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Bwaaatch

Ideas for a new G6-01 Avante-Gator build

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Having built and really enjoyed THREE comical buggies, I'm moving on to something a little different, but which I hope can still hang with those guys for park bashing.

I've seen some wonderful videos of Kongheads and Dyna thingies tearing through woodland, along paths and even splashing through streams. This is what I fancy! Something more capable than the WR02s that won't get stuck so often, but can still run around a park with the comicals if required. In other words, not a crawler or a trail truck (I'm avoiding the portal axles for now).

So here is what I have in mind, in the hope that you guys might chip in with ideas for the bits I'm unsure about. And help me get excited … which I already am … Is there a name for th moment we commit to a project like this? Been mulling it for a while, and scribbling this down feels like a moment of comitment. 

  • Base kit: KongHead
  • ESC: Hobbywing 1060 (I have another one, works well and is supposed to be waterproof?
  • Waterproof version of the flysky FS GR3-E receiver
  • Body: Gonna get an Avante shell and hack it on, maybe some alligator theming! Inspired by the Avante's long snout, and buy this non-tamiya mini 4wd clone, the Takara Gulltech! (the real car looks terrible compared to this awesome avante-clone looking box art BTW. In the flesh there is nothing Avante about it)
  • Konghead has friction shocks, so need some real shocks! Any tips on options that come in PAIRS (cos I need 6), work well in wet and muddy conditions, and are the right length?
  • Big set of bearings (rubber shielded I guess, for wetness protection – but I've head some people say to use metal shielded inside the gearbox? Any view on that?)
  • Motor: Real need to some advice! Been having fun with Gool RC 17t and 19t cheapo motors in my WR02s. Any good running a bigger gearbox with so much more drag?
    • I like to go fast, but perhaps tongue more important here?
    • Curious again about waterproofing. My WR02s sometime loose power when wet, and unsure if it's the open end bell motors or the ESC.
  • Gears: In the WR02s I just upgrade t the hop up pinion (20t) and that's it. Can/should I do more in a G6-01?
  • Wheels: Stock ones look fine for my purposes. I've heard foam help. Any recommendations for right size? And will getting them soggy give me issues?
  • Servos: Tips for cheapish waterproof servos? Should I be looking for plastic gears just in case?
  • Any other essential hop ups that g6-01 owner rely on?

Thanks as ever for input! Hoping to make something a little unique :-)

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2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Base kit: KongHead

Good choice - seems to be the cheapest body option, plus the exhausts and air filters are separate mouldings that might come in handy for your customised shell.

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

ESC: Hobbywing 1060 (I have another one, works well and is supposed to be waterproof?

Seems a sound choice. The jumpers can become a bit iffy if allowed to get really wet and dirty, but otherwise they work well in the wet. A slightly more expensive option with no jumpers is the RV-12 Assault. With a sealed membrane button for setup instead of jumpers, even extended submersion doesn't bother it.

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Waterproof version of the flysky FS GR3-E receiver

Never tried it, but the waterproof versions of the Spektrum receivers I use work well. I guess comparable sealing techniques would be used by different manufacturers?

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Body: Gonna get an Avante shell and hack it on, maybe some alligator theming! Inspired by the Avante's long snout, and buy this non-tamiya mini 4wd clone, the Takara Gulltech! (the real car looks terrible compared to this awesome avante-clone looking box art BTW. In the flesh there is nothing Avante about it)

IMO anything will look better than the Konghead shell. A monster 6-wheeled buggy sounds like a great plan. Looking forward to seeing how it comes out!

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Konghead has friction shocks, so need some real shocks! Any tips on options that come in PAIRS (cos I need 6), work well in wet and muddy conditions, and are the right length?

Mini CVAs fit right on, are available in packs of 2 or 4, and being black plastic they don't show the inevitable wear from rough running that can make anodised shocks look scruffy in no time.

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Big set of bearings (rubber shielded I guess, for wetness protection – but I've head some people say to use metal shielded inside the gearbox? Any view on that?)

The gearbox moulding does a good job of keeping larger particulates at bay, but isn't fully watertight, so I'd vote for rubber sealed bearings throughout.

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Motor: Real need to some advice! Been having fun with Gool RC 17t and 19t cheapo motors in my WR02s. Any good running a bigger gearbox with so much more drag?

An open-endbell motor is more likely to stop working in mucky conditions as the brushes are more prone to getting hung up in their guides and not making contact with the commutator as a result, whereas a silver can has brushes mounted on springy arms which are more resistant to getting hung up. However an open endbell is easier to clean afterwards. Do you prefer a motor that is easier to clean but needs cleaning more often, or a motor that is harder to clean but needs it less often? Either way, as long as you don't add drag to the drivetrain by over-greasing the gears, it isn't too demanding in the motor department. I run mine on a Torque Tuned and 2S LiPo, and it feels plenty quick enough.

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Gears: In the WR02s I just upgrade t the hop up pinion (20t) and that's it. Can/should I do more in a G6-01?

I'd stick with the stock ratio, but upgrade to a steel pinion.

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Wheels: Stock ones look fine for my purposes. I've heard foam help. Any recommendations for right size? And will getting them soggy give me issues?

Stock ones work fine, I tried foams but found that they get waterlogged and unbalance the wheels so I removed them. I only glued the inner bead of the tyres, making it easy to unmount the outer beads to clean out any debris from inside, while still preventing them from slipping on the wheels.

2 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Servos: Tips for cheapish waterproof servos? Should I be looking for plastic gears just in case?

Alturn AAS700STD servos are cheap, waterproof, ballraced and work well, but stocks are hard to come by these days it seems. A bit more expensive and lacking a ballrace but easier to find in stock is the Etronix ES045. I haven't broken a plastic-gear servo in mine yet, but if this is a concern, you could go for the metal-geared digital waterproof Etronix ES092. There are of course many more expensive and fancier servos out there too.

3 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

Any other essential hop ups that g6-01 owner rely on?

You have covered the essentials with your steel pinion, oil shocks and bearing kit. There are plenty of shiny nice-to-haves, but for general running purposes, with relatively tame motors, you don't need them. I fitted the slightly wider GF-01CB arms and dogbones to mine which make it a bit more stable, but it wasn't bad in stock form. My main reason for fitting them was so that the wheels would clear a custom shell I built.

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@TurnipJF, this is just amazing! I'm so grateful.

Sounds like you've been having fun with yours. Went hunting for it, but no showroom?

Your response basically has my shopping list sorted, plus your advice on things like bearings and foams is just ace. I'm running out of excuses not to just buy the kit immediately! Though it does like like I'll have to wait til May for a Konghead in stock here in the UK. Still, gives me time to order all the fun bits …

Think I might need the wider arms as you suggest. Lining up an Avante shell on a WR02 makes it look a bit tight near the middle (end).

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Bwaaatch said:

@TurnipJF, this is just amazing! I'm so grateful.

Sounds like you've been having fun with yours. Went hunting for it, but no showroom?

Your response basically has my shopping list sorted, plus your advice on things like bearings and foams is just ace. I'm running out of excuses not to just buy the kit immediately! Though it does like like I'll have to wait til May for a Konghead in stock here in the UK. Still, gives me time to order all the fun bits …

Think I might need the wider arms as you suggest. Lining up an Avante shell on a WR02 makes it look a bit tight near the middle (end).

I see what you mean about the width. Considering the typical wide, low stance of a buggy, you might want to go even wider still. A few sets of TL-01B/WR-01/WT-01 arms would fit the bill nicely I'd think. They come on sprue P/N 0005688, which will also give you the TL-01B kick-up bumper and central body post mounting that might suit the buggy look better than the stock G6-01 parts, and are a direct fit to the G6-01 chassis.

Oh, and here is a link to my showroom:

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom.asp?id=46781

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Cool, you have all the answers @TurnipJF!

and I see you also I’ve a nice sideline in custom g6-01s! Swat van works a treat!

For width, I’ll see how it sits when I get it built, I think. I have some big Chinese wheels that come with adapters of different offsets, so these might come in handy.

Might need to look at tyres too, as the stock items perhaps too agricultural for a buggy...

Thanks again.

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I haven't got much to add that @TurnipJF hasn't already added - just to say I think this is a fantastic idea and I can't wait to see how it comes out.

As for the stance - you could either cut an arch shape into the body (could look very 'factory' if done right) or - and I'm just throwing this out there - widen the middle axle only.  Crazy, I know, but I don't know that anybody else has done that and maybe it will look terrible but if it's going to suit anything, it's this!  I have no idea what this might do for your handling...

You may want to consider stainless kingpins for the suspension.  There's a Volvo A60H thread over in the Monster Trucks subforum that lists the parts you need.  My reasoning: 1) the threaded kingpins tend to unthread themselves when driving around, so you have to check regularly, and 2) the threaded kingpins are mild steel, and the corrode if put away wet.  You could apply grease to stave off corrosion, unfortunately the rust is starting to get to mine.  After a while it will seize your suspension solid, I've had to get medieval with some M03 restorations to get rusted kingpins out of the plastic chassis :o 

Only other thing to add - I love my G6-01 to bits, it's the best backyard basher in the entire world and has so much scope for custom work.  I haven't really run my in the woods that much but it doesn't get hung up at home, the only thing that stops it is if the front wheels go straight over the 2x4 support on the bottom of the climbing frame, it's the perfect size to sit between front and middle axle and stop it getting over.

15 hours ago, Bwaaatch said:

 

  • I like to go fast, but perhaps tongue more important here?

I think we all know the answer to this question, but why you're asking on this forum is beyond me

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I love the idea of having the middle set of wheels with a wider track than the front and rear sets. It’s the kind of vehicle Gerry Anderson would have produced for Thunderbirds or Captain Scarlet. Am watching this with interest . Problem is if it’s too good I might have to get myself one to have a play with👺

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On 3/21/2021 at 1:42 PM, Bwaaatch said:
  • Konghead has friction shocks, so need some real shocks! Any tips on options that come in PAIRS (cos I need 6), work well in wet and muddy conditions, and are the right length?
  • Big set of bearings (rubber shielded I guess, for wetness protection – but I've head some people say to use metal shielded inside the gearbox? Any view on that?)
  • Motor: Real need to some advice! Been having fun with Gool RC 17t and 19t cheapo motors in my WR02s. Any good running a bigger gearbox with so much more drag?

•I run Tamiya mini CVAs on the corners of my King Yellow friction dampers on the middle wheels 
• I have metal sealed inside the gear box. If you assemble it per the instructions and use a bead of either marine grease or silicone sealant you should not need to worry about water and dust intrusion (unless you use your gator as a submarine)  for further waterproofing I have A waterproof 1060,  waterproof Arrma servos from a kit breaker shop (about $10USD) and I keep my RX mounted inside a Traxxas RX box . 
• Motor wise I use a cheap Dynamite 15Turn brushed . It’s a pretty quick, hot motor but I have no problems overheating with optional 20tooth pinion. ( I only have the stock 27T silver can in my WR02 and it could benefit from a little more punch ) 

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On 3/21/2021 at 1:42 PM, Bwaaatch said:

Failing that, the Konghead will become 'Crusher' from Blaze and Monster Machines, he's an ridiculous villain loved by my daughter.

I just googled him. He’s a villain ? But he looks so cool! 
Then again I’ve been a pro wresting fan for decades and lots of “heel” wrestlers have had a cool look . 

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Sounds like folks have you pretty well covered, but I wanted to add: the G6-01 is incredibly efficient and free-running with full bearings. You'd think all those gears would add drag, but as long as you go easy on the grease (just a tiny dab on each mating surface!), it's a really smooth drivetrain. So don't worry about having to "overcome" anything with the motor.

And don't forget two rubber-sealed 850 bearings for the steering. Or four, if you're going 4WS. It really does make a difference.

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Thank so much for all the input. This is where I'm at:

Ordered items:

  • King Yellow from Wonderland models (Konghead impossible to find right now, and i couldn't wait) about £167 delivered. Crusher will have to wait. I think the non-chrome wheels look better anyway.
  • Bearings from rcbearings £28 (and thanks to @markbt73, I checked that this includes the 850s!
  • )Alturn AAS700STD from Penn Models ( @TurnipJF was right, tough to find these ) £13
  • One set of 0005688 parts for centre body post and to try our longer arms (Modelsport). I also have some spare Wr-02 CB sprue around, so may have some other arm options there. £10
    • Guess I'll need longer dog bones, too? will get to that …
  • Hobby wing 1060 (Modelsport) £19
  • Flysky GT3C and a spare receiver (not the waterproof one, will try this and see how I go) £57 for the pair, which was a great deal from Kamtec.
  • Avante body set from Tony Tamiya £20

So I think I'm doing my bit keeping UK model shops alive in these difficult times! But this is all rather adding up form the point where i saw a konghead for £150 and thought "What a bargain!"

Mini CVAs cost more than I thought, and very hard to get right now. Toying with just buying another comical buggy to get a set of four … :-) Oh, it's a dangerous hobby …

Will probably get an Avante driver too, but might wait to see if he'll actually fit.

 

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Well most, most of my parts have arrived now, and I'll start the build shortly … so a few  more questions for G6-01 owners:

  • Heard others talk about some kind of metal strengthening plate for the chassis. Like it's useful to prevent the chassis splitting apart? Is something like that recommended?
  • @TurnipJF mentioned a steel pinion, 18t. Is there a part number for that? Or a non-Tamiya item?
  • I have a 4000Kv EasyRun brushless combo sitting in an underused Wr02. Anything wrong with chucking that in this new G6-01? If I used the 20t pinion?
    • Is brushless plus water a bad move?
  • I'm not very mechanically minded and barely understand differentials! But I've read about people using diff putty in their G6-01 diffs. Is that a good move? Can anyone explain the benefits? Sounds like this locks diffs up (a bit? completely?) for superior traction on inclines or tricky ground, which sounds good! What's the downside, here? Problems with high speed cornering? Or risk of straining the gearbox?

Cheers!

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Some progress...

Gone super wide with the wild Dagger arms. Will write up a full spec later.

D211C325-6605-4534-9C91-13C860171AE7.jpeg

81B2591C-0259-4CDD-B3D3-DCDF300DBF67.jpeg

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On 4/1/2021 at 9:15 PM, Bwaaatch said:

Heard others talk about some kind of metal strengthening plate for the chassis. Like it's useful to prevent the chassis splitting apart? Is something like that recommended?

With your wide arm conversion, you'll be putting more stress on the suspension arm mounts if you crash, so it would be worth considering fitting one I'd say. 

On 4/1/2021 at 9:15 PM, Bwaaatch said:

TurnipJF mentioned a steel pinion, 18t. Is there a part number for that? Or a non-Tamiya item?

It would be an aftermarket item. RW Racing ones from Modelsport are my choice. 

On 4/1/2021 at 9:15 PM, Bwaaatch said:

I have a 4000Kv EasyRun brushless combo sitting in an underused Wr02. Anything wrong with chucking that in this new G6-01? If I used the 20t pinion?

Worth a try!

On 4/1/2021 at 9:15 PM, Bwaaatch said:

Is brushless plus water a bad move?

Unless the system is designed to be waterproof, yes. 

On 4/1/2021 at 9:15 PM, Bwaaatch said:

I'm not very mechanically minded and barely understand differentials! But I've read about people using diff putty in their G6-01 diffs. Is that a good move? Can anyone explain the benefits?

In the case of a free-running diff with no thick grease or putty in it, the power is sent to the wheel with the least grip. If a wheel has no grip at all, all the power for that axle is sent to it, causing it to spin uselessly while the opposite wheel which may have some grip is equally useless as it has no power going to it.

Thick grease or putty slows down the action of the differential gears. This has the result of limiting the degree to which it can redistribute power from one side to the other. This in turn means that even if one wheel has no grip, it won't get all the power. Some will still be sent to the opposite wheel, so if it has grip, it can still help drive the vehicle onwards. 

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Cheers @TurnipJF!

Now have some some Yeah Racing front and rear shock mounts on order. Not sure what to do about the mounts on the middle axle? Perhaps they are less prone and will be fine ...

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1 hour ago, Bwaaatch said:

Cheers @TurnipJF!

Now have some some Yeah Racing front and rear shock mounts on order. Not sure what to do about the mounts on the middle axle? Perhaps they are less prone and will be fine ...

The middle set of wheels is protected from most impacts by the front and rear set, so it is not as vulnerable. You should be fine with the stock arrangement. 

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Looks great, but I think it would look 100x better if you put narrow axles front and rear :lol:

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7 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

Looks great, but I think it would look 100x better if you put narrow axles front and rear :lol:

Well, that remains an option!

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Bumping my own thread to try to persuade myself to get back to this project :-)

Found another nice pic of the GullTech inspiration here: http://www.oldtoy.net/goods/view.php?seq=42659

I like that they switched the terrain, to show that it can go from land to water, not just the other way around!

Been accruing parts in past 12 months, and planning on having my workspace back up and running in a month or so, so running out of excuses not to get this done!

Wish I could find some pics of the old 6-wheeled Wild Mini 4wd clones that partially inspired this idea. I'm picturing a Clodbuster or Bullhead with a kind of trailer at the back? But a hard one to google. Korean or Japanese, I think – not a later Chinese brand. If anyone has one or can show me a pic, that would be great!

image.jpeg

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On 4/8/2022 at 6:26 PM, Aerobert said:

Maybe you mean those:

https://www.mini-4wd.de/arii.html

You need to scroll down to the end of the page.

Amazing! Thank’s @Aerobert!!!

I was in that site yesterday looking for an answer myself before t didn’t quite make it that far. Really grateful!

Hope other can be inspired by these.there is something cool about every one of them.

image.jpeg.7fad958be379c2e51400084b2ae44b91.jpeg

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For your encouragemnet:

Finally build my g6-01 too today, almost finished tinkering with the chassis, just need to add servo and linkages. A budget build though, using anything that available in the moment.

20220410_041135.thumb.jpg.d9fa214af98df99c79bda9d4009e82b6.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Morinstal said:

For your encouragemnet:

Finally build my G6-01 too t20220410_041135.thumb.jpg.d9fa214af98df99c79bda9d4009e82b6.jpgoday, almost finished tinkering with the chassis, just need to add servo and linkage. A budget build, just used parts that available right now.

Nice! Body plans?

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Want to use buggy body, tried df03 bodies (dark impact/ avante) but it looks too small. Planning to buy Dash-01 body coz it looks fat and big XD. If that fails too, ill just use the original konghead body.

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