The M - Chassis TOPIC

[Pylon80]

4 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

metal dogbones from the get go

The most significant difference I think is the steel suspension pins on the M-05, similar to a modern TC car. These are assembled dry, have very low friction and stay this way. The plastic-on-plastic system of the MB-01 is the same "technology" (the "" are important here 🤣) as the grasshopper. It requires grease, which messy as soon as you run it outside, attracts dirt, has significant friction and wears out.

[Sogogi]

1 hour ago, Kowalski86 said:

Thats his secret right there, sounds like while everyone switched cars every week, he stuck with what he knew. Smart move.

I am newbie to racing, but i was able to run the track faster with silver can than 3300kv brushless motor setup. (And of course, latter burned more tires too loool)

[Kowalski86]

11 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

The most significant difference I think is the steel suspension pins on the M-05, similar to a modern TC car. These are assembled dry, have very low friction and stay this way. The plastic-on-plastic system of the MB-01 is the same "technology" (the "" are important here 🤣) as the grasshopper. It requires grease, which messy as soon as you run it outside, attracts dirt, has significant friction and wears out.

Good point, when they "wear out" does the suspension get sloppy or just stiff?

I remember the plastic on plastic parts of my TT02s, becoming stiff just from collecting dust on the road.

[Pylon80]

3 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Good point, when they "wear out" does the suspension get sloppy or just stiff?

I remember the plastic on plastic parts of my TT02s, becoming very stiff in short order.

Probably both but sloppy doesn't hurt handling nearly as much as stiff I think. It's just a lot of maintenance to remove the arms, clean and grease. I do that every hour or so on my TT-02 rally and it's not pretty after that little run time!

[Sogogi]

It is random.. but how is m04?

Looks like it is much less common than m03.

I know parts are almost impossible to get, but found a reasonable deal… so.. lol 

[Kowalski86]

7 hours ago, Sogogi said:

It is random.. but how is m04?

Looks like it is much less common than m03.

I know parts are almost impossible to get, but found a reasonable deal… so.. lol 

I've only ever heard that it's hard to drive, wants to spin out easily. It doesn't have the M06s weight over the rear wheels for extra grip.

[Willy iine]

7 hours ago, Sogogi said:

It is random.. but how is m04?

Looks like it is much less common than m03.

I know parts are almost impossible to get, but found a reasonable deal… so.. lol 

Stay away from the M04.     I have one, it is one of the worst RWD's I have.  Unless you have SUPER STICKY rear tires the car is nearly uncontrollable with anything more than a silver-can series motor for me.  There's probably a reason for that nice deal.       I recommend the M06.. or the M08R everyone has (I don't own one).

[Kowalski86]

8 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

Probably both but sloppy doesn't hurt handling nearly as much as stiff I think. It's just a lot of maintenance to remove the arms, clean and grease. I do that every hour or so on my TT-02 rally and it's not pretty after that little run time!

I think if there's any argument FOR the Grasshoppers suspension pivot setup, it's that it won't crack the mount in a serious accident.

The screw pin setup can rip the plastic in a serious enough crash. Even on Traxxas's 2wd  "extreme heavy duty bashers", the screw pin mounts can crack if you hammer them enough.

A good alternative is the setup in the TT02B, which is a metal U shaped thing that keeps the arms attached while strengthening that area.

[Sogogi]

2 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

I've only ever heard that it's hard to drive, wants to spin out easily. It doesn't have the M06s weight over the rear wheels for extra grip.

 

1 hour ago, Willy iine said:

Stay away from the M04.     I have one, it is one of the worst RWD's I have.  Unless you have SUPER STICKY rear tires the car is nearly uncontrollable with anything more than a silver-can series motor for me.  There's probably a reason for that nice deal.       I recommend the M06.. or the M08R everyone has (I don't own one).

Glad i asked.. and yeah i was thinking m06 would be a good idea without having to worry about essential parts. (It will be more like a regular fun car since i have m08 for track running)

[Kowalski86]

3 hours ago, Sogogi said:

Glad i asked.. and yeah i was thinking m06 would be a good idea without having to worry about essential parts. (It will be more like a regular fun car since i have m08 for track running)

The M06 really doesn't need much, just slightly taller dampers in the back (55mm back, slightly shorter front), better servo saver, and a fan on the motor. Drives like a buggy with lower CoG, takes LiPOs, and it keeps the battery more protected than older M chassis.

[JimBear]

Just curious ... how does the "other" M chassis fare (I am thinking especially of the 3racing Mini MG and the Carten M210 FWD, perhaps there are other FWD ones?) compared to an M-03/M-05?

[Kowalski86]

1 hour ago, JimBear said:

Just curious ... how does the "other" M chassis fare (I am thinking especially of the 3racing Mini MG and the Carten M210 FWD, perhaps there are other FWD ones?) compared to an M-03/M-05?

As far as I know, they're much better for racing and come with plenty of "hop-ups" out of the box. They're just not as parking lot proof.

That'd be a good question for @alvinlwh

[Willy iine]

1 hour ago, JimBear said:

Just curious ... how does the "other" M chassis fare (I am thinking especially of the 3racing Mini MG and the Carten M210 FWD, perhaps there are other FWD ones?) compared to an M-03/M-05?

From my experience M03 can be tuned to be very competitive against others including my TOP Sabre FWD..  I tried tuning M05's in several different approaches (actually I have 3 M05's), but the M03 still came out on top.   I was never a big fan of the M05.. they drive fine for bashing, but just does not have the edge like the others.   It's better than the MB01 though in FWD setting.

[alvinlwh]

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[Kowalski86]

1 hour ago, Willy iine said:

From my experience M03 can be tuned to be very competitive against others including my TOP Sabre FWD..  I tried tuning M05's in several different approaches (actually I have 3 M05's), but the M03 still came out on top.  

From my reading, a handful of M-chassis racers prefered the M03. I think it comes down to it being easier to work on, less screws so less weight, and being more front heavy. The M05 is more balanced, which leads to more wheelspin.

@alvinlwhAnytime, I wish that those companies made "rally" M chassis, so their race kits but lifted just a little bit for asphalt.

[alvinlwh]

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[Andreas W]

10 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

 

@alvinlwhAnytime, I wish that those companies made "rally" M chassis, so their race kits but lifted just a little bit for asphalt.

Actually you get the M210 as rally. Then in 4x4 and I have only seen it as RTR. When I look at it you are probably better off getting the M210R and buy rally tyres for it at the same time. It looks low and the pinion and spur are exposed. I can measure the ground clearance on mine tomorrow. I think I remember it being around 7mm, which is good enough for a stone free parking lot. Mine still looks pristine after thousands of laps of postal racing. 

 

Edit: The Carten has 5mm ground clearance. For comparison the M-08 has 8mm and the M-05 8mm front and 11mm rear. As you can see the underside still looks untouched after a lotof use since July. 

[Kowalski86]

15 minutes ago, Andreas W said:

Actually you get the M210 as rally. Mine still looks pristine after thousand of laps of postal racing. 

Ah that one, I didn't know that the M210 was mini size. I've been impressed with how consistently well its done in the postal races.

[technics]

Both xpress and Carten offer incredible value for entry price. About 100$ +\-wherever you are. They do not come with bodywork or any electrics just a roller, or maybe a slider. But you get a modern open chassis which is a pleasure to work on and gear to your needs, sometimes already with aluminum bits, plastics are of higher grade quality too. I have multiple xpress and I’m very impressed and recommend checking out.

Xpress XM1S, 17,5 brushless
Maybe an unfair comparison used vs. new but here’s my marketplace find from a few years ago. I cleaned it up added my own body, soldering, wheels but it came with electrics and assembled. It’s priced equivalent of buying a new traditional M chassis and electrifying. 

 

[JimBear]

Great answers - thank you all, mentioned or not!

@Andreas W - I've "seen" a Carten M210 FWD in a webshop (190 euros) - don't know if it is leftover stock, but Carten shows it too on their homepage. I was thinking that you were using one of these in the postal racing.

@alvinlwh - great stuff - I'll have a read and see what's what. Thank you!

@technics - beautiful as usual!

Why I am asking specifically about fwd versions is that I like the M03, and I am intrigued by why some people think fwd is nothing for an RC car.

[Andreas W]

52 minutes ago, JimBear said:

Great answers - thank you all, mentioned or not!

@Andreas W - I've "seen" a Carten M210 FWD in a webshop (190 euros) - don't know if it is leftover stock, but Carten shows it too on their homepage. I was thinking that you were using one of these in the postal racing.

 

Why I am asking specifically about fwd versions is that I like the M03, and I am intrigued by why some people think fwd is nothing for an RC car.

I have the 4WD version M210R Plus. Nicely hopped up out of the box,  with only alu steering with bearings left to upgrade if you ask me. The Plus has a spool in the front. Now in hindsight I see that I probably would have been better off with either 2 ball diffs or a gear diff in the front at least. On tight corners,  like on the current Postal racing-track, it's turn radius simply is too large. On less twitchy tracks it is a dream. The acceleration and feels of control with brushless and 4WD was a gamechanger for me. 

 

 

The fwd version is simpler equipped, with plastic shocks and gear. Still good Valle for the money. Tonisport and RC Kleinkram have superb parts support. I have only used the first, though. 

 

Fwd was good for me to change my driving style. I am a basher and has always loved sliding about with buggies. Fwd learned me to go smooth around corners,  to make careful and adequate steering inputs and first and foremost throtle control.  When I later got the XV-01 and adapted the same driving style the lapcount in the Postal Racing improved directly. 

[alvinlwh]

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[alvinlwh]

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[Willy iine]

2 hours ago, JimBear said:

Great answers - thank you all, mentioned or not!

Why I am asking specifically about fwd versions is that I like the M03, and I am intrigued by why some people think fwd is nothing for an RC car.

 

FWD has it limits due to its traction issue when there is less than ideal grip.. It's literally a momentum car where it takes forever vs 4WD to get up to speed.. and once you get that momentum going, the goal is to maintain that momentum as much as one can.   On high traction tracks that gap vs 4WD is significantly reduced as expected and I think FWD can compete well open class.. the issue becomes traction roll due to the M03's physically tall shape... and add a tall body like the Mini Cooper and you'll think you came to the track to play bowling.    I run Mini Cooper bodies because I like the shape..

My tiny driving space only has decent traction so I chose to drive my 4WD m-chassis more than my M03.   If you ever have a chance to drive something like the XM1S, I recommend trying it because it should demonstrate how superior it is vs FWD m-chassis.   Xpress has been making super performing m-chassis since the 90's.   

 

[Vertigo35]

Here is another 4wd m-chassis, pretty rare these days but pretty irresistible (to me at least ). Atomic-RC VMII.