Next build... Subaru Brat or Sand Scorcher?

[Lukas666 39]

There seems to be a North America wide shortage of Tamiya and Kyosho RC kits. I dunno if this has to do with the 19 or what. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it? Anyway my next build I was maybe thinking of a Subaru Brat or possibly a Sand Scorcher. I think the Scorcher would be capable of much more than the Brat but maybe someone that has both can give an opinion. The Brat I’d get cause it’s so old school and such a classic but wouldn’t really make it any faster than a torque tuned or sport tuned mtr. The Scorcher is real classic too but seems to be a way more robust design with Allan heads vs sell tapping screws as well as a ton of stronger aluminum, kinda like a Kyosho. Hence it should be capable of faster speeds I would think. Probably handles better too.... two different animals really tho. Won’t be anytime soon tho as they’re both out of stock.... keep my eye out I guess.

[JennyMo 3526]

fwiw. the Brat is going to handle [a bit] better than the Scorcher - not least as the suspension is better, plus the ORV chassis of the Brat has a rear diff... but both are very old school with regard to handling and performance anyway compared to modern buggies and other off-road RC vehicles.

The SRB (Sand Scorcher/Rough Rider) chassis is far more satisfying to assemble and look at/scale appearance - being almost all cast metal, and using proper machine screws as you say - it is also surprisingly simple/quick to build too, and easy to work on should you need to adjust/repair/replace.

The ORV (Brat/Frog) chassis can be upgraded though - proper coil-spring shocks (on aftermarket towers) on the front helps to tighten up the sloppy front end, and the trailing arms at the rear offer more travel and far better compliance than the short-travel wishbone SRB rear end.

Either would be a nice vehicle to own, and both are a classic example of old-school Tamiyas - complete with really nicely detailed hard-bodies. The only issue is going to be availability - even the Scorcher re-release was 10 years ago now, and I'm not sure whether Tamiya are continuing to make either in any number now.

Personally, I'd get a Scorcher kit if you can find one... it is still the quintessential Tamiya RC car in my opinion.

Hope that helps...

Jenny x

ps. Because the wheelbases are similar, you can actually mount a Scorcher body on an ORV chassis pretty successfully (and the Brat on the SRB) should you wish, and people have done both in the past.

[JennyMo 3526]

pps. If you have a look on eBay.com, there are a handful of US retailers still with Sand Scorcher 2010s in stock - although the majority seem only to ship within the lower 48. However, I did see this one who will ship to Canada - might be worth putting in your postal code and seeing how much shipping would be?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tamiya-58452-Sand-Scorcher-2010-2WD-Off-Road-Racer-Unassembled-Kit-TAM58452-HH/143750405162?epid=2089378036&hash=item2178311c2a:g:BFIAAOSwjNdcCbda

Jx

[Raman36 1657]

My first Tamiya was the ORV Brat. No amount of money will make me buy it again. In fact I bought a Brat body but the ORV chassis belongs in purgatory. It is the most idiotic design I have ever come across.  The front speaks volumes.. whom ever designed that idiotic front “suspension system” should have performed Sepeku immediately
 

The SRB however is truly a special racing buggy. It is 100% worth all its quirks. Much is made about the lack of a differential, but yet truth be told, it’s not needed on dirt, sand, snow or grass. I should add that I have the diff for SRB and choose to use it without.  btw original ORV Brat didn’t come with a differential, only Re-re. 
 

So for me, there is no comparison. SRB all the way

[Lukas666 39]

1 hour ago, Raman36 said:

My first Tamiya was the ORV Brat. No amount of money will make me buy it again. In fact I bought a Brat body but the ORV chassis belongs in purgatory. It is the most idiotic design I have ever come across.  The front speaks volumes.. whom ever designed that idiotic front “suspension system” should have performed Sepeku immediately
 

The SRB however is truly a special racing buggy. It is 100% worth all its quirks. Much is made about the lack of a differential, but yet truth be told, it’s not needed on dirt, sand, snow or grass. I should add that I have the diff for SRB and choose to use it without.  btw original ORV Brat didn’t come with a differential, only Re-re. 
 

So for me, there is no comparison. SRB all the way

SRB is quiet a bit more money, I found the ORV either you like it or hate it.

[Jonathon Gillham 4607]

I think the ORV in Monster Beetle form is great, with the MIP diff. The Brat and Frog look a bit average though from a performance point of view (never had one, have the Monsters Beetle though).

Personally I would buy the Sand Scorcher (I don't have one but want one). The build looks much better to me and it looks like a model for the shelf which you can run sometimes. I wouldn't run either very often though. Even the Fox isn't a great runner compared to basic modern stuff.

[Willsls1 342]

Sand Scorcher

[Busdriver 6209]

BOTH!!!!!!!!! I ve had both when they first came out. Sure they both have their faults but if you run them in the envelope they were designed for they are good fun. For me as @JennyMo has said the fact that they have hard bodies is a bonus, in fact with last release of the Brat you get a lexan one as well. My Brat had a 380 motor and no diff but it was a great loose surface brasher. The Scorcher was equally at home in that environment and I believe are great on the beach. To me the biggest Achilles heel of the scorcher is the metal bits. I found that things like suspension arms had no give in them so if you hit anything they snapped. Bear in mind this was 1980 so no internet. You had two choices either try and get spares from where you bought it ( Beatties Bristol) or send a letter with a postal order to the importer who I beleive was  based in Hemel Hempstead in Herts. Could take weeks.  I have been having this conversation with myself for months but thought I'd got it out of my system. Thanks a bunch if I had to push the button on one of them it would be the Brat. The spare body fits on loads of chassis so two for the price of one or        bog off as they now say

[Toolmaker72 507]

I think the orv chassis has the most available spare parts as there as so many model variations built on it whether second hand or new.  The Brat body in the hard plastic can be made to look fantastic just as the scorcher and as already mentioned before both bodies can in essence fit both chassis’s.    For me buying parts bit by bit to build a non standard model is what interests me.  The scorcher is classic Tamiya but the orv gives a better opportunity to build something more unique.  Perhaps build a mud blaster variant of the brat with the grey chassis.  Then use the frog gearbox with the 50 tooth spur gear.  Attach the motor using the monster beetle adapter together with a 13 tooth boomerang pinion or use a grasshopper 380 motor adapter fitted to a brushless 2845 motor with a monster beetle 10 tooth pinion using the same frog gearbox internals as already mentioned for a slightly updated drive.  I’ve actually built an early fixed drive brat gearbox with a 2845 brushless motor to give that 380 motor effect and it wizzes around lovely.  Stick a 3s battery on it and it blows the socks off a standard brushed 540 😉.   

 

[Lukas666 39]

9 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

I think the ORV in Monster Beetle form is great, with the MIP diff. The Brat and Frog look a bit average though from a performance point of view (never had one, have the Monsters Beetle though).

Personally I would buy the Sand Scorcher (I don't have one but want one). The build looks much better to me and it looks like a model for the shelf which you can run sometimes. I wouldn't run either very often though. Even the Fox isn't a great runner compared to basic modern stuff.

Do a lot of folks build these to just shelf them?.... I love running them that’s the whole point isn’t it? I mean I’m not gonna lie the first wipeout I had on my lunchbox that scraped up the roof after I spent so much care in painting and decaling it kinda hurt, but as long as bodies and parts are available we should be ok. Were more parts & bodies available pre covid?.... I like the fact the Brat comes with 2 bodies that’s pretty cool. From what I’ve read both Re releases have been pretty updated. I’ll be honest I haven’t run any new RC cars of today to see if they handle miles above these legends but I’ve heard they do.... not really why you build and collect these models tho anyway. I’d gladly build the Brat or the Scorcher both are cool.... So which Tamiya or even Kyosho model would in fact handle decent and have good potential for upgraded speed without over exceeding what it was meant for but still be an 80’s retro car? 

[Jonathon Gillham 4607]

2 hours ago, Lukas666 said:

Do a lot of folks build these to just shelf them?.... I love running them that’s the whole point isn’t it? I mean I’m not gonna lie the first wipeout I had on my lunchbox that scraped up the roof after I spent so much care in painting and decaling it kinda hurt, but as long as bodies and parts are available we should be ok. Were more parts & bodies available pre covid?.... I like the fact the Brat comes with 2 bodies that’s pretty cool. From what I’ve read both Re releases have been pretty updated. I’ll be honest I haven’t run any new RC cars of today to see if they handle miles above these legends but I’ve heard they do.... not really why you build and collect these models tho anyway. I’d gladly build the Brat or the Scorcher both are cool.... So which Tamiya or even Kyosho model would in fact handle decent and have good potential for upgraded speed without over exceeding what it was meant for but still be an 80’s retro car? 

We run all our cars but some more than others. The TT02B is the one I get out when others are over as parts are cheap and easy to get. The last time my Top Force was run a kid stood on the front end and that meant parts from Hong Kong.

The Novafox understeers and even the neighbourhood kids complain it isn't very good. You don't have to get that much more modern for decent (enough) handling.

[JennyMo 3526]

Following on from my previous comment - I've had both, and still have an SRB based vehicle - although I've replaced the original chassis with my own aluminium version (and you can even buy dedicated cnc machined aluminium chassis plates for the Sand Scorcher should you wish).

As I recall I bought a Brat kit back in 2009 primarily for the chassis, to mount a [Blitzer] Beetle body on - this was before the days of the re-re Sand Scorcher of course, when an actual original 80's Sand Scorcher could cost you anything from £500-1000 on eBay - and other than the sloppy front suspension which Raman36 rather flower-ly describes above, it ran pretty smoothly and on the whole felt like a good quality runner (with full ball bearings fitted of course).

Ultimately I replaced the ORV front suspension with a complete SRB front end, which I'd suggest is probably the ultimate combination should you feel so inclined. Link to the Fro-Sco build thread: HERE

 

However, the SRB platform takes this refinement up a step again in my opinion - there is just something about the way an SRB sounds as it runs, it has a turbine like whine - it sounds (and therefore 'feels', even though you're not directly connected) smooth - like a precision machine made of metal, which of course it essential is... The steering ball joints are still a little wobbly, but under power it just feels like a high end model:

 

So my suggestion would be to buy the Sand Scorcher if you can afford it - I doubt you'll be disappointed... and even if you are, you won't be quite as disappointed as you might be having bought an ORV chassis instead ;o)

Jenny x

 

ps. It's worth noting (and searching on here) that the Brat hard body actually has an indent moulding on the underside of the rear bed to cut out - having being designed to fit over the SRB rear roll hoop - so should you really have a hankering for the Subaru after all, you could always buy the Brat body set and mount that to the SRB chassis too?

[davidwj95 152]

I really like the Brat, it's one of my favourite runners.  It's gearbox is one of the quietest I have and it has a really tight turning circle, perfect for running in the back garden. I also like how the battery is easy to change without having to remove the body even if it is a bit exposed.   The handling isn't very good by modern standards but that adds to the fun.  

I have a sand scorcher that I built up using a mixture of original and rere parts on an aluminium chassis.  It's far more impressive to look at and the metal parts give it a quality feel and weight.  I find myself being extra careful when I run this as it rolls quite easily and I dont want to damage the body.

I'd say the scorcher is the nicer model but if I wanted one for carefree running I'd choose the brat. 

 

[Toolmaker72 507]

These I built using new and used parts.  None are standard kits but all are orv chassis.  😊

[Lukas666 39]

Those are awesome... the driver in the Sand Scorcher and Brat is so cool and classic