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Jonny Eff

Dt03 Springs and tyres

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Hey guys.

Did a search but can't find the info I was looking for.

I'm looking to put new springs on my Racing Fighter and was looking at dt03 springs. I found the Tamiya 53440 ones https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tamiya-53440-On-Road-Tuned-Hard-Spring-Set-TA05-TA06-TA07-TT02D-M05-M06-M07-/392988475917?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

but it says on-road and lists them for touring cars. Are they right? 

Alternatively I saw a suggestion for df03, but am leaning towards dt03 purely on a cost issue. Every penny counts.🤣🤣

Tyres? I'm currently after the Holy grail of a wonderful all terrain tyre. Due to lockdown I'm just bashing about locally on tarmac (village hall catpark and local tarmac pump track) and grass fields so I'm after something suitable for that.

The intention later is to get a separate set of wheels with more dirt specific tyres.

My Google skills are failing me today.

All help greatly appreciated.

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My kids use Schumacher mini pins in blue (hard) compound for general bashing. They work well on most surfaces from tarmac to grass. I believe they are available in three widths (wide rears, 4WD front and 2WD front).

Failing that Schumacher also do a block tread but we don't use that.

We use their carpet tyres on our higher performance buggies (Cactus and Cactus fusion etc) for tarmac in yellow or super grippy silver compound but they won't work on grass or dirt.

Schumacher blue compound tyres will still wear faster than Tamiya tyres because despite being the hardest compound Schumacher do, it is still softer than Tamiya tyres.... However with a silver can motor they last fine.

They are 2.2" tyres though so not sure if they would fit the racing fighter (Tamiya have a habit of not using standard sized wheels).

We just got new 2.2" wheels for all our buggies so we could fit modern, readily available and cheaper tyres. Eg. My middle daughter's DT02 uses DF03 rear wheels and Schumacher slim front race wheels (with a fastrax hex adaptor).

 

 

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11 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

My kids use Schumacher mini pins in blue (hard) compound for general bashing. They work well on most surfaces from tarmac to grass. I believe they are available in three widths (wide rears, 4WD front and 2WD front).

Failing that Schumacher also do a block tread but we don't use that.

We use their carpet tyres on our higher performance buggies (Cactus and Cactus fusion etc) for tarmac in yellow or super grippy silver compound but they won't work on grass or dirt.

Schumacher blue compound tyres will still wear faster than Tamiya tyres because despite being the hardest compound Schumacher do, it is still softer than Tamiya tyres.... However with a silver can motor they last fine.

They are 2.2" tyres though so not sure if they would fit the racing fighter (Tamiya have a habit of not using standard sized wheels).

We just got new 2.2" wheels for all our buggies so we could fit modern, readily available and cheaper tyres. Eg. My middle daughter's DT02 uses DF03 rear wheels and Schumacher slim front race wheels (with a fastrax hex adaptor).

 

 

Cheers for that.

I've been messing mountain biking for years, doing my own spannering, and the number of different 'standards' is ridiculous. Good to see my new hobby has the same issue 🤔🤣🤣

I was eyeing up those mini pins but put off by the description being for carpet. Good to hear they work on tarmac and grass so could be a winner.

All I've read says I need a 2.2 tyre, I'll double check but I like the idea of a generic wheel. That'll come in a few months I think.

I guess Covid, and probably now Brexit too, is having a detrimental effect on the availability of spares etc. All the tyres I liked the look of were only available from abroad with higher postage costs, and I worry currently about surprise import taxes.

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There are Schumacher tyres in stock at modelsport UK

Rears mini spike (blue):

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-mini-spike-rears-blue-2-2/rc-car-products/2297

Slim cut staggers (yellow) fronts:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-cut-stagger-low-profile-yellow-pr-/rc-car-products/369048

And you would need foams too:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-rear-foam-tyre-insert-med-1pr-/rc-car-products/29248

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-front-2wd-slim-foam-tyre-insert-med-1pr-/rc-car-products/32129

Although we don't generally run foams on the front when using the low profile tyres.

 

That combination should give a good all round tyre spec for all surfaces for bashing?

 

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22 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

There are Schumacher tyres in stock at modelsport UK

Rears mini spike (blue):

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-mini-spike-rears-blue-2-2/rc-car-products/2297

Slim cut staggers (yellow) fronts:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-cut-stagger-low-profile-yellow-pr-/rc-car-products/369048

And you would need foams too:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-rear-foam-tyre-insert-med-1pr-/rc-car-products/29248

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-front-2wd-slim-foam-tyre-insert-med-1pr-/rc-car-products/32129

Although we don't generally run foams on the front when using the low profile tyres.

 

That combination should give a good all round tyre spec for all surfaces for bashing?

 

Smashing. Thanks dude.

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As I say though, they will wear faster than Tamiya tyres so just be aware.

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Don't get the onroad springs. They're too short and they won't fit the rear. IME the DT03 front springs are fine, you just need stiffer rears.  Get Core Rc CR188 2.6 springs. They fit straight on and work great. 

The front wheels will fit 2.2" slim tyres no problem, but the rears are an odd Tamiya 2.15" size, so 2.2" tyres peal off and don't really fit well. Schumacher do cheap 2.2" buggy rear wheels:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-rear-wheels-hex-black-off-road-pr/rc-car-products/379711

In my experience even Minipins wear out very quickly on tarmac. It just wrecks proper offroad tyres. I have some of the Schumacher RT1 rear tyres in green compound on some spare wheels which are great for tarmac running. They don't have tonnes of grip like the stickier B30 version, so you get still slide the car around and have a bit of fun with it:

https://www.racing-cars.com/road-and-track-rt1-rear-green-pr-u6614?returnurl=%2fsearch%3fq%3drt1

Again, you'll need foam inserts and 2.2" wheels. 

I run Schumacher yellow minispikes rear on most of my buggies, but I only ever run them on grass or astroturf. If you do that they last ages and are really good. 

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Thanks again Thunder. 

My main driving at the moment is a mix of tarmac and grass, neither one or t'other so I'll have to compromise. I reckon I'll get those mini spikes and accept they'll wear out quicker. The Boy seems to prefer running on grass, and it slows the car down for him so it's double benefit.

Mind you, I'll have a Mad Bull built soon for him to bash about with so he'll stop abusing my Fighter!

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Using the DF03 wheels we find we don't need to glue the blue compound mini spikes (or our yellow compound full spikes) which means swapping tyres is easy and cheap. The only tyres we currently glue are the very grippy silver compound carpet tyres because they just pull right off the first time you touch the throttle LOL (Silver can powered buggies don't have the torque or performance to require gluing in our experience)

One thing worth mentioning, if you do order some new rear Schumacher race wheels be aware they have thicker centres than Tamiya wheels so you may need to use a slimmer hex and a serrated flanged nut instead of the original Tamiya nyloc otherwise you may find that you are 2mm short of thread on the axle to engage the nyloc. Not always the case, seems to differ by buggy. My daughters DT02 fits Schumacher wheels with no mods but my thundershots needed the thinner hexes and flanged nut.

This is my daughters DT02 using DF03 rear wheels, Schumacher slim 2WD fronts (on hex adaptors), Schumacher mini spiked fronts (green) and full spiked rears (yellow) - all non glued and no issues even running a 19T Reedy and a 7.6v HV shorty LiPo.

dt02_grass.thumb.jpg.2a8a50035825c7126b7eb45736cee6ad.jpg

 

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Thinking about this, it may be cheaper to buy a set of rear tarmac biased tyres and a set of grass tyres and swap when needed. That way you are not compromising and the tyres will last alot longer? Over a year it will probably be cheaper or certainly no more expensive as you won't have to replace worn out tyres as often.

It is what we tend to do on most of our cars. In our case we buy bags of ten Schumacher wheels for £20 and have various tyres fitted. We then fit a set to suit conditions.

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Thanks Mud. I'll bear the fitment in mind.

I've not had to glue my tyres currently and had no issues so hopefully that'll continue. Until I end up buying a bigger motor. I can see where this is going! 🤣🤣

Those tyres were cheaper than I was expecting so I've ordered a pair of wheels too as I was going to do so at some point anyway.

I think eventually I'll use your idea of multiple wheels with different tyres hanging around. Makes perfect sense. For the moment though, I'll stick with the mini spikes as every trip out involves about 50/50 tarmac and grass. We'll see how Lockdown progresses and when I can go different places.

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5 hours ago, mud4fun said:

Schumacher slim 2WD fronts (on hex adaptors)

Hi, can you please tell me what adapter you are using please ?

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20 minutes ago, nicksincrc said:

Hi, can you please tell me what adapter you are using please ?

Yeah, we use the fastrax one from Modelsport. 

Fastrax Aluminium Front Wheel 12mm Hex Adaptors with Bearings (2) - Blue FAST0177B (modelsport.co.uk)

BUT WARNING/CAVEAT: I replaced the cheap supplied 850 bearings with quality ones AND I had to use a standard 5mm plain washer behind the adaptor and a shim between adaptor and nyloc nut. I also had to drill out the centres of the wheels to 5.1mm clearance to fit over the axle. I then applied a thin smear of grease to the washers and shims. I tightened the nut fully until the wheel would not move, then backed it off a 1/4 turn at a time until the wheel rotated smoothly but there was near zero side to side play.

The result was perfectly smooth rotation, no wobble or play when using the Schumacher hex drive front slim 2WD race wheels (as shown in the pic of the DT02 above). The DT02 took part in the postal racing and with the wheels and tyres fitted did pretty good against some much more powerful, high end, race bred buggies! :) (it has done about 300 laps with the adaptors in place and no issues yet)

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I've found the Schumacher blocks (blue) to be the best all rounder. They are a 2" tyre, but fit on 2.2" rears. (4wd fronts fit, but need the tyre lip trimmed slightly)

They're never going to be as good as a dedicated tyre for the surface though. Tarmac I use the - Schumacher Venoms, for short dry grass - Schumacher Darts or mini pins (yellow - softer than the blue compound, but more grip) and for damp grass - Ballistic Greens.

You've not said why you want differnet springs, but swapping out the oil to heavier or thinner will change the way the shock reacts too.

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22 hours ago, mud4fun said:

 

BUT WARNING/CAVEAT: I replaced the cheap supplied 850 bearings with quality ones AND I had to use a standard 5mm plain washer behind the adaptor and a shim between adaptor and nyloc nut. I also had to drill out the centres of the wheels to 5.1mm

5.1mm is a precise size , what did you use to drill that ?

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3 minutes ago, nicksincrc said:

5.1mm is a precise size , what did you use to drill that ?

A drill :)

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LOL, sorry I was joshing with you.

The main point was that the hole needs to be slightly bigger than 5mm so the wheel rotates smoothly and doesn't bind on the axle but not so big the wheel can rattle around too much. :)

Edit: in my case I used an old 5.2mm drill but the TiCN coating is worn off and the drill is well used. The result was a 5.1'ish hole which seems perfect. Sorry I should have made that clear in original post.

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11 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

I've found the Schumacher blocks (blue) to be the best all rounder. They are a 2" tyre, but fit on 2.2" rears. (4wd fronts fit, but need the tyre lip trimmed slightly)

They're never going to be as good as a dedicated tyre for the surface though. Tarmac I use the - Schumacher Venoms, for short dry grass - Schumacher Darts or mini pins (yellow - softer than the blue compound, but more grip) and for damp grass - Ballistic Greens.

You've not said why you want differnet springs, but swapping out the oil to heavier or thinner will change the way the shock reacts too.

Thanks dude.

Always good to get extra tyre choices. No doubt there's a fair degree of personal preference involved. I'll end up with tyres everywhere I can tell! At least they're smaller than my piles of bike tyres!

I wasn't keen on the way the shock was operating out of the box. On a flat table when I push the back of the car down, it was barely moving at all back up and seemed to do the same whilst driving.

I added clips in to try to raise the ride height but didn't change much. Then I went to a tarmac pump track and the car smacked the tail on the ground landing every jump, regardless of size. So much so that the motor bolts came loose which ended the play.

So plan is new springs to sort the rebound. I've moved the lower spring position inbound to try to raise the ride height and tonight I put in some thicker oil to try to stiffen the damping to prevent/reduce the bottoming out.

I know a bit about suspension from mountain biking, and I adore fettling so don't mind trying things, playing to see if they work and changing if necessary.

I've gone for a wholesale change and then make tweaks back towards original setup plan.

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Exactly my experience with mine. Get the stiffer springs and put the lighter oil back in. Much better. 

I also ran the CAT Blocks on mine for a while too, front and rear. They were good all rounders and they fit the stock wheels. Might have a winner there. This is my DT03 with the CAT Blocks fitted to stock wheels. 

20170426_201515

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Jonny Eff said:

At least they're smaller than my piles of bike tyres!

And easier to hide!! 😂

9 minutes ago, Jonny Eff said:

I know a bit about suspension from mountain biking

I think I've commented on another of your threads!! 🙄.

I'd get a couple of bottles of shock oil, they're under £4 , and at 60ml ,you get a fair few shock fills out of a bottle. I don't know what the stock oil weight is, but I'd go around 450cst in the rear, so maybe 500 or 550? 

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7 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Get the stiffer springs and put the lighter oil back in. Much better

So doesn't get a bit, bouncy, with stiff springs and light weight oil? 

Scratch what I've said then!?! 🤦‍♂️

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57 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

 

I think I've commented on another of your threads!! 🙄.

Yeah, sorry. The first was a suspension setup question, this was more tyres and springs but has expanded into setup again 🤣

 

Am I right in saying the thickness of the oil controls the speed of the shock's movement? Both in and out.  So on a rough, bumpy, terrain thinner oil would let the shock move back quicker. On smoother terrain I'd want thicker oil to slow the shock down.

So on a tarmac pump track, I'd want thicker oil to smooth the landing and prevent the shock from pogoing back and losing traction?

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21 minutes ago, Jonny Eff said:

Am I right in saying the thickness of the oil controls the speed of the shock's movement?

Yes, well that and number of piston holes or hole diameter (if you found the oil a little too heavy, you could drill the piston holes from 1mm to 1.2mm etc)

 

25 minutes ago, Jonny Eff said:

So on a rough, bumpy, terrain thinner oil would let the shock move back quicker. On smoother terrain I'd want thicker oil to slow the shock down.

So on a tarmac pump track, I'd want thicker oil to smooth the landing and prevent the shock from pogoing back and losing traction?

Pretty much,

When you've rough terrain,  with big jumps, there's a trade off.

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9 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

So doesn't get a bit, bouncy, with stiff springs and light weight oil? 

Scratch what I've said then!?! 🤦‍♂️

In my experience it works great. Those kit notched pitched are fairly slow damping (roughly equivalrnt to 1 hole proper pistons IME) so there's no need to go mad with the oil. In my experimence (also frok mountain bikes) you use the springs to control ride height, and damping to control movement. I found the DT03 kit rears ro be just waaaaaay too soft. With no preload clips the car would sag more than half its travel, and lots of preload clips doesn't stihffen the spring (which is the fundamental problem) they just increase the ride height a bit. Those core rc springs aren't super stiff per se, they're just a better match for the weight of the car. They are about the same as the medium gold springs from the DF03 spring set. Added bonus is less understeer because the stiffer rear suspension doesn't fall over the moment you get any lateral weight transfer. 

That said i am definitely with you that rc cars need slower damping than a lot of kit tamiyas. In all my cva shocks i use the 1 hole pistons, but with around 400 oil. 

@Jonny Eff Your mountain bike experience does you credit, and faster damping does mean more grip on pattery stuff. The trade off with RC cars is that the piston is a simple disc with no shims, bottom out bumper or IFP like a mountain bike shock, so there is no difference between high and low speed damping and no active bottom out management, so if you need to stop the car slapling the floor hard off jumps you hage to compromise and go with stiffer damping across the board. You can't just up the high speed damping like you might on a mountain bike shock.

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