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Carmine A

Have any of you tried THIS TBLE-02S Circuit Board Mod - to have a SAFE Lipo Cutoff??

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The Mod I'm talking about is - Soldering a Jumper Wire and one of three different SMD Resistors,  on the underside of the PCB, just right of the micro-controller, is a ground test pin marked "G" (which isn't always visible, but it's between the two TINY SMD Resistors on the Circuit Board already.  Illustrated here.... spacer.png

Closer look.... spacer.png

An even better look (Board flipped upside down)... spacer.png

NOT MY IDEA!!!  Lane Boys RC came up with this nearly 5 Years ago. 😉 (those plucky Brits again with their extremely clever RC Electronics Hacks!!) 😜

At the end of the Wire being Soldered to the "G" Ground Pad - you Solder in between one of three SMD Resistors..... 

To get a cut-off voltage of 6V, you can add a 33 kOhm resistor in parallel.

Some people don't like to discharge their batteries all the way down to 6V; by using a 27 kOhm resistor in parallel to the existing 10 kOhm resistor they can achieve a cut-off voltage of 6.3V. 

Even Safer, by using a 22 kOhm resistor in parallel to the existing 10 kOhm resistor they can achieve a cut-off voltage of 6.6V!! 😲😳  

Apparently this WORKS. Fortunately for MOST of you who MIGHT be confused at this point, there IS a pretty descriptive Blog Page WITH a Video that's a much bigger help! 😎👍👍 

I'M GOING TO TRY IT!! Nothing much to lose...

http://laneboysrc.blogspot.com/2015/08/tamiya-tble-02s-mod-for-lipo-cut-off.html

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Yep. Pretty simple hack if you’ve got the hang of a soldering iron. as most of us have. Hardest bit is making it neat enough to get the case back together.I’ve got a handful more I plan to do this year at some point.

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55 minutes ago, toyolien said:

Surely it must be a whole lot easier just to buy a 1060 esc?

True indeed BUT when you have 4 or 5 sitting there doing nothing? I tried this,was able to solder the SMD to board ok BUT the wire to the board beat me!

There is plenty of room in the case by the way

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54 minutes ago, toyolien said:

Surely it must be a whole lot easier just to buy a 1060 esc?

Yeah, it really is easier... Even Easier and more adjustments to get a 1080.

But that's not really the point of this. Many of us probably have a small pile of TBLE-02s lying around, from the Kits that we didn't use them...

Some People can't just run out and buy a new ESC anytime they want. Those who can, that's great. 

This is for the others.

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1 minute ago, Gazzalene said:

True indeed BUT when you have 4 or 5 sitting there doing nothing? I tried this,was able to solder the SMD to board ok BUT the wire to the board beat me!

There is plenty of room in the case by the way

Amazing we basically said the same thing at the same time!

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My point wasn't to rush out and just 'buy' esc's. Rather that it would be safer to have an esc that had a proper lipo cut-off rather than risking a lipo going up in flames. I only use Lipos, and either buy kits minus the TBLE esc, OR sell them and buy an esc with a Lipo cut-off built in. That's all. I wasn't shooting anyone down for trying it though....

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4 hours ago, Carmine A said:

I did this mod to all my TBLE02s ESC and on one of my TEU104BK esc... all works flawlessly and cuts-off when it should. I did use a 22kohm SMD resistor... It will help if you have a fine tip soldering iron and maybe a magnifying glass/soldering station... 

the trick is to make sure you scrape off just enough of the coating above where the C9 pad is... when I first did it, I scraped off too much that the solder stuck to the wrong side of the PCB.. good thing it did not cause a short or anything and my ESC worked just as fine... If you really want to play it safe for the cutoff voltage, you can also use a 20kohm cylinder type resistor. there is enough space in the case to use the cylinder type if the SMD is too small for you to handle... 

 

 

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8 hours ago, toyolien said:

My point wasn't to rush out and just 'buy' esc's. Rather that it would be safer to have an ESC that had a proper lipo cut-off rather than risking a lipo going up in flames. I only use Lipos, and either buy kits minus the TBLE ESC, OR sell them and buy an ESC with a Lipo cut-off built in. That's all. I wasn't shooting anyone down for trying it though....

I was trying not to "finger point" at you or anyone specifically! 😉

Understanding that this is NO NOVICE PROJECT. I also didn't want to convey that this would be IMPOSSIBLE for all but the Seasoned Experts either! 

However, it's actually EASIER than it looks! It does require a steady Hand, Thin Soldering Iron, and likely a Magnifyer as well.

8 hours ago, burakol said:

I did this mod to all my TBLE02s ESC and on one of my TEU104BK esc... all works flawlessly and cuts-off when it should. I did use a 22kohm SMD resistor... It will help if you have a fine tip soldering iron and maybe a magnifying glass/soldering station... 

the trick is to make sure you scrape off just enough of the coating above where the C9 pad is... when I first did it, I scraped off too much that the solder stuck to the wrong side of the PCB.. good thing it did not cause a short or anything and my ESC worked just as fine... If you really want to play it safe for the cutoff voltage, you can also use a 20kohm cylinder type resistor. there is enough space in the case to use the cylinder type if the SMD is too small for you to handle... 

NICE Tip Brother!!! A 20k or 22kOhm Cylinder Resistor probably DOES fit in the Case. 😊 

I'll be realistic with myself.... 57 years old, Eyes SHOT, and Arthritis in 8 Fingers! 😖😞  The Cylinder type definitely sounds like a better choice. At least for the first attempt.

I have Soldered SMTs in N Scale Locomotives before.... But they had no risk of Lipo EXPLOSIONS!! 🔥🔥💣

NICEST part about this Mod..... Resistors of any type in this range, are FREAKING CHEAP!! 

The One thing I can't remember, because I learned it nearly 4 DECADES ago.....  Are Resistors POLARIZED like Diodes?? Or are they unidirectional? 😊  HELP!

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14 hours ago, toyolien said:

My point wasn't to rush out and just 'buy' esc's. Rather that it would be safer to have an esc that had a proper lipo cut-off rather than risking a lipo going up in flames. I only use Lipos, and either buy kits minus the TBLE esc, OR sell them and buy an esc with a Lipo cut-off built in. That's all. I wasn't shooting anyone down for trying it though....

Also not having a swipe at you. We all like to mod and customize our models ,so why stop there. If done correctly the esc works brill. Should only try if competent . Am I am pretty sure that if its done wrong you will know before the LIPO gets hurt. The wire used in the mod is very thin guage.

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9 hours ago, Carmine A said:

 

The One thing I can't remember, because I learned it nearly 4 DECADES ago.....  Are Resistors POLARIZED like Diodes?? Or are they unidirectional? 😊  HELP!

The resistors are unidirectional so you can wire it at either side... @Gazzalene is correct, a thin wire gauge is needed for the mod (preferrably a single strand wire) will be the easiest to use... however, I was able to wire an 18ga strand but not the easiest..

if you are using a cylinder type resistor, it will be much easier as there is already wire leads on both ends... just make sure to insulate the exposed leads to make sure it won't cause a short... you can heat shrink it and just leave enough on the tip... 

So far I have not encountered any issues whatsoever... I understand that there is a concern about the over discharging the battery, but  to burst into flames is highly doubtful... If any, the problem will be over discharging it... and that's when the problem starts in battery maintenance... 

for the first 2 runs with the modded ESC, I used a lipo alarm as an added precaution... and once I've confirmed that the LVC mod worked, I went away with it... 

Comparing the modded TBLE02S to a standard ESC with built in LVC (say a HW1060), once the LVC mod kicks in, the ESC will stop working (red light blinks indicting LV) altogether and it will not cycle back on, while on my HW1060, once the battery recoups and the voltage goes back up beyond the LVC limit, it will cycle on again until the voltage drops down... I hope this makes sense.. 

 

 

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I had several of the TBLE02`s doing nothing so thought, why not give it a try. Think I got 1000 ( seems like it ) SMD`s for a few £

When they arrived I did not realise how small they are, in the how to vid ,the bits seem way bigger!

Soldering the SMD went ok BUT like I said I could just not solder the a wire to the upper Resistor on the board. don't know if I removed too much varnish OR not enough.It was taking too long and getting too hot so give up as a bad job. Will connect the ESC to NiMh to see if it still works as standard.

It was a shame because like others,i just left mine still sealed in packets. Yes I know you can buy LiPo warning units,i have 2.Its just not a neat solution and depending where you are or far you are not always heard.

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25 minutes ago, Gazzalene said:

I had several of the TBLE02`s doing nothing so thought, why not give it a try. Think I got 1000 ( seems like it ) SMD`s for a few £

When they arrived I did not realise how small they are, in the how to vid ,the bits seem way bigger!

Soldering the SMD went ok BUT like I said I could just not solder the a wire to the upper Resistor on the board. don't know if I removed too much varnish OR not enough.It was taking too long and getting too hot so give up as a bad job. Will connect the ESC to NiMh to see if it still works as standard.

It was a shame because like others,i just left mine still sealed in packets. Yes I know you can buy LiPo warning units,i have 2.Its just not a neat solution and depending where you are or far you are not always heard.

if your solder is not sticking, then chances are, you have not removed enough to expose the metal part of the PCB... 

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22 hours ago, burakol said:

if your solder is not sticking, then chances are, you have not removed enough to expose the metal part of the PCB... 

Absolutely. It's also a good idea to tin the PCB first... Then you'll know it works. 😉

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Yes, I modified my kit ESC that way a couple of days ago. I did not yet have a chance to drive it into the cutoff yet, so I do not yet know how successful I was. But it is still running, so at least I have not bricked it. My soldering skills are fairly basic. The main challenge was soldering the wire to the small spot on the PCB next to the voltage divider resistors.

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1 hour ago, FuzzyFlynn said:

Yes, I modified my kit ESC that way a couple of days ago. I did not yet have a chance to drive it into the cutoff yet, so I do not yet know how successful I was. But it is still running, so at least I have not bricked it. My soldering skills are fairly basic. The main challenge was soldering the wire to the small spot on the PCB next to the voltage divider resistors.

I suggest that you run it in conjunction with using a LVC alarm to be on the safer side...

In order for me to bench test my modded ESC, I rigged an adjustable ac/dc power adapter to have a deans connector so I can plug the ESC and power it that way. On my adapter, I have a a 7.2 volt setting which I use...

Since I am using a 22kohm resistor, the ESC's LV cutoff should kick in when it drops below 6.6v. I connect a motor and a multimeter and run it that way while watching the voltage level drop and each time the voltage drops below 6.6, the ESC cuts-off... it won't cycle back on until I actually power it off/on. 

Another way to check this without connecting a motor is to check the voltage across C9, before and after soldering in a new resistor... Obviously the voltage reading will be higher before an addition resistor is put in place, and lower if you were successful in adding the resistor... 

Hope this is making sense.. 

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On 2/8/2021 at 8:31 PM, Gazzalene said:

True indeed BUT when you have 4 or 5 sitting there doing nothing? I tried this,was able to solder the SMD to board ok BUT the wire to the board beat me!

There is plenty of room in the case by the way

To be fair I haven’t tried with surface mounted resistors only the full size type and the wire was heavier gauge. Maybe I should try with smaller components 😳

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10 hours ago, lentner3 said:

To be fair I haven’t tried with surface mounted resistors only the full size type and the wire was heavier gauge. Maybe I should try with smaller components 😳

I just ordered 22KOhm Resistors, the Cylinder type. These are quite small, 1/4W units, and there's a good amount of space inside that Case. So..... I'm about to try it myself! 😉

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2 hours ago, Carmine A said:

I just ordered 22KOhm Resistors, the Cylinder type. These are quite small, 1/4W units, and there's a good amount of space inside that Case. So..... I'm about to try it myself! 😉

Make sure you post some pictures. I’ve got a feeling 6.6v cut off will be too high. I don’t think it matters if the voltage is a little lower under load. I would be inclined to go 27k ohm. I just worry about a current spike tripping the cut out prematurely. I’ve had this on my EZrun a few times but that is programmable so I tweaked the setting. Quite a few variables so really depends on your setup I guess

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This all seems to be a good idea. Strange thing is if it’s that simple why don’t Tamiya incorporate it in the first place.????

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7 minutes ago, Busdriver said:

This all seems to be a good idea. Strange thing is if it’s that simple why don’t Tamiya incorporate it in the first place.????

THE WORLD MAY NEVER KNOW..... .......

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3 hours ago, lentner3 said:

Make sure you post some pictures. I’ve got a feeling 6.6v cut off will be too high. I don’t think it matters if the voltage is a little lower under load. I would be inclined to go 27k ohm. I just worry about a current spike tripping the cut out prematurely. I’ve had this on my EZrun a few times but that is programmable so I tweaked the setting. Quite a few variables so really depends on your setup I guess

...... OK, still not going to claim I'm an expert in this sort of thing. I'm not really. 😜😂

I was talking to a couple of my Dad's Friends (Electrical and Mechanical Engineers), who have stated that the CONDITION of the Battery should be the only main concern.

The Mod Schematic looks simple and sound. Be sure to Tin BOTH ends of each Joint before Soldering. 

...... And I was told that by a small margin, old school Cylinder type Resistors actually run cooler than the SMD types.

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1 hour ago, Busdriver said:

This all seems to be a good idea. Strange thing is if it’s that simple why don’t Tamiya incorporate it in the first place.????

From what I understand, Tamiya decided to design it based on li-fe batteries as they don’t have the inherent risk thats lipos do when abused or not treated carefully.
Li-Fe has a lower cut off. Hopefully someone can confirm.

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6 hours ago, Carmine A said:

...... OK, still not going to claim I'm an expert in this sort of thing. I'm not really. 😜😂

I was talking to a couple of my Dad's Friends (Electrical and Mechanical Engineers), who have stated that the CONDITION of the Battery should be the only main concern.

The Mod Schematic looks simple and sound. Be sure to Tin BOTH ends of each Joint before Soldering. 

...... And I was told that by a small margin, old school Cylinder type Resistors actually run cooler than the SMD types.

After doing one successfully, you will be an expert... When I did one, it took me 2 hours... now, it takes me about 10-15 minutes... most of my time is taken by testing and making sure it's not shorting anything... but the actual soldering the components on the board will be a piece of cake after one mod... you got this! 

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On 2/11/2021 at 3:15 PM, burakol said:

After doing one successfully, you will be an expert... When I did one, it took me 2 hours... now, it takes me about 10-15 minutes... most of my time is taken by testing and making sure it's not shorting anything... but the actual soldering the components on the board will be a piece of cake after one mod... you got this! 

THANKS for the vote of confidence! I'll be taking at least one over this weekend. 😉

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