but maybe the restrictions (like overheating, and lower pinion) makes it less idea. On a side note. On a side note. What ESC does better? The old Novak or the 1060? Thanks. 

[mud4fun 1696]

52 minutes ago, Mechanic AH said:

Sounds like a great motor. Kinda pricey! isn't that motor originally designed for on-road? Makes me think about the motor but maybe the restrictions (like overheating, and lower pinion) makes it less idea. On a side note. On a side note. What ESC does better? The old Novak or the 1060? Thanks. 

Yes, it depends on where you will be running the car. If you only ever run on one surface or one place then agreed, it makes much more sense to just get a motor that works best for that.

In our case we tend to run on a wide variety of surfaces and locations and track designs (we change our garden track every few years and this year we have also been doing postal racing on a local car park) so the DRST is fine for us, seems to cope well with a larger variety of conditions than it was probably designed for. I think if I was running only off road I'd choose a high torque motor such as BZ I guess although the DRST is still rated at 380g and that is with 7.2v, with my 8.4v the motor becomes extremely 'entertaining' 

I bought four DRST's new about 20 years ago, approx £40 each back then plus a load of brushes. All the brushes have now been used up and a couple of my rotors need a bit of work. New brushes are easy enough to find but less so new rotors. However I have managed to pickup a couple more new ones this year (£40 each) plus a few well used ones too. Between them all I should have enough to rebuild four motors and that should last me another few years 

As for the ESC's, without a shadow of a doubt the Novak Roosters are far superior to the 1060 in most respects, especially braking and not overheating (they have double the cooling fin area for a start BUT the 1060 is half the weight and half the physical footprint so is alot easier to fit into cars and as I was going on a weight saving spree this year (especially the thundershot) I replaced all my ESC's, receivers and servos with lighter versions in addition to swapping to LiPos. Total weight saving on the thundershot was nearly 300g!!! Even the Avante2001/Egress are now 180g lighter than before. (Actually the Avante2001 is even lighter because I swapped to carbon decks too)

EDIT: Do remember that the Dyna Run Super Touring (DRST) is a 33K rpm motor, one of the highest rpm motors Tamiya did, only two other brushed motors that I recall have higher rpm? (super modified 11t being one and a TRF motor which I can't remember) This means even with a smaller pinion your top speed is not reduced by as much as you think. On a 19t pinion an Egress with a DRST will still be quicker than most other motors running 20 or even 21 tooth pinions, well that has certainly been my findings anyway. Add in 8.4v and the Egress becomes a bullet  

[mud4fun 1696]

I think if I was buying new motors today for these buggies I'd probably go with the BZ or TZ (or brushless). Remember I bought my DRST's 20 yrs ago so they are old designs now. At the time they were very impressive motors and coupled with 8.4v they gave performance back then that is probably now comparable to a 6.5T brushless on 2S or 11.5T on 3S?? Certainly in that sort of ballpark for performance 20 yrs ago when compared with most other motors at the time. Oddly I don't recall it being that expensive a motor back then, not much more than my Reedy 19T's at the time?

I actually swapped to the DRST motors from Technigolds. I used to have a dozen Technigolds but I honestly don't understand why people think they are so good, the brush design is abysmal and their performance was not that great, pretty low rpm from memory too? They were very heavy and pulled high amps for little actual gain. They were amazing in the mid 80's when first introduced but by the mid 90's there were plenty of far superior motors. Going to the Dyna Runs after having technigolds was like going from a silver can to a BZ! 

[Rb4276 803]

I recently built my avante black and put a superstock bz in it and used the recommended  i believe17t pinion for the correct gear ratio. On 2s it is not bad about the same as the  reedy 15t radon 2 i put in at first. The reedy just got to hot and is really just one of the chinese rebadged motors. I will tell you having the rz also in the past there isnt really any difference between them unless maybe the gearing as recommended does, that i dont know. I will be replacing it with a brushless i ordered on  black friday, a hobbywing 10.5 v3 g10. 

[Fuijo 880]

11 hours ago, Mechanic AH said:

But their description is quite different and so is the recommendation (going to include the RZ for reference):

They are all 3 much of a muchness. The gear ratios are taking into account that off-road wheels are significantly larger than touring car wheels, which is why the BZ recommends around FDR 10 and the other two around FDR 7.

All three will work fine in the Egress with the BZ's recommended ratio, you just wont get the little sock thingy unless you buy the BZ.

[mtbkym01 4008]

I have the BZ ready for my Egress when I get around to building it

[Snappy1 966]

Dynatech 02H 

[Avante2001R 305]

10 hours ago, Snappy1 said:

Dynatech 02H 

10x2 in the Egress 13T pinion, 49.9k rpm and 12x2 in the Avante BS 14T pinion. 42.6k rpm

[Avante2001R 305]

[Mechanic AH 581]

1 hour ago, Avante2001R said:

Nice motors! Is that an LRP and Yokomo? I like the ESC too. So what’s it like running an 10 and 12T brushed motor on the Egress/Avante with those pinion gears/FDR? 

[Avante2001R 305]

53 minutes ago, Mechanic AH said:

Nice motors! Is that an LRP and Yokomo? I like the ESC too. So what’s it like running an 10 and 12T brushed motor on the Egress/Avante with those pinion gears/FDR? 

Yes correct LRP and a Yokomo.

Actually used to run 12x3 and 12x4 back in the day early 90s on the Egress with 14/15t pinions  Works really well but now with Lipo you get better punch and run times.  

As for tyres I’m using 2.2 DF03 wheels with Schumacher tyres.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFIQ12IjKEy

[Rb4276 803]

2 hours ago, Avante2001R said:

10x2 in the Egress 13T pinion, 49.9k rpm and 12x2 in the Avante BS 14T pinion. 42.6k rpm

What servo saver are you using or servo horn? I use the white kimbrough with protek high speed servos. They are good but still get some play. 

[Avante2001R 305]

On 11/30/2020 at 1:41 AM, Rb4276 said:

What servo saver are you using or servo horn? I use the white kimbrough with protek high speed servos. They are good but still get some play. 

Not sure it was in my TRF 501