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Top force evo!!! Thunder dragon !!! 2021

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46 minutes ago, Robert5000 said:

It's a shame tamico isn't shipping to the UK at the moment, as they're asking £266 + £18 for shipment, with 20 % VAT that would amount to roughly 341 (if my math is sound.) 

He has adjusted in the past. Ie he doesn't list the US for shipping but will if you message him.

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40 minutes ago, GTodd said:

No reason to be rude. Your comparison is fair but not accurate. The only costly add of the Terra Scorcher were the ball bearing. A price of piano wire and one more cva isn't the same comparison of the EVOs EXPENSIVE UPGRADES over a plastic tub manta.

I shall compare mr Rude.

Manta - Tub Chassis, EVO - Carbon Graphite

Manta - plastic CVA, EVO - Metal more complex Hicaps

Manta - olite bushings, EVO All Ball Bearing

Manta plastic gear diffs, EVO aluminum ball diffs

Manta - no one way, Evo One way

 

@GTodd I don't think @nowinaminute was being rude. As per their original comment, they were commenting on the price of the Thunder Dragon and that the Terra Scorcher was more car for the same sort of money and a Manta Ray was cheaper. I think you missed the bit about the TD. 

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50 minutes ago, GTodd said:

No reason to be rude. Your comparison is fair but not accurate. The only costly add of the Terra Scorcher were the ball bearing. A price of piano wire and one more cva isn't the same comparison of the EVOs EXPENSIVE UPGRADES over a plastic tub manta.

I shall compare mr Rude.

Manta - Tub Chassis, EVO - Carbon Graphite

Manta - plastic CVA, EVO - Metal more complex Hicaps

Manta - olite bushings, EVO All Ball Bearing

Manta plastic gear diffs, EVO aluminum ball diffs

Manta - no one way, Evo One way

 

You didn't read it again, then.

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11 minutes ago, mman2005 said:

@GTodd I don't think @nowinaminute was being rude. As per their original comment, they were commenting on the price of the Thunder Dragon and that the Terra Scorcher was more car for the same sort of money and a Manta Ray was cheaper. I think you missed the bit about the TD. 

I told them to read again but it seems like people would rather double down these days. They even quoted me saying Thunder Dragon :rolleyes:

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Let's be real...Tamiya pricing rarely makes sense.  A Manta Ray is $90 but a NIB Frog is $195?   

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Ah, the Evo! :) Still have my original, so no need for the Rere, at least I hope so.

Price is good, if it comes with Ti screws as the original, and the light weight diff parts.

I have may doubts at the moment. My guess is, for that price, it lacks the diff parts, has std. screws, and the old cardans. Avante / Egress / VQS have the better driveshafts.

Tamiya should have updated the Evo as well as the Avante.

But hope to be wrong...

And again a prepainted body? Why Tamiya?

 

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I wonder if they will re re the bearing kits for the re re models at a decent price.

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Didn't want to make my own post but how does the Thunder Dragon drive? I've never built a vintage RC and this one looks really cool and looks more capable then something like a Grasshopper. It'll probably spend most of its life on a shelf so I would just add bearings but I'd like to take it on a spin when the mood strikes. 

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2 hours ago, Glowingtomato said:

Didn't want to make my own post but how does the Thunder Dragon drive? I've never built a vintage RC and this one looks really cool and looks more capable then something like a Grasshopper. It'll probably spend most of its life on a shelf so I would just add bearings but I'd like to take it on a spin when the mood strikes. 

The stock build (with ball bearings) drives lovely, no issues that I can remember, you know though by driving, that the chassis can handle more...

I have now been driving my thundershot for years but with added steel pinion (13t), super stock bz motor and a steel support for the A5. I have gone faster in the past but I have come back to this setup as the sweet spot for me of handling, durability etc. Also with my setup I have found driving with bald tyres (eventually) is still achievable and provides a good setup for some nice brake slides etc.

 

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23 hours ago, taffer said:

The stock build (with ball bearings) drives lovely, no issues that I can remember, you know though by driving, that the chassis can handle more...

I have now been driving my thundershot for years but with added steel pinion (13t), super stock bz motor and a steel support for the A5. I have gone faster in the past but I have come back to this setup as the sweet spot for me of handling, durability etc. Also with my setup I have found driving with bald tyres (eventually) is still achievable and provides a good setup for some nice brake slides etc.

 

Well you convinced me. I couldn't find a US site that does preorders but I did sign up for an notice when it's on Tamiyas USA site. 

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17 minutes ago, Glowingtomato said:

Well you convinced me. I couldn't find a US site that does preorders but I did sign up for an notice when it's on Tamiyas USA site. 

atleast you have TamiyaUSA. i need to rely on my LHS site in Canada or look at RCmart. TamiyaUSA isnt the first site to get the info RCmart is $400 for 2021 top force evo (though for some reason they crossed out a price of $999) while TamiyaUSA still has listed a price. then again RC mart is in HK so shipping costs will be higher but it might take a bit until the TD is released a bit closer to home.. i cant wait till february or march for preorders to come available.

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4 hours ago, nel33 said:

atleast you have TamiyaUSA. i need to rely on my LHS site in Canada or look at RCmart. TamiyaUSA isnt the first site to get the info RCmart is $400 for 2021 top force evo (though for some reason they crossed out a price of $999) while TamiyaUSA still has listed a price. then again RC mart is in HK so shipping costs will be higher but it might take a bit until the TD is released a bit closer to home.. i cant wait till february or march for preorders to come available.

I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for us in the UK.......but please someone feel sorry for us in the UK! We have now got the fallout of our departure from Europe and we get mugged off with import tax anything I think over £135 give or take a few £ then vat 20% has to be paid on that import taxes/duty then because whatever courier handles you packages has a handling fee for various reasons and you have to pay vat on the postage this is going to make a overseas kit purchase (at the moment) not very viable if anything a lot more expensive? So the alternative is obviously buy in the uk which to be honest we should be supporting our LHS but the release dates of new models is a bit like throwing the darts at a dart board and hop for the best I don't know how many times I watch the release date change from one month to the next as I watch the rest of the world receive the kit I have on order!

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6 hours ago, Glowingtomato said:

Well you convinced me. I couldn't find a US site that does preorders but I did sign up for an notice when it's on Tamiyas USA site. 

That should be the last place you buy a kit in the states.  Their MSRP is bananas, but it's on purpose to protect LHS and even the bigger online ones.  I'm sure Tower will have the Thunder Dragon listed, although I'm not sure of the hold up with that, the egress and the TFE. They put up the VQS pretty quickly and they still have some stock last I checked.  

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1 hour ago, A-Baum said:

That should be the last place you buy a kit in the states.  Their MSRP is bananas, but it's on purpose to protect LHS and even the bigger online ones.  I'm sure Tower will have the Thunder Dragon listed, although I'm not sure of the hold up with that, the egress and the TFE. They put up the VQS pretty quickly and they still have some stock last I checked.  

Yeah I'll probably check Tower and Amain but they don't have any of the just announced cars up yet. Tower has been great for Tamiya kits. I've recently picked up 3 kits for great prices. 

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2 hours ago, moffman said:

I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for us in the UK.......but please someone feel sorry for us in the UK! We have now got the fallout of our departure from Europe and we get mugged off with import tax anything I think over £135 give or take a few £ then vat 20% has to be paid on that import taxes/duty then because whatever courier handles you packages has a handling fee for various reasons and you have to pay vat on the postage this is going to make a overseas kit purchase (at the moment) not very viable if anything a lot more expensive? So the alternative is obviously buy in the uk which to be honest we should be supporting our LHS but the release dates of new models is a bit like throwing the darts at a dart board and hop for the best I don't know how many times I watch the release date change from one month to the next as I watch the rest of the world receive the kit I have on order!

I didnt been to feel feel too sorry for those in the UK though it does such that the extra costs make it even more expensive for those of you in UK  to buy these kits. 20% added to a high enpugh price isnt fun. Even the price im going to fork over is high...

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3 hours ago, moffman said:

I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for us in the UK.......but please someone feel sorry for us in the UK! We have now got the fallout of our departure from Europe and we get mugged off with import tax anything I think over £135 give or take a few £ then vat 20% has to be paid on that import taxes/duty then because whatever courier handles you packages has a handling fee for various reasons and you have to pay vat on the postage this is going to make a overseas kit purchase (at the moment) not very viable if anything a lot more expensive? So the alternative is obviously buy in the uk which to be honest we should be supporting our LHS but the release dates of new models is a bit like throwing the darts at a dart board and hop for the best I don't know how many times I watch the release date change from one month to the next as I watch the rest of the world receive the kit I have on order!

Welcome to life outside of the EU! Having never been part of the union that's how it's always been here in Norway. Apart from all the handling fees etc. Tamico deducts German VAT, shipping to Norway costs €19, and Norwegian VAT is added when I pick it up at the post office. So it works like a charm. 

As for supporting my LHS, I completely agree -and for the longest time I bought most every kit from my LHS apart from those long out of stock. But these days kits take forever to get here, the Vanquish still haven't made it to Norway and when it does I'm told the price will be €452, which means I can buy something like 1.7 kits at Tamico for the same price. So that boat won't float. The upside to kits taking forever to reach the stores here is that I was able to pick up two Super Astute re-re's which seem to be long gone from Tamico et al. 

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Well long hard thinking i have pre ordered a TFE ... after myself turning down the rere TF last year for just £169 ... O well not letting another get  away  . but i do fancy the  Egress next ...

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1 hour ago, Robert5000 said:

Welcome to life outside of the EU! Having never been part of the union that's how it's always been here in Norway. Apart from all the handling fees etc. Tamico deducts German VAT, shipping to Norway costs €19, and Norwegian VAT is added when I pick it up at the post office. So it works like a charm. 

As for supporting my LHS, I completely agree -and for the longest time I bought most every kit from my LHS apart from those long out of stock. But these days kits take forever to get here, the Vanquish still haven't made it to Norway and when it does I'm told the price will be €452, which means I can buy something like 1.7 kits at Tamico for the same price. So that boat won't float. The upside to kits taking forever to reach the stores here is that I was able to pick up two Super Astute re-re's which seem to be long gone from Tamico et al. 

I didn't realise Norway wasn't in the EU? So you must be used to all this extra cost! I must admit the last kit I bought from overseas was my avante black special simply because by the time I had saved up for one they had all disappeared from the UK so I bought it from tamico but I'm thinking from now on it's my LHS which wasn't there when I bought my avante black special 

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Wow, I pop in once and a while (every few years) and there's something else for me to consider (he says whilst looking at his 40th Anniversary Porsche). I suppose a TFE rere was inevitable since Tamiya seem to have given up on leading the pack. It's an expensive proposition though and since it's not identical to the original I wonder where the value is? The Avante/Egress rere's make sense, they're a unique build experience (like a Scorcher or Hi-Lift) but the TFE is really just a standard DF/TA/01/02 build for the most part, with the carryover chassis and drivetrain fragilities, much more than a 13x2 will blow up the gearbox.

But heck, I'm still considering one to add to the original collection I have (1 x runner, 1 x TF conversion, 1 x shelfer, 2 x NIB), and if nothing else the reintroduction will bump the spare parts supply chain.

For those thinking of buying and running one then be aware that you'll probably get the same enjoyment, and more track success, for a lower cost, by getting a more modern buggy and a plain old TA02 to build for the experience. But don't let me dissuade you, the TFE will always have a special place in my heart. :wub:

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2 hours ago, djmcnz said:

It's an expensive proposition though and since it's not identical to the original I wonder where the value is? The Avante/Egress rere's make sense, they're a unique build experience (like a Scorcher or Hi-Lift) but the TFE is really just a standard DF/TA/01/02 build for the most part, with the carryover chassis and drivetrain fragilities, much more than a 13x2 will blow up the gearbox.

That's kinda where my opinion is. The TFE has its fans for obvious reasons and I totally understand its price tag. Its right up there with the Egress in the more exotic materials department. Still, despite probably out-performing the Egress, it just doesn't have that special something that grabs my interest. Its all the option parts thrown at the reasonably capable, DF01 chassis which, in itself, was a jack-of-all-trades platform. The Egress stemmed from the Avante series which was designed with one thing in mind. While you could argue the Egress was an Avante with all the options, those options virtually re-made the whole car. There was a great deal of development between the Avante and the Egress. Again, I'm not claiming the TFE wasn't the better performer, rather its uniqueness might stem from its rarity rather than its technical uniqueness.

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21 hours ago, moffman said:

I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for us in the UK.......but please someone feel sorry for us in the UK! We have now got the fallout of our departure from Europe and we get mugged off with import tax anything I think over £135 give or take a few £ then vat 20% has to be paid on that import taxes/duty then because whatever courier handles you packages has a handling fee for various reasons and you have to pay vat on the postage this is going to make a overseas kit purchase (at the moment) not very viable if anything a lot more expensive?

Don't forget that low value consignment relief (no VAT if under £15) has also gone away - so *any* purchase from abroad will get import VAT and fees added, unless the seller is registered to sort out the UK VAT for you and count it as pre-paid. (But then that's a pain for them to sort out how money shuffles around to HMRC here etc). Argh!

(Edit: the £135 limit is for customs duty as well as import VAT)

I'm glad I got a TF from Tamico ages ago when it somehow got down to about £140!  (€160 at the time)

Are any of the parts like the Evo coloured wheels and upgraded diffs going to be available separately, does anyone know?

Edited by legooolas
add mention of £135 duty threshold

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On 1/31/2021 at 1:46 PM, moffman said:

I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for us in the UK.......but please someone feel sorry for us in the UK! We have now got the fallout of our departure from Europe and we get mugged off with import tax anything I think over £135 give or take a few £ then vat 20% has to be paid on that import taxes/duty then because whatever courier handles you packages has a handling fee for various reasons and you have to pay vat on the postage this is going to make a overseas kit purchase (at the moment) not very viable if anything a lot more expensive? So the alternative is obviously buy in the uk which to be honest we should be supporting our LHS but the release dates of new models is a bit like throwing the darts at a dart board and hop for the best I don't know how many times I watch the release date change from one month to the next as I watch the rest of the world receive the kit I have on order!

Without making this thread about Brexit what am I missing here?

Tamiya products aren't made anywhere in Europe as far as I know so why would leaving the EU make any difference to the prices? If you are talking about people buying their kits from other European countries just because it was slightly cheaper than buying them from UK dealers then I say that's tough luck and I guess it's going to be time for people to invest all that money they saved back into their own economy.

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8 hours ago, Rich_8717 said:

Without making this thread about Brexit what am I missing here?

Tamiya products aren't made anywhere in Europe as far as I know so why would leaving the EU make any difference to the prices? If you are talking about people buying their kits from other European countries just because it was slightly cheaper than buying them from UK dealers then I say that's tough luck and I guess it's going to be time for people to invest all that money they saved back into their own economy.

It make a lot of difference in price because 20% import taxes is applied then vat on that tax and vat on the postage then surcharge from which ever courier! It WAS simply cheaper to import unfortunately it isn't now and yes your right it's tough luck and people will probably start buying in the UK because that option has been taken away for now!  tamico were very competitive and stella models in the far east (although stella not so much over the last few years)........the new blue passports look nice and shiny though!

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Basically the difference is that the new rules tighten up the loopholes on farceast imports that mostly used to avoid duty and vat. Now that the overseas vendors have to be registered for vat in the uk, they have to charge vat. The law hasn't changed, but the ability to avoid it has. 

The tamico situation is different because brexit has undoubtedly increased EU prices now we are out of the single market, because duty is now applied and fees for presenting the item at customs are now needed. There was always VAT on these items.

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I know I'm probably an odd case but not much has changed for me. I would normally buy from UK wherever possible. Only if I could not find parts here would I order from abroad. In most cases I needed those parts (eg. To fix a broken Egress) so I would just pay the increased price anyway, in fact in most cases I needed the parts fast so I paid for rapid delivery. In virtually every case of rapid delivery I had to pay customs and duties etc. Most of my orders were to Japan, Hong Kong or other parts of Asia. As a percentage of the order cost it was expensive but I was happy to pay that to get my buggy fixed and back in operation. I have had a couple of orders completed since 1st Jan and not noticed any significant increase, certainly nothing to make me avoid placing orders in future. The only orders I used to escape duty on where non rapid postage, they would often escape duties BUT would take months to arrive. I was happy to pay the additional £20 or so in duties to get the parts faster.

As I say though, I may be a special case.

We each have different ideas of what 'expensive' is. For example, I honestly don't understand collectors thinking about a few hundred £ profit on a Tamiya kit when my house has fluctuated from being £50K in negative equity to £150K in positive equity in the space of 15 years!  My classic Land Rovers have appreciated in value from £2K to £20K in same time, I spend hundreds a month on cigarettes and in the last 12 months I've spent £5K in finance, VED and insurance on a modern car that has only done 400 miles due to lockdowns!! (My old 109" Land Rover has been used more) So for me a few hundred pounds profit is hardly worthy of my time or storage space and an extra £20 on an order is the least of my problems. :)

PS. Anybody else noticed the government and insurance companies still charging same prices for VED and insurance policies despite us being severely limited in using our cars? Nice scam! 

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