Driver aids, would they be welcome?

[DayRider 311]

I have never tried them but I know that people use giros to help with drifting.

That got me thinking, would any other driving aid be welcome? I mean things like launch control. Now that most of us are using digital gear, do you think it's about time they could expand in this? And if so what would you like?

[isomer1 175]

From a development side I think they're awesome. That's where you see the big tech leaps for driver safety and performance in "real" vehicles. From the racing perspective I imagine it sets up an arms race that really limits the small players. I was under the impression most if not all aids were banned in organized races to keep the field competitive.

To some extent the punch or impulse settings on the ESC act as a crude launch control. I've wondered about speed-sensitive steering.

I'm surprised we don't see more crossover from the arduino/maker crowd for RC controls. Maybe it's out there and I just don't google well.

[Matty36 267]

Most transmitters have an ABS feature, which does work but is tricky to set up easily.

[markbt73 5311]

No. Aren't RTRs bad enough? You want the thing to drive itself too?

[TurnipJF 9186]

7 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

No. Aren't RTRs bad enough? You want the thing to drive itself too?

I can imagine that it would make them more appealing to the model train crowd. Switch it on and watch it go!

[InsaneJim69 1584]

I know my Vampire Racing ESC can be programmed with various different launch settings, abs settings, TC settings as well as punch control and various other settings just buy plugging it by usb into my laptop. And that's not even new technology tbh, other makes have had that for the last 8-10 years or so. Even my old Novak Cyclone and Novak GT7 ESC used to have most of the above settings, and that was around 18 years ago now. I think some of it isn't needed tbh, launch control is impressive with the 4.5T motor and a 4wd touring car, it would just destroy most real life performance cars off the line. But abs etc is just too far imo.

James.

[No Slack 454]

Some time ago I tried a cheap gyro to see how/if it works. And it works. I use the gyro in a TL01. The effect is dialed  in very mild only to help with driving in straight lines. I am sure at some time the gyro will be removed again.

[LeftyAl 164]

I don't mind driving aids. I tried the ABS setting on a FlySky transmitter, got bored with it and learnt to drive without it. Was an absolute pain to calibrate some ESCs with it on and you needed to remember to disable first.

I've used the gyro setting before for a bit, then dialed it right down to nothing as I got better.

Programmable ESCs have been around for ages. I have an old school  GM Racing Pro (must be 18-20 yrs old now)  that has a turbo function which is really just a delay in applying full power. Helps to get the car going then unleashes the power with less chance of losing traction.

Some of the programming modern ESCs can do is awesome like  punch, braking strength, power curves and variable timing.

So if it helps you improve your skills then I am all for it. 

I am moving my gear towards less is more these days. Simple ESCs with little features and the same with transmitters.  

If they are treated as training aids, it may help to bring more people to the hobby, just like RTR did.

[Fabia130vRS 2098]

9 hours ago, markbt73 said:

No. Aren't RTRs bad enough? You want the thing to drive itself too?

 

good one.

 

but my club buddy’s drive 1/5 Petrol scale touring. They are only RWD and really need the ABS function while 1:10 cant really be bothers as they are too light. I used a MST 2.0 LSD gyro it is advertised to be found in cars like toyota or suzuki and mitsubishi. For a F1 car it was great to drive. On a 4wd touring car it did feel awkward. Never tried on a fwd as it is not necessary 

[Mad Ax 9306]

I've seen various driver aids on various speedos, I've never been sure exactly how good they are (I wonder if on cheap ESCs they are just gimmicks).  In all seriousness, how much do you need?  I understand that with a large scale RWD you might want ABS if you don't have braking on the front wheels, but otherwise it seems pointless for general bashing.

Obviously gyros are essential for RWD drift.  When I first started drifting I asked why a gyro was necessary - the response from one of the UK's top drivers was "Yoda, I am not."

For racing, anything that gives a competitive edge will get used.  When the single-minded aim is to win, racers will use whatever the rules permit to gain an advantage.  How much of an advantage it gives is down to the driver, car and conditions - it might be enough to get a second-place driver into the top spot, or it might allow a driver to run a more aggressive setup.

The question has come up in the Iconic Cup before, which is supposed to be near-stock vintage touring racing.  There's a control motor for most classes, and there has been talk about a control ESC at least from some people who feel that not having access to the latest driver aids puts them at a disadvantage.  But as you can now get radios with driver aids (even my low-budget Turnigy GT-5 has a gyro built into the receiver), even a control ESC wouldn't level the playing field.  Insisting that every racer buys a control motor, control ESC and control radio would void the point of keeping it competitive for all pockets.

The Arduino comment is an interesting one - I'm sure there's loads that can be done.  My Arduino MFU project had variable throttle profiles to simulate inertia from towing a heavy load, but it didn't have any feedback from the motor, is was just based on time.  If you could read EMF from the motor to determine its RPM you could do some crazy stuff.  My solution could read 8 channels from a single PPM input so you could easily use multiple inputs to simulate a more realistic driving experience (sequential shifting, braking force, switched reverse, etc) and if you can read the car's attitude and the forces acting on it you could make some crazy driving aids.  There's always the question of how fast the Arduino can process the incoming data (I found limits when trying to process inputs, control motors and servos and ESCs and operate an IR serial transmission at the same time) but I think the latest hardware is fairly fast.

I imagine most ESCs are based on generic programmable chips that are much the same as those installed on Arduinos.

[Juls1 1660]

The Traxxas system included in most new Traxxas cars is actually already quite good, it controls both steering and throttle input (so traction control to some extent) and can be tuned from the radio 0 to 100%. I’ve only got it on my unlimited desert racer, and given it needs slippery tyres to stop it traction rolling, and given it has a spool at the back I find about 15-20% stability management is a sweet spot, any more and it interferes way too much for my liking, and any less and it’s a real struggle to drive in a straight line under power, but it’s very happy to let you drift full opposite lock for as long as the longest corner you can find still. 
 

until I got the UDR I was a total no f’ing way and intended to ditch the radio ASAP but having tried it, realised the implementation actually adds fun and is constantly adjustable. I was mostly just amazed it actually worked. 
 

this being said I have not tried it on any other Traxxas model and I’ve got a 2wd slash/rustler/rustler 4x4/summit etc. but none of them had it when I bough them. 
 

as for the aftermarket units, I don’t know much about them I thought the gyros only really controlled the steering but I’m happy to be corrected. 

[Fabia130vRS 2098]

34 minutes ago, Mad Ax said:

I've seen various driver aids on various speedos, I've never been sure exactly how good they are (I wonder if on cheap ESCs they are just gimmicks).  In all seriousness, how much do you need?  I understand that with a large scale RWD you might want ABS if you don't have braking on the front wheels. 

They do have full braking system in the rear and front. Just similar to bicycle oil brakes.

they use mineral oil instead of brake fluid to not damage the O rings.

Here is a picture. One servo operates just brakes and the other operates throttle and rear brake. With channet mixing you can adjust that the servo operating the brake does not follow movement of the throttle in the opposite direction, something we dont see on our 1:10s. 3 servos are used, sometimes 4.

this car also shares the clutch like a 50cc scooters two weights hold together with a spring to adjust the grip level of the clutch to gearbox bell. Since there is no esc to set up its all done mechanically 

[Busdriver 6209]

My Losi Raptor has a variable stability program. I have to say it is quite effective. This is quite a big fast car out of the box and frankly I got quite a shock when I first drove it. The program certainly makes  it so that you can get used to it without writing it off on the first outing. I’ve only really used it twice but by the second run I had turned it down a little. 

[markbt73 5311]

To expand on my earlier reply, I guess there are two reasons I'm against such things (or rather, don't want them on my models; what other people do is their own concern).

1. I'm a modeler first and a driver second. It took me a long time to realize that, including many years of club racing in various forms. The older I get, the less I care about going fast, or keeping up with the latest and greatest. I just want to putter around with my little toy cars that I spent so much time building or restoring, and if I decide to get exuberant with my driving, I want the possibility of consequences from that to keep me in check.

2. It's the mechanical aspect of these things that interests me, not the electronics. Anything that doesn't have moving parts, I just expect it to do its job and not bother me. This goes for computers, phones... and ESCs. They're tools, and often useful ones, but they leave me cold. I like a sense of connectedness to the things around me, and I don't get that from most of the modern digital world, no matter how "helpful" something might be. It's why I still prefer to actually put a vinyl record on a turntable to listen to music at home, and why I still drive cars with manual transmissions and no electronic nannies, and why I keep a couple of my RC models with their original mechanical soeed controls. I just like the feel of operating mechanical things, far better than programming something to do something for me.

[Busdriver 6209]

That’s what’s so good about this hobby, you can be totally old school and mechanical or all electrical and high tech or somewhere in between. As long as you enjoy it. Back in an earlier life I was a catering student and our wine and spirit lecturer used to ask all the new students what was the best wine in the world.? Wishing to impress the students would come up with all the obvious suggestions. He would nod sagely and bring out of his bag a ropey old bottle of plonk and proudly announce that this was the best wine in the world much to the amazement of all present. Once the noise had died down he would add simply “because I like it” 😉

 

[Wooders28 4719]

There are a good few ,driver aids, available on decent Radios there's days, expo rate/curve , Adjustable ABS and I've found I've a setting on mine, that alters the braking strength based on steering angle! 

Give you an idea of the things they can do, this is the manual, and yes, it's all in English.....😳

 

 

If you're using a gyro, it's like using , toys, in the bedroom ,and claiming you're the best lover.....