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Juhunio

TB-02R not TB? One kit, two builds

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So all that remains of this build is to pack all the Hop Up header cards and instructions into the Suspension Set box and box up all the leftovers, ready to go up into the great box repository in the sky (the loft)

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Yup, that's the final step of this build.

Except for one, small, tiny thing....:ph34r:

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With so many Hop Ups and different parts used, particularly the Suspension set, damper set and all the hex-head screws, there were A LOT of leftovers. 

Like, A LOT.

In terms of hardware, the only kit parts I used were the suspension pins, diff screws and plates, bearings, kingpins and a couple of turnbuckles. I had a spare set of diff screws, some turnbuckles and a few bearings in the spares box...

In terms of plastics, I used the chassis, bumper, A parts and K parts, and off the M-tree I only used M5 (the steering link), but I've got a plan to free that up. The kit came with a full spare set of spur, ring and prop gears...

So, it struck me that, if I could find a few bits and bobs....

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I would have everything I needed for...

SON OF TB!

I was able to use a positive credit card balance (no, I don't know how that happened either) to cover most of the £58 costs, so in the end I only had to shell out an extra £22 to get everything (remember, this is hobby-maths, not real maths)

Just waiting for the suspension pins and diff plates to turn up from Poland and I'll get cracking on an actual box-standard TB-02!

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21 hours ago, Juhunio said:

So all that remains of this build is to pack all the Hop Up header cards

OMG, I thought about all the cool Hop Up header cards I’ve kept today! We should start a new SIG Header Card Options club, Lol. I wonder if they are more valuable if the staples are surgically removed with an xacto blade #11, :huh:

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Thank you for the guidance @Juhunio @studioRS  @TurnipJF. Here is my mostly stock TB02, with TRF dampers. Have to say it was a very enjoyable build. Even the stock components seem like pretty good quality. 
 

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On 3/4/2021 at 3:05 PM, Room335 said:

Thank you for the guidance @Juhunio @studioRS  @TurnipJF. Here is my mostly stock TB02, with TRF dampers. Have to say it was a very enjoyable build. Even the stock components seem like pretty good quality. 
 

That looks great! I agree, it feels like a really well engineered kit, and things like bearings, adjustable suspension, metal prop shaft and hi torque servo saver as standard really add to that

One thing...it looks like you have quite a lot of wheel axle protruding beyond the wheel nut, particularly at the front. Did you use the 1mm spacer (MC4) behind the wheel? Might also be worth trying thicker hex hubs maybe, unless they increase the track too much for your body shell

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17 minutes ago, Juhunio said:

That looks great! I agree, it feels like a really well engineered kit, and things like bearings, adjustable suspension, metal prop shaft and hi torque servo saver as standard really add to that

One thing...it looks like you have quite a lot of wheel axle protruding beyond the wheel nut, particularly at the front. Did you use the 1mm spacer (MC4) behind the wheel? Might also be worth trying thicker hex hubs maybe, unless they increase the track too much for your body shell

Thank you and good catch! I actually tried several aftermarket wheels and some leftover hexes from other kits...but I couldn’t find a setup that looked right with my body. I ended up going back to the stock setup, with the spacer on the rear wheels instead. That seemed to fill out the wheelwells a little better. I’m using the Mercedes CLK DTM body.

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Did a bit of footering with the build this morning, to try out my plan to free up the steering link (M5) for 'Son of TB'

M5 was the only part I used off the M Parts tree in my build, and I didn't really want to have to buy a whole new M parts set for Son of TB just because of that one part...

I noticed in the Evo III manual (another story) that it uses a carbon fibre steering link built around a couple of 630 flanged bearings and some 0.7mm spacers.

So I wondered, would that set up work for the TB-02R?

I had some of the 0.7mm spacers already, and managed to track down the other parts:

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Then managed to remove the steering without removing the prop shaft (and essentially having to dismantle the whole car). This is it in stock form, with the M5 part screwed into the anchors in the centre of the steering linkage, and the 5mm ball connectors for the steering arms attached to the outer point

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The Evo III steering arms don't have those centre anchors, just the outer holes, and the steering link screws into those outer holes using 15mm screws with 5mm ball connector nuts on top to make the steering arm connectors. It's set up with the curved edge of the steering link forwards, so that's how I built it first...

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It didn't fit 

As with other areas of the TB-02, the front of the tub is all quite tightly engineered, and the carbon fibre steering link is too thick, and protrudes too far from the front of the steering linkage. It won't fit inside the tub, and isn't high enough to slide over the front lip

So, back to the drawing board. This time, building it as per the TB02-R manual, with the steering link screwed directly into the middle holes, and ball connectors into the outer holes. I still had it with the curved edge facing forwards, as per the Evo III manual

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It fit!! Woo hoo!!!

Except it didn't work.

The straight edge against the steering linkage massively limited the steering angle, the linkage would hardly move left or right and wouldn't really have got the car off the straight

So back to the drawing board, one last time

This time I flipped the steering link around, so the curved edge faced backwards and put the circular ends up against the steering linkage. This seemed to allow much more steering angle...

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And yup, this time it fit AND there was full travel in the steering linkage! Happy days!

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I also rebuilt the servo connection using a 42mm turnbuckle so I could also reclaim the kit 42mm rod for Son of...

Only slight glitch was that when I screwed the ball connectors in, enough protruded through to impact on the steering link and stop the movement. So I added a 0.5mm spacer under the ball connectors, which did the trick

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Here it is with the front brace back in place

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The photo also features the new blue rod ends on the stabilisers B)

So that means I have now reclaimed the M5 part and 42mm rod for Son of TB, and the CF link sitting on those bearings has also completely eradicated the slop between the alloy steering arms and the plastic steering link. Feeling pretty pleased, might treat myself to a bacon sandwich...

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While I was in there, I switched in the new blue stabiliser rod ends, just because...

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@Juhunio - Welp, the bacon sandwich sounds delish, but the EVO.III carbon fibre steering arm fitment is just brilliant! I was wondering if you were going to go down that rabbit hole.

You have inspired me (and I’m sure others following) to absolutely no end on your TB-02R build. Your photography is perfect and really each picture tells 1000+ words.

Your build looks like it’s right from the Porsche works factory. ;)

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4 hours ago, studioRS said:

@Juhunio - Welp, the bacon sandwich sounds delish, but the EVO.III carbon fibre steering arm fitment is just brilliant! I was wondering if you were going to go down that rabbit hole.

Yes it was! And yes, I did :lol:

4 hours ago, studioRS said:

You have inspired me (and I’m sure others following) to absolutely no end on your TB-02R build. Your photography is perfect and really each picture tells 1000+ words.

Your build looks like it’s right from the Porsche works factory. ;)

Thanks so much for the kind words, really properly appreciated :) 

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Quiet work day today so I took the chance to make a start in the TB-02 box-standard build

Considering it is box standard, it still feels a higher level of quality than, say, a box standard TT-02

Suspension is still built around suspension pins and mounts, though the mounts and spacers are plastic in this instance. I had to buy a new set of suspension pins and a new chassis, but everything else in this step is left overs from the original kit

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There's no choice of angle like you would get with the aluminium blocks, it's the same form (I assume a neutral 'A' block) all round

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Then onto the diffs, which have been built and tightened so the ring gear will just turn under heavy force, then run in using an electric drill before checking the tightness and running in again. In all each diff got run and re-tightened three times. The kit came with spare ring gears and I used the kit diff joints and diff balls which were leftover. I had a spare set of diff screws, springs and thrust bearings that I bought as spares for my DF03, so I used them in here which meant all I needed to buy were some new 1510 bearings 

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And then built into the gearboxes...needed two new sets of A parts for gear casings and some new 1280 bearings, but everything else (hardware, prop bevel pinion, arm mounts and damper stays) are leftovers 

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Even without the aluminium upper arm mounts and carbon damper mounts, they feel like very solid and robust units

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Steering next, and everything in this step is kit leftovers, after I was able to retrieve the M5 steering link and the 42mm servo rod.

All the kit plastic parts again feel very solid and get built around metal bearings. While not ball-bearings, it still feels super smooth

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Having seen that photo, I decided to give the bottom of the left hand linkage (rhs in the pic) a quick file down :lol:

Metal steering posts are provided as standard for those bearings to rotate around

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It all fits together in a very precise manner, and runs like silk

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I still had the original kit prop shaft, and the kit came with a full set of spare ring, prop and spur gears, so I just needed to buy a new 1060 bearing to be able to build up the prop shaft as per manual with a 58T spur

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The prop shaft and front and rear gearboxes all slotted together really easily

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I think I've decided I'm going to build this to sell as a box-fresh rolling chassis. I'll install the kit silver can but sell it with the HT servo saver as parts ready for a full electronics install, along with a build manual 

As such I didn't shim out the fore-aft float in the prop shaft, so I can leave it as originally intended 

 

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Only thing needed to build the front and rear uprights, upper arms and axles were some additional 28mm turnbuckles and a few 1150 bearings from the spares box. Everything else was leftovers; front hubs and uprights, rear hubs, bushings, dogbones, axles, turnbuckles, adjusters, shafts, kingpins, even most of the bearings! 

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The kit TB-02 uses 23mm turnbuckles for the rear upper arms compared to 28mm on the TB-02R

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The TB-02R front and rear upper arms are both longer than the TB-02, shown below for comparison. TB-02R above TB-02, both rear arms above both front

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Motor, motor mount and 19T pinion were all leftovers, and I had a clean motor plate in the spares box so the motor install was pretty straightforward

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Then on with the front and rear gearcovers that the TB-02R didn't use, and the kit heat sink which was replaced with a blue one on the 02R

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The gear covers do make everything feel that bit more secure and protected than the relatively open 02R

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1 hour ago, Room335 said:

Great pics @Juhunio! Feeling sad that my TB-02 is already built :(

It is a lovely kit to build isn't it? I'm a big fan 

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44 minutes ago, Juhunio said:

It is a lovely kit to build isn't it? I'm a big fan 

I love the TB series cars in general.  They have all been pretty easy to work on and sturdy cars.  

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@Juhunio @Room335 - The TB-02R, TB-03 is the era of wonderful kits from Tamiya. Many parts are interchangeable with the TB-EVO.III and some parts with the TB-EVO.IV (I have TB EVO IV diff gears and output shafts for my TB-02R tribute). I started on my TB-02R tribute kit the other day and it really is quite nice how it goes together.

@Juhunio Ok, have to confess, this was my first time at this and... there is something magical about pre-threading an M3 hole in the plastic parts with a tap. It is utterly so satisfying having the socket hex head bolt go in with your fingers, then snug down with a hex wrench without any plastic deformation at all. No more fighting getting the self tappers in correctly! Thanks, I needed your thread and application of socket hex head bolts to get me kicked off on this. I will NEVER build another Tamiya kit without this process. Side benefit, it takes longer! Too satisfying =)

So, with that in note, I'm going to have to buy another TT-02 chassis tub and rebuild my TT-02R Audi R8 LMS I raced in the TCS series finals. I had the pinion gear / stone pebble / spur gear problem while racing – side consequences were the rear gear cover had to come off and on so many times the holes from the kit self tappers are all tapped out.

 

 

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17 hours ago, studioRS said:

Ok, have to confess, this was my first time at this and... there is something magical about pre-threading an M3 hole in the plastic parts with a tap. It is utterly so satisfying having the socket hex head bolt go in with your fingers, then snug down with a hex wrench without any plastic deformation at all. No more fighting getting the self tappers in correctly! Thanks, I needed your thread and application of socket hex head bolts to get me kicked off on this. I will NEVER build another Tamiya kit without this process. Side benefit, it takes longer! Too satisfying =)

Excellent! I agree, it is a satisfying extra step and helps prolong the whole build process which is a bonus!

17 hours ago, studioRS said:

 

So, with that in note, I'm going to have to buy another TT-02 chassis tub and rebuild my TT-02R Audi R8 LMS I raced in the TCS series finals. I had the pinion gear / stone pebble / spur gear problem while racing – side consequences were the rear gear cover had to come off and on so many times the holes from the kit self tappers are all tapped out.

Enjoy :) I recently managed to track down a brand new Audi R8 LMS body kit which I am very much looking forward to pairing with a TT-02 Type S build later in the year 

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Bit of a birthday-induced hangover this morning, so I took some time out for damper therapy!

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It's one of my favourite steps of any build, the repetitive process is quite calming! As usual these were built up to the point they had oil in and then left to rest for an hour to get all the air out before adding the seal and lid. They all ended up with a very satisfyingly quick and consistent rebound before adding the springs and retainers 

Then on with the wheel hubs, which are just about the only major concession to budget in the kit; plastic hex hubs rather than aluminium, and pin rather than clamp type. I think it's pretty much the only part that would warrant an upgrade straight off the bat, the rest of the kit is all good.

Wheel spacer on the front:

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Straight fit on the rear

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Wheels and tyres are as per the Mercedes CLK-DTM kit (58310). I would love to get hold of one of the many variants of the CLK-DTM body shells, but there don't seem to be any out there.

The wheels came cheap from eBay, the slick tyres and inserts were left over from something else

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And with the dampers and wheels on, it's time for the first look at the chassis in 'car' form

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One day I'm going to build myself some kind of diorama to set these full length shots in. One day...

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Finally, on with the bumpers and body posts. All of these parts had to be sourced new; K parts, N Parts, plastic bumper, urethane bumper...making this the most costly stage of the 'Son of...' build 

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And that's the build finished. Again!

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A few little points of comparison next to the TB-02R...

The 02R track is a little wider with an extra bit of toe-in visible from the different suspension blocks

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And the ride height is lower on the 02R (7mm on the 02R vs 12mm on the 02) due to the different damper anchor position on the CF damper stays and the TRF dampers being a good few mm shorter than the kit CVAs.

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