RCMart (& Others) now charging 20% VAT to UK

[jupitertwo]

8 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

And let's not forget that RCMart and RCJaz weren't even the cheapest at one point, I'm pretty sure Banzai hobby were cheaper still but Tamiya refused to carry on supplying them because they were getting complaints from other vendors.

Oh yeah, Banzai! they used to be my go to for Kyosho bits. Last few times I checked they were always out of stock sadly.

[nowinaminute]

looks like you can use surface shipping again for some items on RCMart but it still increases by a dollar or two every time you add anything to the basket even if it's a pack of nylon washers that weigh 1g. So a little better but still not back to normal. The 20% wouldn't be so bad if the shipping went back to how it was with defined price bands with weight allowances.

[Badcrumble]

If I get this right @jupitertwo, orders over £135 are still under the old system of import tax / VAT and handling fee so they won't be the good deal they were. I'm glad I picked up my SCX10iii before Christmas. 

I just tried to look at the gov.uk site to check on items over £135 and got sent in a loop. It seems to direct you to withdrawn guidance! 

 

 

[jupitertwo]

21 minutes ago, Badcrumble said:

If I get this right @jupitertwo, orders over £135 are still under the old system of import tax / VAT and handling fee so they won't be the good deal they were. I'm glad I picked up my SCX10iii before Christmas. 

I just tried to look at the gov.uk site to check on items over £135 and got sent in a loop. It seems to direct you to withdrawn guidance! 

 

 

Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see what @Truck Norris’s experience is with his delayed Tamico order. I avoided courier RCMart stuff in the past, as that was always billed for customs charges. I don’t recall if their processing fee was any better than Royal Mail’s.

If folks like Tamico are able to remove the VAT before sending, that’ll be great. That’s the main pain, being pinged twice for 19/20%. I would wonder if the VAT processing fee becomes part of the couriers competitive advantage.

 

[Robert5000]

39 minutes ago, jupitertwo said:

.If folks like Tamico are able to remove the VAT before sending, that’ll be great. That’s the main pain, being pinged twice for 19/20%. I would wonder if the VAT processing fee becomes part of the couriers competitive advantage.

Norway isn't a member of the EU, Tamico removes the German VAT prior to checkout (when I log in) so they have a solution for that. Though Norway is a part of the EEA (European Economic Area) agreement, which the UK is not, so that may be a snag that needs resolving for all I know.  

[dannymulder]

3 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

looks like you can use surface shipping again for some items on RCMart but it still increases by a dollar or two every time you add anything to the basket even if it's a pack of nylon washers that weigh 1g. So a little better but still not back to normal. The 20% wouldn't be so bad if the shipping went back to how it was with defined price bands with weight allowances.

I hope that shipping prices are going back to normal at RCMart bought a lot from them, but the shipping cost are insane now, what I do not understand that asiatees stil have low shipping cost, ordered a G.T power pro light unit from them and the shipping cost where. 0.7 euro cents, and the can ship a kit for 35 euro, when I want a kit from RCMart it cost me almost 100 euro to ship

[Badcrumble]

2 hours ago, dannymulder said:

I hope that shipping prices are going back to normal at RCMart bought a lot from them, but the shipping cost are insane now, what I do not understand that asiatees stil have low shipping cost, ordered a G.T power pro light unit from them and the shipping cost where. 0.7 euro cents, and the can ship a kit for 35 euro, when I want a kit from RCMart it cost me almost 100 euro to ship

Unfortunately, for UK buyers, Asiatees doesn't appear to have changed its stance since the New Year  - 

A:For standard airmail services, we declare all outward parcels as "Gift", with a value of $100 HKD (~$13 USD). Depending on the destination country you may be taxed on this $100 HKD value. If you select the "Gift" option during checkout, your invoice will also not show any prices.
For courier shipping such as Fedex, DHL and TNT, you are subject to any VAT and import taxes incurred. ATees is not responsible to pay for local taxes and your request to cancel an entire order due to VAT or import tax issues will not be accepted.

So any Asiatees order could be subject to a 'handling' fee on top of VAT upon arrival in the UK.

[nowinaminute]

35 minutes ago, Badcrumble said:

Unfortunately, for UK buyers, Asiatees doesn't appear to have changed its stance since the New Year  - 

A:For standard airmail services, we declare all outward parcels as "Gift", with a value of $100 HKD (~$13 USD). Depending on the destination country you may be taxed on this $100 HKD value. If you select the "Gift" option during checkout, your invoice will also not show any prices.
For courier shipping such as Fedex, DHL and TNT, you are subject to any VAT and import taxes incurred. ATees is not responsible to pay for local taxes and your request to cancel an entire order due to VAT or import tax issues will not be accepted.

So any Asiatees order could be subject to a 'handling' fee on top of VAT upon arrival in the UK.

I'm not sure what would happen to be honest. If the item was under £135 then technically it's now on the seller to charge the VAT on their end and pay it to HMRC.

I'm not sure how it would be proven if these fees had been recovered by the seller or not? I can't see how you could scan a barcode and it would come up "yes asiatees charged the VAT and will pay it to HMRC in 4 months" 

Unless there's some realtime way to verify if a particular parcel has an item inside that has had VAT paid and that said VAT will be paid to HMRC during the next return, surely they are going to have to just assume that all incoming parcels with a value under £135 have had the VAT taken at point of sale?

I really don't know how it will work in those situations. For all we know, we could end up with a £135 loophole in place of the old £15 wavier. Only problem is sites like ebay charge the VAT on behalf of most sellers so there's no way out of it lol.

 

[nowinaminute]

One thing I just noticed with my ebay items that are enrolled in the "global shipping platform" is that when I view the items as if I was in France or Italy etc, there is now an added fee besides shipping just like if order from outside of the EU. I thought there was now a free trade deal in place? I guess this so called "import fee" is really a "extra paperwork fee"? Because as far as I can tell, there should be no actual duty to pay because of the trade deal. It would be nice if they could clarify what the fee actually is.

[Badcrumble]

 

1 hour ago, Badcrumble said:

Unfortunately, for UK buyers, Asiatees doesn't appear to have changed its stance since the New Year  - 

A:For standard airmail services, we declare all outward parcels as "Gift", with a value of $100 HKD (~$13 USD). Depending on the destination country you may be taxed on this $100 HKD value. If you select the "Gift" option during checkout, your invoice will also not show any prices.
For courier shipping such as Fedex, DHL and TNT, you are subject to any VAT and import taxes incurred. ATees is not responsible to pay for local taxes and your request to cancel an entire order due to VAT or import tax issues will not be accepted.

So any Asiatees order could be subject to a 'handling' fee on top of VAT upon arrival in the UK.

If using DHL on Asiatees, it should be noted that DHL add an admin fee if they have to work out VAT - 

https://mydhl.express.dhl/gb/en/help-and-support/customs-clearance-advice/duties-and-taxes.html#/receiving_shipments

Why do I have to pay an Advance Payment or Disbursement charge?

When DHL pays Duty and VAT on your behalf, an Advance Payment or Disbursement charge will be added to your Duty and VAT statement/invoice for clearing the shipment through customs.

The charge is currently £11.00 or 2.5% of the total Duty and/or VAT incurred, whichever is the greater.

If the total Duty and/or VAT incurred is less than £440 then a flat amount of £11.00 will be incurred as this is less than 2.5%

For example, if the total Duty and/or VAT amount equals £125.80, then £11.00 will apply.

The 2.5% will be incurred if the total Duty and/or VAT is greater than £440.00. For example, if the total Duty and/or VAT amount equals £490.00 then an amount of 2.5% will apply i.e. £12.25.

[Badcrumble]

@nowinaminute I have a feeling that if the VAT is not shown as paid we will be liable to pay it and incur a handling fee from Royal Mail / alternative courier as noted in my DHL example above, even if the goods are under £135. Unless they 'slip through the net'  (I'm not betting on this).

As for your 'import fee', I would say that is just an admin fee!

[nowinaminute]

Makes sense in theory but I can't see how they could possibly screen every single package coming in. I'm not sure how they would tell from the outside and they woudlnt have the resources to open each package and look for a VAT receipt etc.

[Badcrumble]

I imagine they expect VAT to be stipulated in the outside label, in the way the value had been noted before.

As you say, how can they check them all? I honestly don't know how it works! Will there be container A on the plane - over £135 and container B - under £135?!

[futureworks]

So I've now had my first experience of having purchased post-Brexit, with a couple of items (small parts) which arrived here in the UK from Japan today. The purchase was through eBay, so they added 20% vat to the price I paid, not that the seller would know about this. My worry was that the seller would in no way reflect that VAT had been paid on their postage label or customs form (as they wouldn't know), and I wondered if I'd get stung for a charge this end. In the end, the item came straight through the postal system, and was delivered by our local postie today. The customs form clearly shows an 8000 yen value (just below £60).

[TurboRSR]

21 minutes ago, futureworks said:

So I've now had my first experience of having purchased post-Brexit, with a couple of items (small parts) which arrived here in the UK from Japan today. The purchase was through eBay, so they added 20% vat to the price I paid, not that the seller would know about this. My worry was that the seller would in no way reflect that VAT had been paid on their postage label or customs form (as they wouldn't know), and I wondered if I'd get stung for a charge this end. In the end, the item came straight through the postal system, and was delivered by our local postie today. The customs form clearly shows an 8000 yen value (just below £60).

On the last package that I bought from eBay the seller had ticked off "sample" and a lower value than actual value, luckily the package went straight through the customs without any additional charges.  
In Norway we have had this system since April last year, and the sellers are supposed to put on the VOEC (VAT on E-commerce) number onto the shipping label so that the customs can recognize that VAT has been paid. 

[nowinaminute]

Only thing is we have a trade deal with Japan so I'm not sure if they have to collect the 20% or not.

What I really want to see is a package from a country where no trade deal exists like China or America. The only ones I've had so far though have  banggood who use a UK relay so there would be no fees anyway.

[rich_f]

4 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

What I really want to see is a package from a country where no trade deal exists like China or America.

Yesterday I bought an item off ebay purportedly from Liverpool, UK (I'm also in the UK) but ebay still put 20% vat on it at the checkout. I noticed the seller's paypal details were Chinese after I logged in to pay. I was hoping to buy from a uk seller but clicked through without paying attention and by the time I noticed it was too late. I wouldn't have bought from that seller if I had known they weren't in the UK. Ebay should really stop this practice of putting a uk address for the item location when it isn't actually located there. 

Anyway, I inadvertently have something coming from China so I'll be able to answer your question re packages sent from there. I'll post an update when it arrives. 

[svenb]

44 minutes ago, rich_f said:

Yesterday I bought an item off ebay purportedly from Liverpool, UK (I'm also in the UK) but ebay still put 20% vat on it at the checkout. I noticed the seller's paypal details were Chinese after I logged in to pay. I was hoping to buy from a uk seller but clicked through without paying attention and by the time I noticed it was too late. I wouldn't have bought from that seller if I had known they weren't in the UK. Ebay should really stop this practice of putting a uk address for the item location when it isn't actually located there. 

Anyway, I inadvertently have something coming from China so I'll be able to answer your question re packages sent from there. I'll post an update when it arrives. 

You could cancel it! 

[Badcrumble]

@futureworks is there anything on the outside of the package to show that VAT has been paid? Just curious. You know the price was upped to cover VAT but how do customs know?

[rich_f]

34 minutes ago, svenb said:

You could cancel it! 

Meh, it was only £5 so the VAT was only £1. I thought I'll just let it go so I can see what happens when it arrives as it's my first post-brexit order from outside the UK.

I'll just be looking at the price at checkout much more closely from now on, regardless of where it says the item is being shipped from. 

[svenb]

26 minutes ago, rich_f said:

Meh, it was only £5 so the VAT was only £1. I thought I'll just let it go so I can see what happens when it arrives as it's my first post-brexit order from outside the UK.

I'll just be looking at the price at checkout much more closely from now on, regardless of where it says the item is being shipped from. 

Fair enough just really irritating when they mislead you ☹️

[futureworks]

1 hour ago, Badcrumble said:

@futureworks is there anything on the outside of the package to show that VAT has been paid? Just curious. You know the price was upped to cover VAT but how do customs know?

@Badcrumble, no not a thing, no reference to VAT at all that I can see.

[nowinaminute]

5 hours ago, rich_f said:

Yesterday I bought an item off ebay purportedly from Liverpool, UK (I'm also in the UK) but ebay still put 20% vat on it at the checkout. I noticed the seller's paypal details were Chinese after I logged in to pay. I was hoping to buy from a uk seller but clicked through without paying attention and by the time I noticed it was too late. I wouldn't have bought from that seller if I had known they weren't in the UK. Ebay should really stop this practice of putting a uk address for the item location when it isn't actually located there. 

Anyway, I inadvertently have something coming from China so I'll be able to answer your question re packages sent from there. I'll post an update when it arrives. 

I think the new rules apply to stock being held in the UK that originated from China. Maybe it's something to do with that? I know a lot of sellers used to do that to get around fees.

 

[nowinaminute]

I noticed today that Gearbest appear to be applying fixed postage rates to lower priced items. Even a £1 item has a £5.22 postage fee.

Banggood are charging postage on some items but its usually only a small fraction of the item price. They have been doing this since before Brexit anyway.

Aliexpress still charging 20% on behalf of sellers.

Ebay still taking 20% a lot of the time but some sellers appear to have registered with HMRC or at lest told ebay they have as on those items, the 20% is incorporated into the price.

[nowinaminute]

Today I've started seeing some postage prices on Banggood going a bit crazy. Postage has normally been free or just a token couple of £. Seems to vary from product to product. 



The EU priority line and similar methods is how they sneak stuff into EU countries before forwarding it on without any fees for the end user. I'm not sure how that would work now we have left the EU. Once they got the item in the EU they could just take advantage of free trade to send it to the UK customer with no additional fees. Would this still work the same way with our "free trade agreement" I wonder? There must be a reason for the huge jump whether it's temporary covid related issues or to do with Brexit itself

With how things are set up in the UK now, Banggood should be taking the £20 VAT on items under £135 themselves but I cannot see any reference to it on the website anywhere. I'm just now beginning to see inflated postage costs on some items but not all of them.

I've gotten several items from Banggood since the new year but they have all been small things. They just had normal custom declarations on but had clearly been sent to the UK based freight forwarding company One World as new labels had been put on top of the original ones and have One World as the return address.  Is One World a Chinese owned company? Is it the Chinese effectively sending stuff to themselves much like how they how they do in Europe for the larger items?  One thing I have noticed is that if you look at promotional material for One World, they often mention how they can help you save money on import costs.....I wonder how they might be achieving that?




I'm expecting some more stuff from China in the next few days that was purchased after January 1st so I will keep you updated. These particular items were from ebay and rather than ebay themselves charge me 20%, they happened to be items where it says "20% VAT included in price" suggesting that the seller had told ebay they were registered with the HRMC.

The fact that Ebay now takes the 20% on behalf of SOME sellers but not ones who claim they have self registered got me wondering again, how will anyone on the UK side know if the VAT has been paid? It's plausible if the seller does it themselves they might have some kind of reference they can put on the package but what if it's a sale where ebay charge it? Ebay never have the package pass through their hands so it's not like they can slap a code on the parcel?

Sorry for rambling on, just a complicated subject with a lot of variables so it gets my brain ticking over.

I should be able to report back in the next day or so with the aforementioned packages that come from China and for which according to ebay, the 20% has been included in the seller's price.