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Saito2

RC10 Classic question

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With the huge back catalog that Tamiya has at its disposal for potential re-release candidates, I imagine selecting the the right model for maximum profitability might be tricky (also considering the worldwide markets said re-release will see).  Associated Electrics on the other hand has a sure-fire winner, at least in the US market, the RC10 "Classic". As a recap, AE re-released the original RC10 as the RC10 Classic years back in limited numbers. They sold out which tells me the product was successful. To do so, many of the parts had to be re-drawn with modern methods and many of the parts were now made in overseas facilities for AE. In an interview, AE's Shawn Ireland was questioned about the RC10's possible return again. He alluded that one of the overseas factories went bankrupt and its contents got auctioned off. AE's molds were lost in the sell off including the RC10 classic ones. Still, why wouldn't they try again considering the RC market is not necessarily an easy one and the RC10 was a hit? Some factors to consider:

Vintage market: Is the vintage market still hot? I would certainly guess so. This might be a finite window too. We are all roughly the same age group and 10 years down the line, the RC vintage boom may taper off (just guessing here, who knows without proper market research). Why not strike while the iron is still hot?  Tamiya vintage production may have tapered off, but people in the States are paying crazy money for used RC10s and it was creeping up before the pandemic too. People are still anticipating an Optima Mid and begging for Losi to get into the vintage market by most accounts.

Profitability: One can assume that AE made profit from the RC10 Classic the first time and they had to start from square one. The molds may be lost, requiring more investment (again) but the drawings/files should still be available, so it wouldn't be a complete reboot.

Popularity: They sold out. They still get request for it It was probably their best selling car and AE had years of backlogged orders originally. I would think another run would be a safe bet.

I don't pretend to know all the factors. AE knows better than I. Perhaps there is profit to be had, but the margins are too low to consider it. Perhaps the Worlds Car situation that followed the Classic, scared them. The Worlds Car had a defective transmission (fixable) and sales were not as strong. Many of the Worlds Cars were sold on discount. Also, possibly the Worlds Car didn't simply have the pull that the Classic did. Who knows? The Classic was popular enough that AE even sold out of a "found" last batch that they sold for hundreds more than the original $250 asking price.

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To be honest, the RC10 re-release was a bit of a flop and AE actually struggled to sell all of the kits.

The Worlds kit was being practically given away by shops in the end. Ironic really, considering what they go for now.

Have a look at RC10talk.com. There is a dedicated section to the re-releases and it is absolutely dead. By the looks of things there have been about 10 posts there in the last 12 months. It's the vintage buggies that spark the passion of RC10 enthusiasts.

IMO there is zero chance of the RC10 coming back again in any form. And they probably think it was a waste of time bringing it back at all. I am certainly glad they did though. :)

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Yeah I got that from a rc shop when they had stocks of the classic and worlds car that they couldn't shift I was I there buying nitro fuel (I was racing a nitro buggy at the time) and I got talking to the shop owner and he said that it had been a bit of a flop and even worse for the worlds edition? At that time nobody was really interested in them🤷‍♂️ and I had a classic which I put on ebay because I was cutting my rc collection at the time and I got absolute peanuts for it if I can remember it was just over £130 including the steering servo and motor!

IMG_20171104_151048.jpg

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What @Wandy  and @moffman said. I bought a re-re Avante, two re re RC10 classic and two RC10 Worlds from the same shop. Paid more for the re-re Avante than the other four combined. So I'm not convinced the re-re's made them any money. Sadly. 

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1 minute ago, Robert5000 said:

What @Wandy  and @moffman said. I bought a re-re Avante, two re re RC10 classic and two RC10 Worlds from the same shop. Paid more for the re-re Avante than the other four combined. So I'm not convinced the re-re's made them any money. Sadly. 

Wow, sounds like you got an amazing deal on the RC10s. I paid £290 in total for my two Classics and £150 for the one Worlds kit and I thought that was sweet, but it sounds like you did even better. B)

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12 minutes ago, moffman said:

Yeah I got that from a rc shop when they had stocks of the classic and worlds car that they couldn't shift I was I there buying nitro fuel (I was racing a nitro buggy at the time) and I got talking to the shop owner and he said that it had been a bit of a flop and even worse for the worlds edition? At that time nobody was really interested in them🤷‍♂️ and I had a classic which I put on ebay because I was cutting my rc collection at the time and I got absolute peanuts for it if I can remember it was just over £130 including the steering servo and motor!

IMG_20171104_151048.jpg

Yep. Again though, the Classic kits are now fetching big money on ebay.

As soon as a vintage kit goes out of production and is hard to find, the appeal goes up. :rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, Wandy said:

Wow, sounds like you got an amazing deal on the RC10s. I paid £290 in total for my two Classics and £150 for the one Worlds kit and I thought that was sweet, but it sounds like you did even better. B)

Yeah I paid the same, kept them for a few years nib. I’d already restored two RC10 team versions so didn’t see me building them for a long time. Sold both of them for ca £90 profit each, which given limited appeal in UK after most interested people got one at launch was a decent sale IMO. With silly eBay pricing for most rc cars/buggies currently I dare say they’d fetch more currently, but you’d perhaps have to wait longer for a buyer.

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I do agree the RC10 classic was a hit, but not so much on the RC10 worlds. I remember buying a worlds kit for something silly like $125 shipped. Everyone wanted the classic kit, but not the kit with all the hop ups in the box, go figure. I do believe times have changed, and any re-release by AE would be successful. But AE in all honesty, will probably never offer any Re-re's again, its just not there thing to do. There are ton's of RC10's on eBay at any given point in time, so actually supply was never an issue. Its not like a Tamiya Falcon that demands a high price for a good runner since none can be found. The Original RC10 is built like a tank, and rarely breaks anything.

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12 minutes ago, Wandy said:

Wow, sounds like you got an amazing deal on the RC10s. I paid £290 in total for my two Classics and £150 for the one Worlds kit and I thought that was sweet, but it sounds like you did even better. B)

It was, but it was also an expensive Avante at around £550, but still. This was in 2016, so the 2011 re re was getting scarce and neither of the RC10's seemed to go anywhere. 

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I just think that AE and their cars are a totally different animal to Tamiya. AE cars have a very limited target customer base of vintage enthusiasts compared to Tamiya and since the cars from back in the day were never really classed as toys, there is very limited nostalgia for them outside of people who raced them back in the day. I remember Roger Curtis, designer of the RC10, being quoted in 2013 that he couldn't undertstand why the kit was being re-released. So if the creator isn't particularly enthusiastic about it then its maybe not that much of a surprise that customers weren't either.

I think the RC10 re-release was heavily driven by Thunder Tiger, who maybe looked at Tamiya and thought they could replicate that kind of re-release success. But if AE weren't owned by Thunder Tiger the re-release would never have happened IMO.

 

 

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Just now, Robert5000 said:

It was, but it was also an expensive Avante at around £550, but still. This was in 2016, so the 2011 re re was getting scarce and neither of the RC10's seemed to go anywhere. 

Still great prices for the RC10s though. :)

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14 minutes ago, Percymon said:

Yeah I paid the same, kept them for a few years nib. I’d already restored two RC10 team versions so didn’t see me building them for a long time. Sold both of them for ca £90 profit each, which given limited appeal in UK after most interested people got one at launch was a decent sale IMO. With silly eBay pricing for most rc cars/buggies currently I dare say they’d fetch more currently, but you’d perhaps have to wait longer for a buyer.

Completed ebay listings show the kits fetching approximately £600. :ph34r:

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7 minutes ago, Wandy said:

Completed ebay listings show the kits fetching approximately £600. :ph34r:

Freakonomics! 

In light of that one could be tempted to think they might be able to make bank, but if the molds are lost that places the break even goal post even further away. And I guess their first re-re run didn't do anything to get them hooked on the concept. 

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6 minutes ago, Robert5000 said:

Freakonomics! 

In light of that one could be tempted to think they might be able to make bank, but if the molds are lost that places the break even goal post even further away. And I guess their first re-re run didn't do anything to get them hooked on the concept. 

Nah. Like I mentioned earlier, it's just supply and demand and that fact that stuff that is unobtainable always becomes more attractive. If AE did another run of the RC10 the sales would be very, very poor IMO.

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2 minutes ago, Wandy said:

Nah. Like I mentioned earlier, it's just supply and demand and that fact that stuff that is unobtainable always becomes more attractive. If AE did another run of the RC10 the sales would be very, very poor IMO.

I suspect you're 100 % correct. The fact that they haven''t done another run sort of proves your point :) I mean, even the Vajra will probably be expensive one day. 

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1 minute ago, Robert5000 said:

............even the Vajra will probably be expensive one day. 

Let's not get carried away. :P

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I bought both the Classic and the Worlds right when they came out. I didn't get any deals. Regardless, they are probably near the top of my list favorite cars. They will probably go on display in the game room. Also, I agree that once they became scarce, they suddenly became the thing that everyone wanted. :D 

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I so regret not buying a rc10 worlds for $125 from amain 2 yrs ago after the coupon. I was scared away by gearbox complaints

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I enjoyed my RC10 Classic build, but there was definitely something... off... about the experience. I can't quite put my finger on what it was, but the "texture" of it (for lack of a better word) is just all wrong. I don't know if it's a different formula of nylon, or the CAD-created molds are too crisp and square, or what, but it feels more like an idealized copy of an RC10 than the real thing. It's almost an "uncanny valley" sort of vibe. (I get a tiny bit of that feeling from the re-re Turbo Optima too, but not as much.)

I'm wondering if others got a similar "not-quite-right" vibe off it, and that's why the initial demand and excitement was high, but interest has dwindled. The high price of remaining NIB kits is, I'm sure, mostly a case of FOMO. If they did announce another run, that bubble would pop and those kits would drop back to near-list-price.

I am surprised to hear that it languished on shelves in other parts of the world; I grabbed the last one of four at my LHS, and someone asked if they had any more in stock while I was at the register checking out.

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I hope that they decide to bring it back for another run since I really want an OG RC10, but I'm not holding my breath. RC10 prices on ebay have been pretty high to me, even for absolutely trashed examples. Last time I looked, it would be cheaper to get a 10T and convert it over to buggy spec. 

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Perhaps I'm "too close to the source" being in the US. The Classic seemed pretty popular over here. I guess the opposite is true of Schumacher here (at least BITD for sure). I don't recall any hobby shops carrying Schumacher cars and the spares were equally non-existent. Virtually everyone I was familiar with ran Optima Mids in 4wd classes. That doesn't mean Schumachers weren't widely available, popular and well-supported in other parts of the world.   

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Slightly off topic but if, as expected, lockdowns continue for another year would it help support Tamiyas position as a backyard basher manufacturer rather than the more race orientated manufacturer's? 

I wonder if, with UK lockdowns closing most racing down, will people be buying as many Schumacher or Associated buggies and parts etc? Those manufacturers seem to concentrate on the racing community whereas Tamiya targets backyard bashing. I hope they all survive but I wonder how much a mostly racing focused product lineup is hurting Schumacher and Associated right now?

In a lockdown such as here in the UK where we are confined to home and all public or communal recreation and events are cancelled, are people going to buy new race buggies? I even read that the BRCA are actually keeping rule and homologation as per 2019/20 because people invested in new tech to suit rule changes but never got a chance to use them due to lockdowns. 

Tamiya with its extensive lineup of basic slow buggies ideal for small back gardens, crawlers and re-re cars has a very good range suitable for lockdown building and garden use whereas Schumacher for example have stopped producing the re-re CATs and is only now selling race spec cars - I wonder if this will cause them issues if this year's racing is also cancelled? Having a broader product range covering less specialist market is surely an advantage for Tamiya in these times?

True, I bought one at Xmas just to try a truly modern buggy and I love the Cougar but they are pricey and not so good value for backyard bashing. I can't imagine too many people buying one for bashing only.

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34 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

Perhaps I'm "too close to the source" being in the US. The Classic seemed pretty popular over here. I guess the opposite is true of Schumacher here (at least BITD for sure). I don't recall any hobby shops carrying Schumacher cars and the spares were equally non-existent. Virtually everyone I was familiar with ran Optima Mids in 4wd classes. That doesn't mean Schumachers weren't widely available, popular and well-supported in other parts of the world.   

It seemed like there was a lot of interest in the Classic at fist, but then it fizzled pretty quickly. I wonder if the quality problems with the Worlds re-re maybe tarnished some of the sparkle of it.

Back in the day, you're right; it was all RC10s and a few Ultimas (and later JRX2s) in the "serious" racing classes. And everybody in Novice (where I was) wanted an RC10, but we ran all kinds of cars there; I raced a Blackfoot or a Falcon, depending on which one wasn't broken that week... 4WD had more variety; I remember Optimas and Mids, as well as Boomerangs and Thundershots, a couple  and at least one Marui Ninja. (Brave soul!)

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1 hour ago, mud4fun said:

Those manufacturers seem to concentrate on the racing community whereas Tamiya targets backyard bashing. I hope they all survive but I wonder how much a mostly racing focused product lineup is hurting Schumacher and Associated right now?

I can't speak for Schumacher, but Associated is backed by Thunder Tiger which markets other types of vehicles outside of competition variants. Associated also has trail trucks under their Element banner and the DR10 drag car so I think they are diversified enough. The biggest issue is lack of stock. When the pandemic hit, I imagine companies slowed down production orders because there was no idea what the pandemic would do to the markets. As it turned out, everybody being home meant sales actually went through the roof. Now its a game of catch up.

I don't know if Tamiyas are selling wildly in the States now or if its problems with Tamiya meeting demand. Typically, Tamiyas do not sell prominently in local hobby shops. At best, they keep a few in stock for novelty and focus on Traxxas, Arrma, Axial, etc. Traxxas is actually out of stock for once so things are moving.

2 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Back in the day, you're right; it was all RC10s and a few Ultimas (and later JRX2s) in the "serious" racing classes. And everybody in Novice (where I was) wanted an RC10, but we ran all kinds of cars there; I raced a Blackfoot or a Falcon, depending on which one wasn't broken that week... 4WD had more variety; I remember Optimas and Mids, as well as Boomerangs and Thundershots, a couple  and at least one Marui Ninja. (Brave soul!)

A Marui on the track! Man, I miss those days filled with variety.

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Yeah, @Saito2From what I can see from Schumacher's website, their product lineup is all race orientated stuff. They seem to have discontinued the re-re CATs. This must surely make them vulnerable if lockdowns continue for another year and racing is cancelled.

I hear what you say regarding Associated but most of their lineup appears to be performance orientated other than some cheap RTR's. Looking on modelsport there is no cheap re-re or kit built buggy? Only race spec stuff that is expensive. I can't see that selling that well during lockdowns? Regardless of whether parent company is diverse, if a single child company is struggling the parent may let them go? 

It is surely telling that the vast bulk of Tamiya cheap buggies are sold out whereas Modelsport has good stock of all the race spec expensive stuff?

Back on topic, I actually threw an old RC10 in the bin about 25 years ago as I didn't think it was worth anything.... Oh how wrong I was..:o (they were only selling for £20-30 on eBay at the time, would have cost more to package and post it than I'd make from selling it)

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