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Juhunio

Juhunio's Super Duper Astute. Er.

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On 1/7/2015 at 11:34 PM, Thommo said:

I've also used a longer screw in the front of each rear arm mount, enough to fit a flat M3 nut with a bit of threadlock for extra security.  Only a longer screw is used at the rear of each mount to clear the outdrives once the gearbox is fitted.

 

Great mods and good luck with the rest of the build.  RE :  Blitzer rear arm mounts, I'm pretty sure the rear screw for each one can only be a screw into the plastic (no lock nut) to give clearance for the gearbox out-drives when they are fitted.  You don't want the screw protruding either for the same reason.  I hope this is helpful !

Edited by Thommo
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3 hours ago, Thommo said:

 

Great mods and good luck with the rest of the build.  RE :  Blitzer rear arm mounts, I'm pretty sure the rear screw for each one can only be a screw into the plastic (no lock nut) to give clearance for the gearbox out-drives when they are fitted.  You don't want the screw protruding either for the same reason.  I hope this is helpful !

Thanks @Thommo that makes perfect sense. I noticed that the threaded screws were a very tight fit into the arm mount material anyway so in hindsight there doesn't seem to be a need for a lock nut at all, it's overkill. If I had any common sense I would have worked that out at the time :rolleyes:

Looks like the front screw is ok with a lock nut but like you say the rear one just needs to thread into the plastic to avoid any clearance issues with the out-drives

Cheers! 

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12 weeks! That is such a pain. I had a similar wait when builidng mine, the Dyna Storm front tower from Fibrelyte took about 4 months to get here because of covid. I ended up building it stock to start as I was in lockdown so needed something to do (nothing about me being impatient).

Can you use a screw extractor on those? Its possibly too hard being sheared off completely and so small, but the gearbox can't get anymore broken right? What caused that, are those screws quite soft or something?

If you're stuck on gearing switch to 48p spur and pinion. Associated B4 work, or TRF201. Just buy matching slipper pads too fit the new spur. Much easier than trying to get .5 mod.

I like your choice of motor, they should be well matched to the chassis.

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18 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Can you use a screw extractor on those? Its possibly too hard being sheared off completely and so small, but the gearbox can't get anymore broken right? What caused that, are those screws quite soft or something?

Unfortunately they're sheared off completely flush, there is nothing to grip. I think the screws are ok, the threaded ones went into the Blitzer rear arm holders no bother which if anything is higher torque than these tappers in the gearbox. I'm pretty sure the issue was user error, I guess the holes are pre-drilled to accept a 10mm screw so when you try and bust a 12mm tapping thread in there those last 2mm were a battle between hard un-drilled plastic and over-torqued screws. The plastic won. Twice.

18 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

If you're stuck on gearing switch to 48p spur and pinion. Associated B4 work, or TRF201. Just buy matching slipper pads too fit the new spur. Much easier than trying to get .5 mod.

I kind of wanted to keep it 05 as Tamiya intended, but the gearing is very tight for the motors

I've seen RC Mart sell TRF201 spurs (77/79), pinions and slipper pads (54027), so would that lot do the job or would I need anything else?

And presumably changing the spur/pinion pitch doesn't change the buggy's FDR calculation, ie it's still (Spur T / Pinion T) x 2.59? 

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9 hours ago, Juhunio said:

I kind of wanted to keep it 05 as Tamiya intended, but the gearing is very tight for the motors

I've seen RC Mart sell TRF201 spurs (77/79), pinions and slipper pads (54027), so would that lot do the job or would I need anything else?

And presumably changing the spur/pinion pitch doesn't change the buggy's FDR calculation, ie it's still (Spur T / Pinion T) x 2.59? 

Keeping it .5mod looked impossible to me, i couldn't find any pinions anywhere!

No chnage to the FDR calculation if you change spur and pinion.

Thats all you need, the spur and matching slipper pads and pinions. I think i had to ream the hole in the spur slightly larger to fit on, but otherwise its a straight swap.

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1 hour ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Keeping it .5mod looked impossible to me, i couldn't find any pinions anywhere!

No chnage to the FDR calculation if you change spur and pinion.

Thats all you need, the spur and matching slipper pads and pinions. I think i had to ream the hole in the spur slightly larger to fit on, but otherwise its a straight swap.

Cool, thanks. If I do change I’ll probably go the TRF201 route, as the Associated spurs seem quite easy to get hold of but I can’t find the B4 slipper pads anywhere 

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On 1/22/2021 at 11:47 AM, Juhunio said:

Hi Matthias, hope all is good with you

Yes, the bearings are metal shielded. I got them from an ebay seller, here is a link to the ebay UK store. Shipping is from Hong Kong so it's an international seller that hopefully you can find on your local ebay store too!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MR115ZZ-5x11x3-4-5mm-Miniature-Deep-Groove-Ball-Bearing-Double-Shielded-Or-Open/222980871017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

His shipping to the UK was very cheap, so hope the same goes for you. It was quite a long lead time as I remember, but pretty low cost if you're happy to be patient

Cheers, Matt

Hey Matt,

my order of these ball bearings already showed up, uppercool, and they seem good quality! Thank you so much for the link,

Kind regards,

Matthias 

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On 2/6/2021 at 3:19 PM, ruebiracer said:

Hey Matt,

my order of these ball bearings already showed up, uppercool, and they seem good quality! Thank you so much for the link,

Kind regards,

Matthias 

No worries, looking forward to seeing what you do with them :)

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So, 8 weeks later.....

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First step to correcting my mistake was to dismantle the entire gearbox. This led to one more casualty, the 4mm e-clip holding the slipper shaft in place 

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So my game of Super Astute 'Snakes and Ladders' sees me sliding back from Step 17 to Step 12, with a pile o' bits to play with

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Found a couple of spare hours this morning to spend some quality time on the Super Astute

With the new A Parts tree in hand I was able to rebuild the gearbox with the proper length screws :rolleyes:

But while I was at it, I also decided to look into the switch from 05 mod to 48p as recommended by @Jonathon Gillham and others

I started off with some Team Associated Slipper Pads and an 87T B4 spur. I bought RW Racing 48p pinions ranging from 18T-23T to try out different ratios but also different sizings, to see what would fit the SA and particularly fit under the TTC System cover. The 22T pinion combined with the 87T spur create an FDR of 10.24, which is right in the middle of the range for both of my possible motor options

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The spur gear hole needed a tiny bit of reaming to fit over the SA slipper shaft, but other than that it all went together really easily

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But while it did fit under the TTC cover, it was very much 'only just', and I couldn't be 100% sure the spur wasn't rubbing on the cover, or might do

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A smaller spur would provide that bit more clearance, but I hadn't managed to get hold of a smaller TA spur to try it. I had, however, also grabbed a couple of Tamiya TRF201 spurs and some DB01 slipper pads from RC Mart, so gave them a go instead. They're only 77T and 79T, so would need a smaller pinion. The 79/20 combo create an FDR of 10.23, so spot on

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Again the spur gear hole needed a tiny bit of reaming to fit over the slipper shaft, but once on it all fitted together easily. I did a test fit with the motor and the TTC cover to be sure the sizes worked for the motor mount positions and cover, and it's all good. There's actually loads of flexibility, and the pinion will move in a little tighter on the final fitting

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I bought all the options because I couldn't be sure that the new spur/pinion combo wouldn't be too big, or too small, for the Super Astute motor mount positions or TTC cover.

In the end, the 87T spur was tight, possibly OK, probably too big. The 79T spur fits nicely, not sure whether the 77T might be too small. I assume 84T would fit nicely, and TA make one of those (AE9653) but they seem to be out of stock everywhere. RW Racing 48p pinions come in just about every size, so the flexibility is pretty much limitless. 

So, 8 weeks after my amateur-hour mistake, the gearbox rebuild is complete!

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I also added 0.3mm of shims between the H3 part and the 4mm e-clip on the back of the slipper shaft to take the slop out whilst still letting it all spin freely

And attached it with all the correct length screws this time :D

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Two big steps forward today, first building and attaching the rear damper mounts. The circular nuts were a perfect fit into the recesses of the damper stay in place of the press nuts

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Very satisfying how that bit of sponge sheet under the chassis part tucks in with the other pieces added around the battery holders earlier in the build :)

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Then on to the rear uprights and drive shafts, which meant time for the Top Force Universals mod

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The 5x11x3 bearings on the left are 1mm thinner than the standard 1150s, and sit inside the rear uprights to create an extra 1mm of space for the TF universals. A rubber shielded 1150 sits in the outer rim of the upright

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The threaded shafts in the upper arms were replaced with hardened turnbuckles and 5mm low friction adjusters

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The TF universal axles are for a standard pin/hex hub fitting, as opposed to the direct fit 'teeth and spline' axles and hubs that come with the kit

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The kit hubs are 6mm, which meant I now had a use for a random pair of red 6mm clamp hubs that came attached to a 934 RSR shelf queen I bought, stripped and rebuilt

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A couple of observations / concerns:

1. The method of attaching the rear uprights to the arms is a bit weird, with two thick plastic spacers either side of the upright. They're a pretty tight fit, both between the upright and the arm and around the suspension shaft it all sits on. You wouldn't say the upright moves freely around the shaft when it's all in place. Now, I like a shim as much as anyone, but this does seem a bit tight

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2. The whole thing feels a bit tight; the arms don't droop back down to a low resting position under gravity. If I lift them, they rest in that upright position. On previous buggies that doesn't happen, the arms drop naturally to their lowest possible rest point. 

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It feels like removing the red o-ring from the outdrive would help, but would that be a bad move? 

EDIT: I've removed the o-rings and everything moves very freely and as you might expect. So I need a softer alternative to the o-ring...I've tried a urethane bushing and it's too thick / strong and creates the same issue as the o-ring 

If anyone reads this who has experienced this or a similar issue, or done the TF Universal mod without issue and fancies chipping in, feel free!

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I think I found a solution to issue #2 above; I trimmed the adhesive backing from a strip of sponge sheet, the light grey one that is very spongey, then cut two small squares, one for each outdrive

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It seems to do the trick of providing a bit of buffer between the outdrive and drive shaft, but have enough give to allow the arms to drop freely

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We'll see if it works out when it's running :unsure:

It would be great to get comment from someone who has done the mod before...paging @Thommo :lol:

 

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44 minutes ago, Juhunio said:

 

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Nice build but I would seriously change those red hex to blue. :lol:

If only you lived nearby, I'd toss you a set for free. :)

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1 hour ago, Nicadraus said:

Nice build but I would seriously change those red hex to blue. :lol:

If only you lived nearby, I'd toss you a set for free. :)

Thanks! Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you, the red do look a bit weird, although they will be pretty much hidden once the wheels are on

The main reason for using them is they are a pair, and it's a 2WD buggy. Using anything else would mean breaking a set of 4 :(

But I have got a set of silver 6mm hubs which I could use if I REALLY can't live with the red 

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Started the electronics install today, beginning with the motor

I've initially gone for the Tamiya 10.5T Brushless Motor. I'm not sure it's gonna work though, due to the ESC. The TBLE-02S needs the optional fan attached for the 10.5T motor, and a quick line-up with the body posts looks to me like the ESC+fan is going to be too tall to fit comfortably under the shell

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If it is too tight I'll swap it for the SS BZ motor and a Hobbywing 1060 ESC, just like I did on my DF03 which also didn't have room for brushless technology and all its necessary fans and extra cables

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On 4/3/2021 at 5:59 PM, Juhunio said:

The main reason for using them is they are a pair, and it's a 2WD buggy. Using anything else would mean breaking a set of 4 :(

Thats not bad at all, keep them for your next built : )

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Didn´t know about the TopForce universal mod! So it´s only 1mm missing to be able to mount a modern CVD to the Super Astute / Astute / Dyna Storm?

Great solution! :wub:

And congrats to the finished gear box, I felt with you after the screw strip. Sometimes it just has to happen. Guess everyone had a similar experience in RC life.:lol:

Can´t wait to see the final result. Regarding the ESC: Maybe you can fit the fan separetely before the ESC, so it blows the hot air out of the back of the car. Could work with the height, then.

Greets,

Matthias

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4 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

Didn´t know about the TopForce universal mod! So it´s only 1mm missing to be able to mount a modern CVD to the Super Astute / Astute / Dyna Storm?

Great solution! :wub:

I think they dont work on the Dyna Storm as it is, theymight be too long and will be pressed inside the outdrice cups. With longer arms (SAstute) it might work nicely. Someone need to find out. :lol:

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On 4/3/2021 at 9:16 PM, Juhunio said:

I think I found a solution to issue #2 above; I trimmed the adhesive backing from a strip of sponge sheet, the light grey one that is very spongey, then cut two small squares, one for each outdrive.

We'll see if it works out when it's running :unsure:

It would be great to get comment from someone who has done the mod before...paging @Thommo :lol:

 

 

Very impressive stuff and great to see the Top Force universals mod, I'm really pleased you're trying it out.  On that front there are no issues to date for me so far.  I do have the pink neoprene bushes in mine but my SA had been running previously with them and the stock drive shafts.  I guess the pink bushes were already squished from use and there was no binding.  Neutral rear camber helps which yours does look to be spot on. 

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Regarding the drive shaft mod, I remembered @kontemax Astute guide bible this morning:

"TIP#6: You can “dig” the inner bearing housing with a simple tool like a step drill bit* (NOTE#5). This tool must be 11 mm in diameter. You must turn it with your hands only or you will destroy the piece. By digging 2 mm of space between the rear ball bearings you can mount modern CVD on Super Astute rear hubs. I did it on my Dyna Storm."

featured here: https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=123146

He modified his Dyna Storm by drilling out 2 mm in the rear hubs of Dyna/Super Astute, to make modern CVD´s fit in his Dyna. So by @Juhunio´s testing with a 3mm 1150 bearing on the inside, 1mm smaller inside the hub seems sufficient to get the outdrive working in the hub, but maybe another 1mm could be needed for clearance, as @Collin suspects.;)

Seems I have to test it on my old Dyna, I must have a Top Force CVD lying somewhere...;)

The knowledge is all on TC, you just have to dig it out...:lol:

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18 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

Didn´t know about the TopForce universal mod! So it´s only 1mm missing to be able to mount a modern CVD to the Super Astute / Astute / Dyna Storm?

Great solution! :wub:

That seems to be the case. It's not my original thinking, @Thommo wrote about it on one of the older SA threads on here, I'm just copying :D

18 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

And congrats to the finished gear box, I felt with you after the screw strip. Sometimes it just has to happen. Guess everyone had a similar experience in RC life.:lol:

Yup, just one of them things where you have to just shake your head, say some badwords, then take a deep breath and order a new part :lol:

18 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

Can´t wait to see the final result. Regarding the ESC: Maybe you can fit the fan separetely before the ESC, so it blows the hot air out of the back of the car. Could work with the height, then.

Thanks, that's a good shout. I hadn't thought about separating them to have the fan blow air over the ESC. I guess it would work, as long as the fan is ok to be mounted vertically rather than horizontally?

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9 hours ago, Thommo said:

Very impressive stuff and great to see the Top Force universals mod, I'm really pleased you're trying it out.  On that front there are no issues to date for me so far.  I do have the pink neoprene bushes in mine but my SA had been running previously with them and the stock drive shafts.  I guess the pink bushes were already squished from use and there was no binding.  Neutral rear camber helps which yours does look to be spot on. 

Thanks for the feedback :) And great to hear the TF Universal mod has been working for you without issue. I'm not convinced the loose-cell sponge I've used will be robust enough so I'll keep experimenting with thinner bits of urethane bushing 

Cheers!

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1 hour ago, ruebiracer said:

Regarding the drive shaft mod, I remembered @kontemax Astute guide bible this morning:

Thanks for sharing that, it's an awesome thread. I've learned loads from @kontemax's DF03 and Boomerang experiences but never came across his Astute thread. Cheers!

The 3mm bearing seems to do the trick as long as you replace the o-ring in the outdrive with something softer (sponge sheet) or more 'worn-in' (pre-used urethane bushing). Drilling out a bit of the upright would logically create a bit more clearance to further reduce the o-ring binding...I'm gonna see if I can find a spare set of uprights somewhere and give it a go, but finding SA parts is hard!

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