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ThunderDragonCy

Good chassis for rally racing

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Morning all. It's been a while! Been a bit off rc this winter after the tiering system here in the uk finally killed club racing a couple of months ago. Sometimes we need a break i guess? 

Anyway, on Facebook there's a group promoting a 10th touring car scale rally championship, and it looks to have some support. Got me thinking what a good rally chassis would be for racing, not scale looks. Obviously the default option is XV01, but in a race environment wouldn't mid motor be better? Problem with anything touring car based for tamiya using modern suspension arms is a lack of articulation particularly at the front. And 4wd race buggies have their motor quite in the middle, not towards the rear as with most on road cars. So what do we think? Is there some franken-chassis we can come up with that will work? XV01 suspension bits on a regular tc chassis maybe? Or something adapted from the TRF buggies? Belt or shaft? Let's get some ideas going! 

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What’s the group name? I don’t do facebook, but I’m interested in that area, so it’d be great to read what people are up to.

Are mid motors preferred for neutral handling and stability in jumps? Hopefully the rally jumps are more scale, so the nose heavy aspect of the XV01 shouldn’t be so troublesome? 

Looking at my TB05, it’s has a nice mid motor option, which is fairly inboard vs the TA07 hanging out. However the frame chassis means it’s full of holes, which might not be ideal.

From the Postal racing, in amateur hands the TT02S isn’t far behind the TB05, so I’d imagine it’s fairly capable in a rally setting with its ride height settings. Add that to the bathtub chassis, maybe that’s a good cheaper starting point?

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The XV01 has got to be the modern de-facto standard for rallying from Tamiya right now.  The front motor design means it pivots around its front axle and slides the rear just like a proper rally car.

That said, I've never had the chance to race in a rally championship and don't really know what's competitive.  A few years ago a local touring club started a rally offshoot on some farmland, using gravel and old tarmac/concrete sections.  There was everything from modded TT01s and TT02s, a shortened TL01 with a Ford Anglia body, DF03s and TB01s.  Not sure anyone ran an XV01 as it was a budget racing series.  I wouldn't want to run any modern touring chassis with an exposed belt, and if you want to run a buggy chassis you will probably have to modify it to touring width and wheelbase, so may well lose any of the travel you were hoping to get up front. (unless the club will be running that wide 1:8 rallycross format over 1:10 buggy chassis).  Also with 1.9" wheels you won't have a huge amount of suspension movement before the chassis bottoms out regardless.

What about your RWD TRF RS200?  Seems like the perfect place to give that a try.

What terrain are you racing on?  I know some clubs race rally on 1:10 buggy tracks but that seems daft to me, the cars are too small and the jumps are too big.  I had two attempts at rallying my TB01 on A1's buggy track before I gave it up as a bad idea.

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the  facebook group is RC Rally GB

I'd still go with an XV01 for 'proper' rallying. We tried indoor rally on carpet with jumps, and tt02 tt01 etc were fine, but it wasn't bumpy.

 

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6 minutes ago, 78Triumph said:

XV-01.  Period.  :)

I'll wager my 'Rally' car will beat your XV01? :lol: 

Hehe, only kidding, would need a fair stretching of the rules......

spacer.png

 

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@ThunderDragonCy I didn't believe in the XV-01 before. I thought it was all "hype". But the myth have been busted when I got one.

I can say that it's one of Tamiya's successful and properly engineered chassis' ever made. Of course like any other chassis, it will need upgrades for improvement but out of the box, it's already a great runner on and off road. It's a legend!

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Maybe something like a ta-03, you can still get the ta-03rs new and they are not expensive, you can convert it to front motor if you can find the parts. I have both the ta-03f and a ta-03 rs, I bash them both on very rought tarmac with a lot of pebbles, never had a problem with them, the whole driveline is sealed only the beld and pulleys are exposed, you can increase the rideheight on them and they are simple and easy to work on, I have owned a xv-01, the ta-03 chassis comes close  in terms of handling and I like the ta-03 cars more.

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Thanks for the thoughts fellas. Still seems like xv01 might be the answer, although a long damper TB05 mid could be interesting. 

I am not sure what surfaces will be. It's all quite nascent, but i suspect astro will feature if clubs are involved. If they do anything at Broxtowe (my club) it could get pretty rallycross as the asphalt trqck is next to the astro. 

@Mad Ax If they do anything local i will probably toddle along with the RR03, but just as in the real world, 4wd will blow away 2wd on any kind of loose surface. 

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Astro and asphalt - are those high grip, so making it more like touring cars with jumps/bumps? I could imagine like that the XV01 won’t excel, whereas a TB05 might well excel. Nothing to clog it up, and a more modern touring car design. Not much opportunity to swing the back end around?

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Just get the xv01 and pickup a Embie racing chassis for it, that allows rear battery mounting, that offsets the front weight bias quite nicely. 
 

most of the other touring cars people use they fit custom chassis anyway. 

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12 hours ago, jupitertwo said:

Astro and asphalt - are those high grip, so making it more like touring cars with jumps/bumps? I could imagine like that the XV01 won’t excel, whereas a TB05 might well excel. Nothing to clog it up, and a more modern touring car design. Not much opportunity to swing the back end around?

If you own an FF chassis, you'd understand why the XV-01's behavior is good for both on and off road. Soil/mud, sand, gravel, asphalt, concrete, snow, you name it. The XV-01 will run through and drive-able. 

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52 minutes ago, Juls1 said:

Just get the xv01 and pickup a Embie racing chassis for it, that allows rear battery mounting, that offsets the front weight bias quite nicely. 
 

most of the other touring cars people use they fit custom chassis anyway. 

Never seen the embie racing kit before, but it looks perfect! I can see a rear transverse or longitudinal shorty setup being really nicely balanced. 

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6 hours ago, Nicadraus said:

If you own an FF chassis, you'd understand why the XV-01's behavior is good for both on and off road. Soil/mud, sand, gravel, asphalt, concrete, snow, you name it. The XV-01 will run through and drive-able. 

My point was that it sounded like the tracks were basically touring car tracks with the odd bump, so might suit more regular touring cars better? I like my XV01s a lot, they’re my go to chassis. However I also never see XV01s talked about in regular touring car situations, so if this racing is in reality just touring cars with scale bodies...

I’m trying to learn and understand what it is happening when I’m driving, so it’d be great if you could expand on the XV01 behaviour? I’m not really part of the FF01 club, so it’d be great to learn from your experience?

Doing some Postal racing this afternoon, I ran my TB05 with rally blocks in wet conditions - asphalt with light snow coming down but not settling. A hoot, but in 15 minutes of running it picked up a fair amount of dirt

31193AF2-47E2-40C2-AEB1-DDAD44594EDC.jpg

So doing it on something with loose dirt, it could be a nightmare. Whereas the standard XV01 will be unaffected, save for the usual pebble issues in the steering?

 

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2 hours ago, jupitertwo said:

My point was that it sounded like the tracks were basically touring car tracks with the odd bump, so might suit more regular touring cars better? I like my XV01s a lot, they’re my go to chassis. However I also never see XV01s talked about in regular touring car situations, so if this racing is in reality just touring cars with scale bodies..

I actually have no idea what the tracks would be. The guy on facebook just did a survey and it looked like their might be support for some races. There was no mention of what surfaces, i just gave the example of my particular club. I agree totally with what you say if the surface has good grip. I guess we need to wait to hear more from the fb group. 

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22 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

but just as in the real world, 4wd will blow away 2wd on any kind of loose surface. 

er, I hate to tell you this but my 2WD Cougar just set the fastest lap and got the best lap count on round 7 postal racing today beating my 4WD Thundershot and 4WD Avante2001, beating middle mudlets 4WD Egress and beating youngest mudlets 4WD Vanquish....... that was on saturated wet/frosty muddy grass..... you were saying??? :D;)

edit: I also have a real world example - back in the 1980's I witnessed a Citroen 2CV actually get a higher placing than several 4WD Land Rovers in an AWDC off road Safari race/event at Long Valley..... admittedly the 2CV beat them purely in managing to actually finish a lap but still...... :)

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Is there a hidden Rally thread out there?

 

It would be awesometo have a thread or subforums (Onroad, F1/Pancars, Buggys/Stadium, Rally Cars, Monstertruck, etc ...) that will be covering Rally Cars. The only Subforum that we have are for Monstertrucks & Wheelie Rigs ANd Scale Amour & Big Rigs.

 

I´m soon owning 5 Rally Cars:

TL-01 - Lancia Delta Integrale

TL-01 - Toyota Celica GT 4

M 05Ra - Renault 5 Turbo (with wider rear track, but with FWD -yuck...)

TA-02s - Lancia 037

TT-02 - Audi Quattro A2 (coming soon)

 

 

What i`ve read all cars other than a XV01 are a Joke in tems of rallying :D

What are your thoughts on the TL-01s, M-05Ras, TA02Ss and TT-02s?

I think that the TL-01 is quite capable for off roading, the only donwnside is that little stones getting into the Chassis and between Chassis and the Battery....
I´ve not quite tested the TA-02s and the M 05Ra

I´ve never drove a TT02, because i thought the Chassis is rubbish and isnt usable `for anything near off the road. I always thought the TA-02s will be a better offroader by 10 Times.

 

I never will be the owner of an XV01, even knowing that is the perfect Rallychassis. But on the other Hand, i never will be racing on a Rallytrack, i just use the Cars on Tarmac and short Grass, gravel and similar surfaces for bashing or "Rallycross" Tracks.

 

 

delta.thumb.jpg.2155ec43988aaf6c590b5e2889f5f46d.jpg

 

Now the wheels are a little bit wide because i putted in wider hexes and maybe will putting in hexes that are just 1mm wider on each wheel (that would be the maximum)

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2 hours ago, whahooo said:

What are your thoughts on the TL-01s, M-05Ras, TA02Ss and TT-02s?

TL-01 was my first rally car, not bad, but it has too short front arms, so front geometry is weird once ride height goes up. It's better with long span suspension. Exposed motor isn't ideal either. Knowing its drawbacks, I built my variant of "TL02", based on MF01X with centre motor.

M05 - even worse geometry... 

TA02 - well, this car won several titles in Czech rally championship (althought heavily modified) so I'd say it's pretty good.

TT02 - its suspension isn't good for large travel.. S variant might be better.

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You can cut away some pladtic to get more suspensiontravel of a TT02...    ....i will ser when i get it.

 

The m05 isn'z verx good, it slided all over the place with the rally tires on wet Tarmac.....  i will see how it performes on off road.

 

But i think the tl02 is just fine, but i hope the TT02 will do better if it is modified.

 

Edit:

Thanks for your opinion, i hope my Ta Lancia 037 wasn't a bad opinion.

 

Edit2:

I hope i'm understandable, my english is very bad (better than my czech....) and i had a few glasses...

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On 1/22/2021 at 8:56 AM, ThunderDragonCy said:

Anyway, on Facebook there's a group promoting a 10th touring car scale rally championship, and it looks to have some support.

Is this a proper Czech style rally event with people running after their cars over long stages? I was hoping that this would take off in the UK at some point. 

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I just finished my tt02 rally. I've got a shake down run on a hard packed trail and around in my driveway and off various steps. It handles really well for a touring car chassis hoisted slightly. The ground clearance is good enough to absorb most bumps without banging bottom on everything.

It's basically the stock kit with the metal ball joints, ball bearings, stainless hex screws, upgraded dampers and aluminum drive shaft. You have to trim the front knuckles and a arms white a bit to open up the steering but once that is done you have plenty.

Some things I am going to install are the metal cvs front and rear. Also the metal steering linkages. I'm considering the adjustable upper arms for some camber control for some tarmac runs. The front plastic dog bones cause some binding when at the limits of steering and suspension droop.

I'm not decided on diffs. It may need oil filled diffs to really make the best of the tires grip off road. So far it's ok

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4 hours ago, whahooo said:

Is there a hidden Rally thread out there?

 

It would be awesometo have a thread or subforums (Onroad, F1/Pancars, Buggys/Stadium, Rally Cars, Monstertruck, etc ...) that will be covering Rally Cars. The only Subforum that we have are for Monstertrucks & Wheelie Rigs ANd Scale Amour & Big Rigs.

 

I´m soon owning 5 Rally Cars:

TL-01 - Lancia Delta Integrale

TL-01 - Toyota Celica GT 4

M 05Ra - Renault 5 Turbo (with wider rear track, but with FWD -yuck...)

TA-02s - Lancia 037

TT-02 - Audi Quattro A2 (coming soon)

 

 

What i`ve read all cars other than a XV01 are a Joke in tems of rallying :D

What are your thoughts on the TL-01s, M-05Ras, TA02Ss and TT-02s?

I think that the TL-01 is quite capable for off roading, the only donwnside is that little stones getting into the Chassis and between Chassis and the Battery....
I´ve not quite tested the TA-02s and the M 05Ra

I´ve never drove a TT02, because i thought the Chassis is rubbish and isnt usable `for anything near off the road. I always thought the TA-02s will be a better offroader by 10 Times.

 

I never will be the owner of an XV01, even knowing that is the perfect Rallychassis. But on the other Hand, i never will be racing on a Rallytrack, i just use the Cars on Tarmac and short Grass, gravel and similar surfaces for bashing or "Rallycross" Tracks.

 

 

delta.thumb.jpg.2155ec43988aaf6c590b5e2889f5f46d.jpg

 

Now the wheels are a little bit wide because i putted in wider hexes and maybe will putting in hexes that are just 1mm wider on each wheel (that would be the maximum)

I ran a TL-01 rally car for years, it went well 

34AE3984-EF87-4A08-A383-E31C9B3F3726.jpeg.f1e85178bcee06815325290b69ade54e.jpeg

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My next rally is going to be built off of a chassis from what I think was the XB hummer from 10+ years ago. I think TA-01/02 parts work on it so it should be a hoot. I really like the reasonably sealed chassis of that TL01 but I think they are entirely discontinued.

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