If you're not a member of an RC Club, why not?

[Wooders28 4723]

7 hours ago, Blista said:

All I can really say is if you can convince someone like me to turn up, you'll be doing something right. 

It's sounding like Atmosphere is a big thing. A fun one! 

No one at our club has their head stuck up anywhere, and like I say, we've got everything to lend out, cars, batteries, transponders even, so all people need to do, is turn up! 

I think a smaller, practice track, is the way forward, out of the way a bit, for people to run at their own pace.

[Wooders28 4723]

12 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

RCTech has a thread similar to this one about reviving electric on-road racing:  https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/1069599-reviving-electric-road.html

Some similar themes:

• Track schedule not compatible with others' work/life schedules

I think it's done differnet over at that side of the pond, but saying that, I don't know about on road in the UK, we'll only be off road, but -

Pretty much all tracks are run by volunteers,  there's just not the money involved to pay anyone, so tracks are only open when people can be there, or in some cases ,the tracks are open 24/7 and a coded entry for members. I work shifts though, so we could run mid week ,when i have my "weekend".

If more people are members, the more money comes in, the better and more accessible the venue becomes, so a bit ,catch 22.

12 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Location of the track, travel time, expenses like lodging and meals, etc.

Nothing we can do about that, although, back to, if more people where members, there'd be more clubs!

Although we've managed to get somewhere in a Country Park, and there's Tennis courts, Golf club, a Zoo, Cricket pitches, Play parks etc, so plenty of other things, if the rest of the family wanted to tag along.

12 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Number of classes, length of the race day, racing format with interleaved qualifiers and mains

I think in the US, the amount of classes is mind boggling, and I wonder how they manage to fill races! 

We run 2wd and 4wd (Plus trucks, if theres enough trucks and/or time, but if there's not enough, they'll go with the 2 or 4wd, depending on the truck) and that's it. Costs are lower, as you don't need the most up-to-date motor or battery, you just add more boost/turbo or what i usually suggest, is buy a hotter motor to start with (the sponsored guys usually sell there's after a season), and turn the End Point down, which you can turn up as you get better (crash less), and then hit it with boost/turbo when needed.

The length of the race day is dependant on the number of entries, if it's a fun day, people come and go as they please.

 

12 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Track atmosphere, lots of serious racers who aren't welcoming or worse to newcomers

This should be knocked on the head by the people who run the Club. Serious is one thing, but not being made welcome isn't acceptable, Any club worth it's salt, should have a point of contact for newcomers, which are both welcomed and encouraged. 

Bad language and bad behaviour is not acceptable either, I've had to have a word with someone on the rostrum in the past, yes it gets frustrating if a back marker takes you out, but that's part of racing, if you can't control yourself, get off the rostrum, or out of the club. This is generally only at the more serious, National level races though, there's been zero issues at club level in the years I've been involved. (At any level, its still not acceptable)

We're currently writing , starter guides, and contacting manufacturer's to try and get a ,budget starter pack, so we've got plans in place, for the inevitable- how much does it cost?

12 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

The time and cost commitment even when you're not at the track (cleaning and repairing things)

I don't see it being any different than, Bashing, although running on Astro, will maybe require less cleaning, one of the benefits.

12 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Fees, transponder costs, certain classes are money wars for motors, ESCs, and batteries

Fees, we can't do anything about that, we'll try and keep it as low as possible, but there's bills that need to be paid.

We managed to get a deal on a bulk buy of transponders, so we've 5 club PT's that can be used, if someone wants to be timed but doesn't have one.

Money wars for motors esc's etc, there isn't one really in the UK, as there's not really any rules (well 2s hard case ,charged to 8.4v) so once you've got a motor (I've never bought a new one), and an esc (I've come 2nd in an A final, with the 10bl120 / 6.5t motor) you're set. Although batteries are a bit on the, consumable side, as they do have a life span, but would just bashing too (I've paid £25 for my liHV lipos).

 

12 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

All of this starts to make RC feel like a commitment or another job, not a fun hobby.  When most of your waking hours are governed by a job, a spouse, kids, house/car maintenance, and maybe a commitment to a church, there's very little time or money left to engage in a RC car track.  It's much easier to catch a half hour here and there on the work bench, and maybe run something in the back yard or the street for 15-20 minutes.

Absolutely!! 

I worked over 70hrs a week average last year, so I can totally relate!

My projects have been really time limited over the past year, but this, situation, won't last forever. 

This is why I think we need more family friendly oriented clubs, so when we get a day off, everyone can go (once you've fixed that dripping tap...🤦‍♂️) 

There's over 53,000 members just on here, can you imagine if every single one, was the member of a club! Alot more clubs, so more local, more offering what sounds like most people want, more relaxed ,fun places to be. 

We are trying to address all the negatives ,obviously things like ,location to members, is nothing we can do much about, but have chosen somewhere with great road links and sign posting for visitors.

[Dakratfink 967]

The time commitment mentioned above can def be a factor. Not wanting your hobby to feel like a commitment or work. 
For me it was more of a combination of other factors.

Shifting work schedules not being able to predict when I would be able to make races or not were a big factor for a while  ( on a more steady schedule  now though) . 
another huge one is I am not on social media and most updates, times, location etc are disseminated that way these days.

[Krustybus 214]

I tried to race as a kid but found it very intimidating but I think that's says more about me being a shy kid than anything else.

There's a club in my local town that is very long established but it looks like the racing is all tarmac based touring car stuff. I've stopped by to check it out a few times when I've been out cycling. It still looks intimidating lol.

I've been mountain bike racing for a few years and never had too much trouble with that (stopped now due to kids and lack of time to train...plus as I get older I'm not as brave!)

I love the idea of social track days, bit like with 1:1 cars. I also used to be involved in a couple of car groups and the best days were going out to the track (Santa Pod 1/4 mile RWYB were great fun) rather than sitting about in a pub car park. It would be so good if more clubs did that kind of thing. I'd be really keen to join in with that rather than full on competition. It appears that's something that's missing, there's no particular 'gateway' into it and it does look like an older guys pastime (I guess I fall into that catergory!)

I also find running my cars in my back yard on my own a bit dull despite my best efforts to get the kids involved (they're 6 & 3) 

[Mad Ax 9313]

I've had an on/off relationship with clubs and racing over the last few years but 2020 was probably the best year's racing I ever had, and I really hope we can get some races in 2021, even if they are outdoors and with all the social distancing requirements we had last year.

When I got back into RC in the mid-00s I was just bashing on my own, and getting bored.  I'm the same now.  There's only so much driving around I can do on my own before I lose interest.  During Lockdown 1.0 I had planned to run a one-day race event with just me in it, but I rather spent my time in the workshop making things.  RC meets are as much about the social as they are the cars, I'm not really a social person and generally introverted but I still like to be part of something.  Even scale crawling, which is supposed to be a good solo passion, gets tiresome after a while when there are no challenges and nobody to either help out or compete against*.

Anyhoo - I joined TC in the mid-00s and back then we had some local bashes in country parks and disused car parks, just turning up with whatever we had and running around all day.  For a long time (up until 2020, really) that was the pinnacle of RC enjoyment for me - unfortunately most of the local RCers moved on, and there was nothing at all like that.  Half a decade ago I found Iconic RC on Facebook - they were hiring out tracks around the UK for open vintage bashing - no racing, no timing, no heats, just turn up, pay your fee and drive.  All the meets were a long way from me but I made some extended journeys and had some of the best days out ever.

Then Iconic became about racing, and although I did some of the races, I missed the bashes.  For ages there was nothing.  Then Tamiya Junkies came along, I went to my first meet in Feb 2019, and figured that was exactly what I wanted to do.  I talked with a local-ish track (Mendip, about 70 mins from me) about running an open event and they were keen - but I happened to coincide my event with the launch of the new Dirt3D track which is 30 mins from me, so I decided to cancel my event and let Dirt3D get up and running.  And then we had some awful weather that impacted the track's opening, then 2020 happened, and yeah, here we are :/ 

Racing-wise - back in the mid-00s I started at a local indoor club.  Super-friendly, a great bunch of people, very welcoming to new drivers and youngsters, one or two more serious grumpy types but that's fine, they're OK on a personal basis and they don't impact the club atmosphere.  Had some great times there but honestly I get a bit bored with the same format every week, and it was always a bit of a hassle to finish work, get there in time to help set up, then have a crazy flat-out night of prepping, racing, marshalling, repeat, then get home late having not had any dinner.

A few times a year they'd do a one-day championship on a Sunday, or a drift night, or a caravan racing night, often with a Best Shell competition as well.

I tried a few other local indoor clubs and found them much the same, it was nice to change the scenery every now and then and there were always the same faces - some people live to race and race 4 nights per week travelling to all the local clubs.

I'd also do the Iconic races where possible, although was sometimes it was difficult to commit to a weekend event on the other side of the country.  Vintage racing is much more laid back, especially in the lower heats where I mostly reside.  However Iconic has changed a lot - first those carefree days of open bashing, then the relaxed vintage race events - now it gets a lot of oldskool racers including some former champions, cars have got much hotter and more modified, 2021 is the first year the Revival classes have got significant restrictions on what you can run, which is probably a good idea but has upset some people who have been running heavily modded vintage cars for years.

As Lockdown 1.0 came to an end last year, I joined the Cotswold club, because they had a permanent outdoor track that was always accessible to members, and as a member I could go there to practice before we were legally allowed to resume racing.  I did a couple of races there too which I really enjoyed.  Cotswold is a more "serious" club (it's mainly a 1:8 track that hosts national nitro events) but everybody there has been friendly, it's possible to be a serious and dedicated racer without being miserable or unwelcoming to new drivers.  When I damaged a spur I even found someone to lend me a spare, despite BRCA advice not to share parts due to possible cross-covidination.

I haven't renewed my Cotswold membership (or my BRCA licence) so far this year because I'm trying to watch the pennies and for me it's a waste if I don't actually get to race.  I know clubs rely on membership to pay for their facilities, but last year I paid £50 for one practice session and two races (for which I had to pay entry fees anyway and would have been able to enter as a non-member), so it worked out expensive.  This year's Iconic calendar pretty much fills up my race schedule so, assuming it happens as scheduled, I may not have any free weekends to race at Cotswold.  If the Iconic calendar doesn't run due to the pandemic then it's doubtful the Cotswold calendar will either.  Evening practice sessions would be nice but realistically that only happens in the height of summer for weather and light.

Besides racing and bashing, I do other RC events too.  Pre-pandemic I would drive 75 mins each way to go drifting, once or twice a month.  Sometimes, if the stars aligned, I'd camp over in the van or stay in a cheap hotel after drifting, and do a big rig event the next day.  Twice a year I'd travel to Derbyshire for national scaler events, as well as doing other smaller local scaler meets.  Thanks to work put in by Motorsport UK and the BRCA, racing was able to get up and running post-lockdown using a Covid-safe framework; big rig events, scaler meets and drift clubs aren't part of BRCA and so had no framework to work under.  Every event by every group needed to make their own Covid-safe policy, and that's a lot of work, especially for smaller clubs with no specific membership policy or even a committee, operating on other people's land or in public spaces.  I doubt I'll be doing any big-rigging in 2021 and crawling may have to be kept to whatever size group we're allowed to meet on a social basis at whatever time we're allowed to do that.

My point is that's a fairly diverse set of RC-related hobbies that I get up to, many of which are not compatible with others.  So although my local carpet racing club does an annual drift night, they don't invest in a dedicated drift carpet with the proper treatment, nor do they expect people to arrive with dedicated drift cars.  The type of people who go to the big rig meets are very different to those who go to the vintage buggy racing meets.  There is some crossover between scaler group members and local racers, but the race club isn't interested in hosting scaler events, nor have its committee got space to store a selection of temporary obstacles alongside the carpet and track markers.

*Ax's Anecdote: In solo crawling, it's you against the terrain.  But I find I'm easily defeated by it.  In a group event we'll keep at the same obstacle, over and over, until we beat it, even if it takes a team effort with winches to get through.  Plus, somebody would have put gate markers there, so you know it must be theoretically possible, and presumably the course designer succeeded, even if he had a superior rig.  But on solo crawling, I'll just hunt around for cool-looking obstacles and I'll mentally mark out where I think the gate should be.  This is known as "that's the gate."  Then I'll try the obstacle a few time, and a few more time, and sometimes, a few more times after that.  If I still haven't achieved it, I'll mentally mark out a slightly different gate that's much easier, and make it in my first pass.  Then I'll say "no, that's the gate."  I discussed this with a friend and he says he does exactly the same thing.  So if we're out crawling together, it's become known as the "that's the gate...  no, that's the gate!" trope.

[Mad Ax 9313]

8 minutes ago, Krustybus said:

There's a club in my local town that is very long established but it looks like the racing is all tarmac based touring car stuff. I've stopped by to check it out a few times when I've been out cycling. It still looks intimidating lol.

Stafford RCMCC on the football ground?  I did 3 races there last year in the Classics class, had a great time and found it a friendly club.  Very well set out for non-covidment too and the fellow that runs it takes all the safety stuff seriously.  Stafford is officially my favourite tarmac circuit and if we were allowed I'd be booking myself into the next race on the calendar 

[Krustybus 214]

40 minutes ago, Mad Ax said:

Stafford RCMCC on the football ground?  I did 3 races there last year in the Classics class, had a great time and found it a friendly club.  Very well set out for non-covidment too and the fellow that runs it takes all the safety stuff seriously.  Stafford is officially my favourite tarmac circuit and if we were allowed I'd be booking myself into the next race on the calendar 

That's the one, I only live about 5 mins away. 

I'm purely going off being an outsider looking in. Once things settle down a bit I should perhaps make an effort to find out more  

[Mad Ax 9313]

8 minutes ago, Krustybus said:

That's the one, I only live about 5 mins away. 

I'm purely going off being an outsider looking in. Once things settle down a bit I should perhaps make an effort to find out more  

Stafford is supposedly hosting round 5 of the Iconic Cup in July, I'm hoping to be there if all goes to plan - covidium rules probably won't allow spectators inside the pit area but you could wander down the lane and watch.  I'll pop out and say hello

[simalarion 2196]

Many is cind of in the same boat as me (Old - Job - Family first etc) but for me trhere is also other issues.

AS i kid i loved the Tamiya RC cars, but i never got into fixing them or anything or building/paint them for that matter (others did that for me,  was probably around 11). So 1 year ago i picked this Hobby again to do all this myself and i was hooked on painting/building and carefully drive them on my first Kit/Build(TGH ofc), i would love to be in a "club" with that lvl of intrest but i do not think it exist. What i see before me showing up at a Club in Oslo with my Top-Force (or worse TGH) is friendly laughter and is told that this is Traxxas only club where main interests ist compete with tuned Traxxas RC Cars (and similar, you get the idea), i know right away that that is not for me, these thoughts keep me away from even trying to contact or show up at a RC Course

[mud4fun 1696]

6 minutes ago, simalarion said:

.... i was hooked on painting/building and carefully drive them on my first Kit/Build(TGH ofc), i would love to be in a "club" with that lvl of intrest but i do not think it exist. 

Yes, there is one and you are already a member of it - TamiyaClub! 

 

[simalarion 2196]

7 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

Yes, there is one and you are already a member of it - TamiyaClub! 

 

Thats correct and i am very pleased to have this Forum that have also saved me many times when help was needed , but i think this thread is more about meeting up face to face with others and driving togheter, and i stronglyh belive that such a Club at my lvl (wich is: Beer in hand chatting about paint jobs and  "to bad you cant drink and drive RC Car at the same time, i would love that" LVL) of interest does not exist in Oslo

 

[mud4fun 1696]

1 minute ago, simalarion said:

Thats correct and i am very pleased to have this Forum that have also saved me many times when help was needed , but i think this thread is more about meeting up face to face with others and driving togheter, and i stronglyh belive that such a Club at my lvl (wich is: Beer in hand chatting about paint jobs and  "to bad you cant drink and drive RC Car at the same time, i would love that" LVL) of interest does not exist in Oslo

 

If you post an approx location of where you are in the appropriate forum section asking if any other members live nearby you may then be able to message them, get talking and arrange a small get together? You never know, another member may live close to you. I have a fellow TC member living just 5 miles from me (that I know of) and we met up a few months ago for a quick chat. We may get together to do some running once lockdown is lifted.

I used to do that with a few other members on here 15 years ago, we'd meet up at a local park and chat about cars, modifications and do some bashing. No real racing involved, just fun and a bit of socialising. 

[El Gecko 1344]

21 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

Yes, there is one and you are already a member of it - TamiyaClub! 

 

This is a very good point. We have a whole subforum devoted to meetings and events, which we could definitely take better advantage of once COVID restrictions are lifted (if ever) for more impromptu TC meetups. This forum is worldwide, so there's the potential to bring groups together in any city or region.

[Robert5000 928]

26 minutes ago, simalarion said:

Many is cind of in the same boat as me (Old - Job - Family first etc) but for me trhere is also other issues.

AS i kid i loved the Tamiya RC cars, but i never got into fixing them or anything or building/paint them for that matter (others did that for me,  was probably around 11). So 1 year ago i picked this Hobby again to do all this myself and i was hooked on painting/building and carefully drive them on my first Kit/Build(TGH ofc), i would love to be in a "club" with that lvl of intrest but i do not think it exist. What i see before me showing up at a Club in Oslo with my Top-Force (or worse TGH) is friendly laughter and is told that this is Traxxas only club where main interests ist compete with tuned Traxxas RC Cars (and similar, you get the idea), i know right away that that is not for me, these thoughts keep me away from even trying to contact or show up at a RC Course

No need to worry about it being a "traxxas only club" For sure there's a lot of competitive guys there, but there's also some folks into vintage racing. The nordic vintage challenge has been arranged there a couple of times if I remember correctly. 

Caveat, I'm talking about the club at Hvervenbukta, no idea if there's any other clubs in Oslo. 

[simalarion 2196]

@Robert500 Yeah, thats the Club ive been looking at and it looks far far over my lvl :), i would feel stupid puting my RC on road like this (also with my low lvl driving skill):

But if it was not such a long way from where i live in Oslo (complete other side of Town) i would for sure go down and check it our earlier.

edit: In the vidoe i think they are competing with Nitro RC cars, sounds like it (?),. 

[Robert5000 928]

Well, that's easy. Bring a buggy and use the off road track

[Wooders28 4723]

2 hours ago, Krustybus said:

I love the idea of social track days, bit like with 1:1 cars. I also used to be involved in a couple of car groups and the best days were going out to the track (Santa Pod 1/4 mile RWYB were great fun) rather than sitting about in a pub car park.

This is kind of what I'd want to do, (also, it would be great to get back down to The Pod!! 😁)

We've the Rugby clubhouse we're allowed to use, so I'm hoping to have a weekend event, meaning it would be viable for people from further a field to join us Camping (need to see about using the Rugby pitch), open race track, open practice track, if theres enough interest,  a crawler track (?) Etc etc, Bars open, restaurant open and then function room if it gets cold, or a BBQ outside, whichever, make it an enjoyable holiday weekend for the family.

 

I want to find out what fellow RC N̶u̶t̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ A̶d̶d̶i̶c̶t̶s̶ comrades want out of their club, I just enjoy the gathering of said people, discussing RC , driving RC and generally enjoying the scene.

[Wooders28 4723]

24 minutes ago, simalarion said:

Yeah, thats the Club ive been looking at and it looks far far over my lvl :), i would feel stupid puting my RC on road like this (also with my low lvl driving skill):

Everyone starts somewhere, absolutley no one took hold of their first controller, and were the best driver, my money is they've all had, or still got a tamiya in their collection.

[mud4fun 1696]

42 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Everyone starts somewhere, absolutley no one took hold of their first controller, and were the best driver, my money is they've all had, or still got a tamiya in their collection.

Lee Martin definitely has because he even did a YouTube vid of his TRF recently.

Also Trish Neal from Schumacher has several Tamiyas on the shelf behind him in many of his vids including a lunchbox

 

[Krustybus 214]

16 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

Stafford is supposedly hosting round 5 of the Iconic Cup in July, I'm hoping to be there if all goes to plan - covidium rules probably won't allow spectators inside the pit area but you could wander down the lane and watch.  I'll pop out and say hello

I saw that there was going to be a round there. If it goes ahead I'll definitely pop down for a nosey  you can get a reasonable view from the lane. Wait and see if it goes ahead!

[cowboyjon 20]

On 1/23/2021 at 9:23 PM, Wooders28 said:

As a few of you know, we are building a new venue for the Glasgow RC Club.

As part of the running the club, we want to have more people enjoying being part of the RC community and RC club.

I've put this under  ' General Discussions ' ,as I don't want to send out the wrong message by putting the thread under ' RC Racing Talk' .

So, if you're not a member of a club, why is that? 

- Not any clubs in your area?

- If you don't have the most up-to-date, high end equipment you think you'll be laughed at? 

- If you're not competitive, you won't fit in? 

-Too serious?

 

I'm wanting to have days / events for everyone, not serious about racing, not a problem, we'll just have an, open track day etc etc.

I love being part if a club, the main reason being, I can talk RC cars for hours and people listen and discuss without falling asleep, and also, no one thinks you're mad!?!? 🤷‍♂️

Well, I'm not too far away in Carluke and even I had no idea a (somewhat) local club even existed so there's a good starting point 😂

 

For us personally, me and my sons aged 11 and 9, the idea of getting a play round a real track is appealing but everything else that comes with it not so much.

We enjoy our time with the rc's but aren't really interested in blathering about them with 40 year old men to be honest😅 although it would warm the cockles of my heart to see my kids engaging with others their own age on the hobby. 

 

 

Probably it's as much the thought of us turning up with our tamiyas or whatever and just getting in everyone's way that would stop us trying it. Maybe the best way around that would be an open track day aimed at easing in beginners, maybe once a month or so? 

[cowboyjon 20]

To put it another way, if we could turn up at a purpose built track with a boot full of our random cars, pay a reasonable amount of money to have fun on it for a while and then ****** off home we would be all for it, which would potentially lead to us becoming comfortable enough to delve deeper into the club structure. 

 

I see a lot of, 'don't be daft, our club is full of the friendliest folks', type comments all the time in all different types of hobbies - rc, motorcycle track days, road cycling, mountain biking, even weight lifting and while that may indeed be true I think a lot of the time people saying it are so far removed from those newbie experiences that they can't even relate to the anxiety involved 😂

[mud4fun 1696]

Totally Agree @cowboyjon my kids felt the same, very nervous about running cars for the first time on a proper race track with people other than family or friends, especially hardcore racers. We have no idea of what our driving abilities are like compared to other racers.

We fair OK in the postal racing results and I believe a few of the postal racers are also club racers, so maybe we are doubting our abilities too much. However postal racing is not on the same scale AND we don't run on the same physical track at the same time so no chance of damaging another racers expensive pride and joy.

Thankfully I have heard back from Robin Hood Raceway (RHR) and it sounds ideal. We just need to be BRCA members to use the track but we don't have to be member of a local club. We can just turn up whenever and pay a fee to use one of their three tracks!

Obviously they are closed due to lockdown at the moment but once lockdown is lifted (2050? ) then we'll start going down there, probably at weekends or at known quiet times to get some practise and acclimatisation. 

Once the kids have got used to the track and maybe running against just one or two other strangers they will lose some of their anxiety, we can then consider joining the relevent club (eg York Off Road Club) and looking at entering some races. James from RHR suggested that TamiyaJunkies events may be a good start as they do a run what ya bring type 'free for all' with emphasis on fun. That would be ideal for my kids.

[mud4fun 1696]

Funny enough though, I used to be a member of a 1:1 off road club many years ago and took part in RTV Trials and Safari races etc. Even within that club we had 'clicks' of people who held great disdain for each other.....

One lot, including me, ran near stock (other than different tyres) classic Land Rovers. No suspension lifts, no snorkels, no million candlepower light bars, no 2 ton of armoured skid plates, no external roll cages and no 500hp V8's or tuned to within an inch of their life diesels. The other lot had all those things. Let's call them the Traxxas crowd....  (my near stock classic leaf spring 88" would beat most of them on RTV trials and even in some mud bogging and crawling events! It grew wearisome demonstrating to them that driver skill often made up for all their expensive kit!!!)

I quit that club in the end because the events (probably in an attempt to get rid of us boring old farts) were getting silly, bigger and steeper climbs, ever deeper mud holes, deeper water or higher speeds etc and it became a competition of who could spend the most money on outlandish suspension lifts or pro race spec engines. Driver skill seemed irrelevant towards the end as only the 50K purpose built race or trials machine could win.

[cowboyjon 20]

This sounds like my experience with motorcycle track days.