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TVG27

Thundershot Upgrading

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I have my Thundershot that I have tinkered with for some time now. I wanted to get some thoughts on what I could do to make it more faster.

I updated the a5 part and added bearings. I took it to a hobby shop and got a dynamite esc and a 4200 nimh battery and charger.

I was thinking of adding a different motor but realized that I needed a different pinion gear as well. It still has the original 15t. The shocks are horrible so that probably needs an update.

I'm not trying to race or anything just want to have some fun with it again . Any feedback would be great and where to get the items needed. 

thank you so much!

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If you want a faster brushed motor, then something like a core rc 15t will be good and they are nice and cheap. Get a 13t 32dp steel pinion from rw racing and you are set. 

https://www.rwracing.co.uk/product/cnc-32-pitch-steel-pinions

The shocks are actually ok. Get some tamiya red o rings (50597) and green top seals (50600) and rebuild them. Get some good oil. Core rc again is good. 400cst for the rear, and i have 700cst in the front of my Thunder Dragon as the monoshock has a lot of work to do. 

Best thing you can do after that is modern 2.2" wheels and tyres with a 12mm hex conversion. 

 

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There are quite a few easy and relatively inexpensive mods you can do to a Thundershot to improve its performance and durability. I did a few of these to my 'Shot during its restomod covered in this thread:

Perhaps this may give you some ideas?

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17 hours ago, TVG27 said:

I have my Thundershot that I have tinkered with for some time now. I wanted to get some thoughts on what I could do to make it more faster.

I updated the a5 part and added bearings. I took it to a hobby shop and got a dynamite esc and a 4200 nimh battery and charger.

I was thinking of adding a different motor but realized that I needed a different pinion gear as well. It still has the original 15t. The shocks are horrible so that probably needs an update.

I'm not trying to race or anything just want to have some fun with it again . Any feedback would be great and where to get the items needed. 

thank you so much!

Just put a 2S lipo in there. It will give you more power across the discharge curve. 

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8 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

If you want a faster brushed motor, then something like a core rc 15t will be good and they are nice and cheap. Get a 13t 32dp steel pinion from rw racing and you are set. 

https://www.rwracing.co.uk/product/cnc-32-pitch-steel-pinions

The shocks are actually ok. Get some tamiya red o rings (50597) and green top seals (50600) and rebuild them. Get some good oil. Core rc again is good. 400cst for the rear, and i have 700cst in the front of my Thunder Dragon as the monoshock has a lot of work to do. 

Best thing you can do after that is modern 2.2" wheels and tyres with a 12mm 

Thanks for the reply!

Not sure what the 400cst stands for. The monoshock on mine is horrible. Has bolts in it to hold together. Do you know a good replacement?

Sorry been away from this for so long. Appreciate the help!

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6 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

There are quite a few easy and relatively inexpensive mods you can do to a Thundershot to improve its performance and durability. I did a few of these to my 'Shot during its restomod covered in this thread:

Perhaps this may give you some ideas?

Thanks I will look thru it!

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12 minutes ago, Snakehands said:

Just put a 2S lipo in there. It will give you more power across the discharge curve. 

Sorry is that better than the 4200 7.2 nimh?

Thank you!

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6 minutes ago, TVG27 said:

Thanks for the reply!

Not sure what the 400cst stands for. The monoshock on mine is horrible. Has bolts in it to hold together. Do you know a good replacement?

Sorry been away from this for so long. Appreciate the help!

The CVA monoshock operates well on the thundershot, maybe yours needs a service if it's sticking, the kit comes with tamiya soft yellow oil, standard across many kits, use that as a starting point.....I've never needed to use anything else

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I'm running 17T in my t shot with the stock 30 year old motor.  Seems to be plenty fast for me but I guess you could always want a little more.

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I was initially running 17t in mine too, with a GT Tuned motor. Top speed was excellent, acceleration not so much. It seems a lot happier now that I have fitted a 15t instead. (Carson 0.8 mod steel from Tony's Tamiya Parts.)

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I apologize for the delay in responding. Took some time to order some parts. Got some metal upgrades from rcmart. Front mount and rear mounts.

I did some research on the switching to the 2s lipo and had questions. I went to a hobby shop and they said that a brushless motor would be needed and a new esc to see a jump in speed. I already got a sport tuned 540 motor and a dynamite brushed esc. With that being said, is a 2s battery by itself sufficient?

Next question would be on suggestions for a good 2s and a charger. 

Thanks for all the input 

20210324_191038.jpg

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8 hours ago, TVG27 said:

I apologize for the delay in responding. Took some time to order some parts. Got some metal upgrades from rcmart. Front mount and rear mounts.

I did some research on the switching to the 2s lipo and had questions. I went to a hobby shop and they said that a brushless motor would be needed and a new esc to see a jump in speed. I already got a sport tuned 540 motor and a dynamite brushed esc. With that being said, is a 2s battery by itself sufficient?

Next question would be on suggestions for a good 2s and a charger. 

Thanks for all the input 

 

No offence to the model shop but they're wrong. LiPo are capable of supplying much more discharge current than a Nimh battery, which means you will accelerate a lot harder from a standing start with a LiPo. They also hold their voltage longer, which means it takes a longer for the cars top speed to drop off once you're running. They have a slightly higher nominal voltage (7.4 vs 7.2). They are also lighter than Nimh, so unless the model shop want to disprove Isaac Newtons second law of motion that force  = mass x acceleration, even having a lighter battery is going to see an improvement in acceleration. I also noticed a distinct improvement in my cars brushed motor performance going from NiMh to Lipo. I also noticed with my brushless motors that they got a loss worse if I tried using NiMh instead of Lipos.

A 2S lipo is the only sensible replacement for your 7.2V Nimh cells. 3 cell won't fit unless you want to start hacking the chassis.

For 2S Lipo, you will need to be careful that you buy a pack shaped like the old Nimh cells as the thundershot has a battery hole shaped around that cross section. The only one I know of is made by core rc. 

With regards to chargers this is an example of what to look for Overlander RC6-VSR 80watt 7A Output AC/DC LiPo Balance Charger 0003129 (modelsport.co.uk) I've not used it, the one I have which is great, is no longer manufactured. What you're looking for is a multi chemistry balance charger. This will allow you to charge LiPo and Nimh with the one charger. A balance charger is essential for Lipo to safely charge them. When I charge mine, I always use a charge rate thats around 50% of the capacity rating (So for a 4mah battery I would charge at no more than 2 amps) and then the cells don't get hot whilst charging.

 

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5 hours ago, MadInventor said:

No offence to the model shop but they're wrong. LiPo are capable of supplying much more discharge current than a Nimh battery, which means you will accelerate a lot harder from a standing start with a LiPo. They also hold their voltage longer, which means it takes a longer for the cars top speed to drop off once you're running. They have a slightly higher nominal voltage (7.4 vs 7.2). They are also lighter than Nimh, so unless the model shop want to disprove Isaac Newtons second law of motion that force  = mass x acceleration, even having a lighter battery is going to see an improvement in acceleration. I also noticed a distinct improvement in my cars brushed motor performance going from NiMh to Lipo. I also noticed with my brushless motors that they got a loss worse if I tried using NiMh instead of Lipos.

A 2S lipo is the only sensible replacement for your 7.2V Nimh cells. 3 cell won't fit unless you want to start hacking the chassis.

For 2S Lipo, you will need to be careful that you buy a pack shaped like the old Nimh cells as the thundershot has a battery hole shaped around that cross section. The only one I know of is made by core rc. 

With regards to chargers this is an example of what to look for Overlander RC6-VSR 80watt 7A Output AC/DC LiPo Balance Charger 0003129 (modelsport.co.uk) I've not used it, the one I have which is great, is no longer manufactured. What you're looking for is a multi chemistry balance charger. This will allow you to charge LiPo and Nimh with the one charger. A balance charger is essential for Lipo to safely charge them. When I charge mine, I always use a charge rate thats around 50% of the capacity rating (So for a 4mah battery I would charge at no more than 2 amps) and then the cells don't get hot whilst charging.

 

Thank you so much!

I had my doubts as well as I did not read anything saying to go brushless 

I am actually ok with hacking the chasing. With that being said, what #mah would you recommend. I saw that venom has 2000 7.4. Wasn't sure if it would be better to have a 4000 like the core rc. 

Appreciate the help!

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27 minutes ago, TVG27 said:

Thank you so much!

I had my doubts as well as I did not read anything saying to go brushless 

I am actually ok with hacking the chasing. With that being said, what #mah would you recommend. I saw that venom has 2000 7.4. Wasn't sure if it would be better to have a 4000 like the core rc. 

Appreciate the help!

Like the old batteries, the bigger the capacity, the longer the battery will last, so 4000 will last longer, but I suspect will also be slightly heavier. You also need to look at the C rating (Discharge current). The C rating is the multiple of the capacity at which the battery will discharge. So, for example, a 4000mAh pack with a 30c discharge rate can supply a constant current of 120amps. These are what I use for my 3 cell packs and they have quite a low C rating, but they're overkill in most situations, as most moderately good brushed ESCs have a max 60amp discharge rate.  I usually found that I crashed the car or terminated the transmission before the battery went flat using these (But that was with high rpm brushless systems). 

The core RC pack I have is 4000mah and I usually get bored before it goes flat, but then I'm just messing about in the garden and not racing hard. Personally myself I would go for the Core pack, it's better to have the capacity and not use it than buy the lower capacity one and wish you'd spent a bit more.

 

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Thanks for the follow up. So being in the US, the core rc is unavailable.

So two options are 

Venom 20c 2s 4000mah 7.4 lipo

Or 

Venom 35c 2s 2000mah 7.4 lipo

I have a 60am dynamite esc currently 

Which one would you pick? I just plan on using it occasionally. More to just update and upgrade and make it faster of course.

I did order a charger as you suggested. Similar to what you posted and thanks for all the good info

Thanks so much

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If it was me I'd go with the 4000mah battery, but that just my personal preference not knowing what each one costs. The 4000mah gives a slightly better discharge rate, so if you're pulling 60A with the ESC and motor you're that little bit further away from the packs'  max discharge rate.

 

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Thanks 

It was 22 vs 40. I ordered the larger one and then realized that I needed to change the connectors now. Ordered some dean connectors and battery bag. Hopefully by Saturday I will have some updates 

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Sorry for the long delay.

Had to go back and forth to get some shocks that worked in the front. 

My parts from rc mart came in so I changed the front shock tower, got an upgraded a5, and changed the rear shock tower.

Replaced the tamiya connector with some deans connector (what a difference in response now!)

Old MRC Top Gun wasn't responding so I got a radiolink rc6s v2. Great remote with gyro and lots of extra buttons and customization options 

Installed a light bar on the spoiler.

Upgraded the coat hanger shaft with the tamiya propeller shaft. 

Motor is the Tamiya sport tuned with a 13t pinion

Max speed gotten has been around 19 with 4.0 NIMH

I had purchased a venom lipo but have been scared to charge and try it. 

Thanks for all the help!

 

 

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So I finally had a chance to put the 2s lipo battery in today. I had a 15t pinion installed. I had timed the nimh top speed about 20. The lipo top speed was a disappointing 22. Does that seem right?
I did the charge the battery yesterday for the first time. Started to rain so I had to wait till this afternoon though. Doesn't seem right that the lipo and nimh results were that close. Thoughts that battery is defective ? Suggestions ?

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The battery doesn’t change the top speed by much as it only has 0.2 more voltage. It will only be more easy to handle and less voltage drop towards the end —> more fun. If the charger shows no error and the battery kept its shape, then it is fine.

The motor will change the top speed and power (don’t forget the right gearing). I put an 23t Super Stock BZ in my Fire Dragon (see rere forum).

You can also go for brushless motors up to 10.5t (I guess), but then you will maybe need a new esc too.

What is your wish with this car? Do you want a basher, a fast offroad buggy or a high speed straight line street racer?

Please post more pictures of your car (without body), especially of the electronics. 

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Newbie on Tamiya Club but I've been in the hobby for decades, including competitive racing in the 6-cell days and now, with LiPos. I'm not shocked that LiPo battery didn't make a huge difference. While they're capable of significantly more current draw, if you don't have a motor DEMANDING that draw, the difference will be negligible.

To put some numbers to it, if your motor pulls 10 amps and a NiMH battery can provide 9 --> You 'lose' 1 amp of performance (and the LiPo upgrade doesn't get you much). But if the motor can pull 2X the amperage the NiMH can deliver, then a LiPo will make a bigger difference.

If you're opposed to buying a new motor (even a basic 27T will be night and day over the silver-can) you could always go up a tooth or two.

The nice thing about brushed motors is they're not *as* sensitive to overheating as brushless motors are.

Have fun!

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Thanks for the reply. Here are some pics of the interior. So I have a 15t paired with the tamiya sport tuned. Didn't really want to brushless as I'm not sure how the car would hold up. I think a mix of high speed straight and off road would be what I aiming for. It is more fun with the lipo. I think with a 13t would be overly peppy.

I'll go back and the forum for the fire dragon pair up. Thank you both

20210504_143817.jpg

20210504_143859.jpg

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On 5/4/2021 at 8:35 AM, Unknown Driver said:

Newbie on Tamiya Club but I've been in the hobby for decades, including competitive racing in the 6-cell days and now, with LiPos. I'm not shocked that LiPo battery didn't make a huge difference. While they're capable of significantly more current draw, if you don't have a motor DEMANDING that draw, the difference will be negligible.

To put some numbers to it, if your motor pulls 10 amps and a NiMH battery can provide 9 --> You 'lose' 1 amp of performance (and the LiPo upgrade doesn't get you much). But if the motor can pull 2X the amperage the NiMH can deliver, then a LiPo will make a bigger difference.

If you're opposed to buying a new motor (even a basic 27T will be night and day over the silver-can) you could always go up a tooth or two.

The nice thing about brushed motors is they're not *as* sensitive to overheating as brushless motors are.

Have fun!

Any suggestions on a good brushed 27t motor then? I thought that the tamiya was a 27t, but looking it up it maybe a 23t. Know I am wondering if the original silver can is faster than the sport tuned. Thanks for all the help

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Silver Can < Sport-Tuned < UGT-Tuned < Super Stock

I would pair the Super Stock with a 13 teeth steel pinion and then look how it performs. It should be really fast. Again: watch temperatures.

 My experience with the Boomerang (UGT-Tuned motor, 19400 U/min) vs. Top Force Evo (SuperStock BZ motor) is that both motors are very strong and fast, with the upper hand having the Super Stock (it is 23t). 

The fastest motor of the Super Stock series is the RZ with its 27500 U/min. I am just not sure if it is suited for a 4wd buggy. Tamiya only mentions the BZ (26500 U/min) and TZ (22500 U/min) for offroad. Tamiya says Super Stock and UGT-Tuned all have the same torque (49mNm).

I never used a Sport Tuned (18500 U/min) in an 4wd offroad buggy. It is „ok“-fast in my FF-01. So I don‘t think it would impress you in a Thunder Shot chassis.

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Agree with WTCC5's analysis, but I'll add a "different" option to consider...

If you aren't a purist and have love for 90s/2000s vintage stuff, there seem to be a fair amount of used Trinity and Reedy brushed motors out there (ebay, etc). Any of the Trinity motors (Midnight, Paradox, P2K, Monster, Green Machine III, etc) will run real strong. I'll offer the caveat that you will want to do your due dilligence and make sure the motor isn't whipped. 

There are also some 'generic' brushed motors on ebay that can be had brand new and very cheap. I have a 27T motor in my Blackfoot I paid $20 for (with shipping) and it came with bearings and decent brushes. Runs SUPER strong, even geared up.

Play around and see what you like, I need to make a point of trying out some of the Tamiya motors since my OCD appreciates a Tamiya motor in a Tamiya vehicle. LOL

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