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Dazza1976

Beginner Off-road for 5-6 year old

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Hi all.

 

appreciate this will be topic that has come up many many times but searching I couldn’t find what I needed. 
 

Summary:

got my first RC couple years ago, LandFreeder special. Too much for my then 3 yr old nephew to use obviously so got him some cheap indoor RC cars but I want to get him something for his garden, which is very big, mostly short grass with the some long grass. Scope to make a mini course to be honest as it’s pretty big. It does break up in summer as the ground is mostly clay so gets bumpy. 
 

I was looking at:

Rising Fighter - think it would struggle on grass a bit, and also with bumps end up hopping everywhere?

grasshopper - might not have the power to get through the grass and again bump around a lot

hornet - as per grass hopper but maybe too much power for him. 

madbull - probably the one tbh but not I like look of it and seems pretty fast so maybe downgrade the engine/gearing.

or perhaps something like the freedlander but lower motor/gear in it, the 4wd helps on his garden. 
 

Also are there any hand controls where you can limit the throttle inputs?

5 years old is young but he seems to show interest in mechanical things so might be good hobby to get him into. Plus I get to indulge my lost childhood. 
 

apologies because I expect there will be a few eye rolls at this topic coming up again, appreciate any suggestions. 
 

cheers

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I put a cheap crawler motor in my sons’s BF when he was first starting out.  It was slow enough for him to learn without breaking anything. 

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Not at all.

I use these controllers which work fine. You can reduce the throttle really easily. They are super cheap and I've had no issue with them. Probably quite basic, but they work, and good for small hands

 I'd go for something more powerful, but something you can turn the throttle down on. Then one day you can turn up the EPA, add a few stickers and he gets a whole new car. Some ESC are also able to be turned down by using fewer cells too, although some have limits to how low you can go. Or for a  longer run time, but a high turn motor on there too.

Keeping it light might be a good idea, as the heavier the car the more it will hurt if it hits someone, so I wouldn't go crazy either. A large car with a lower powered motor will seem much more sluggish than a lighter one for the same top speed.

It depends how much you want to spend too. If you are in a garden the turning radius might be a real consideration, kids often struggle with 3 (or 12) point turns, so something that turns on a dime would be good.  

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6 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

Not at all.

I use these controllers which work fine. You can reduce the throttle really easily. They are super cheap and I've had no issue with them. Probably quite basic, but they work, and good for small hands

 I'd go for something more powerful, but something you can turn the throttle down on. Then one day you can turn up the EPA, add a few stickers and he gets a whole new car. Some ESC are also able to be turned down by using fewer cells too, although some have limits to how low you can go. Or for a  longer run time, but a high turn motor on there too.

Keeping it light might be a good idea, as the heavier the car the more it will hurt if it hits someone, so I wouldn't go crazy either. A large car with a lower powered motor will seem much more sluggish than a lighter one for the same top speed.

It depends how much you want to spend too. If you are in a garden the turning radius might be a real consideration, kids often struggle with 3 (or 12) point turns, so something that turns on a dime would be good.  

Thanks, it’s pretty big garden (about 300ft long, maybe 50 ft wide), the turning circle should be ok i think, it was with my LandFreeder. It’s more the bumpy surface which makes me hesitant on the buggy’s. They might end up jumping around and flipping all over the place or getting stuck when it’s wet. He will be crashing it everywhere at first, he’s pretty heavy handed and there are a lot of trees to crash into. 

those controllers look good, thank you I’ll grab one of those. Also take your point on more power but using controller to tone it down.

 

re budget I’m thinking £150 ish all in, might mean I need to grab a decent 2nd hand car. The rising fighter is cheap as is the grasshopper, I already have the fast charger from my LandFreeder purchase so he can use that.

 

my head initially said rising fighter, and maybe do the rear suspension mod on it but I’d rather get something that is good do go (maybe add some metal bearings to whatever I get). But would also be good to get something he can grow with and upgrade before I give him the freedlander. 
 

Shop near me is selling rising fighter for £70-80!I think.  

 

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Having all of the cars you are considering in my fleet, I can confidently say that the Mad Bull is the most rugged and robust, most stable, most capable off-road and furthest away from a real buggy in terms of looks. However if you pop a set of standard buggy wheels and tires on it, it becomes a very smart looking vehicle indeed. And if the shell is bothering you, you can get creative and fit a different one of those too.

It is quite capable already, so doesn't have a huge upgrade path, but the gearbox is very tough so you can fit a strong brushless motor without grenading it, the suspension can take an oil shock upgrade, and unlike the Grasshopper and Hornet, you can fit standard length buggy shocks. The bearings required are all either 1150 or 850 size which are easily available with rubber seals which is what I would recommend for off-road use. It takes the same 0.8 module steel pinions as the DT-02 and DT-03, which are available from Tamiya so you don't need to go hunting around for aftermarket steel upgrades.

All in all, I can't fault it as a kid's model, or one for grown-ups for that matter. The only modification required at the outset (in addition to the bearings, oil shocks and steel pinion of course) is a bit of heat shrink over the steering push rod to stop it wobbling around and potentially getting jammed. Or if you are feeling fancy, you can replace it with two ball connectors and a short piece of threaded rod.

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Anything faster than stock can with a hint of a slippery tarmac and the madbull just does donuts all the time, not fun at all, I'd avoid it.

The rising fighter will be fine on cut grass especially if you restrict the too speed, plus you can upgrade the wheels to madbull size at a later date if you wish (plus wheel axles from lunch box are needed).

 

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Thank you Turnip and Taffer . 
 

so madbull is rugged and good upgrade potential but to stop him spinning it out of control all the time limit the top speed and maybe get buggy wheels to put on it. I think that’s a good and very simple solution because it’s the 4 big tractor wheels that I dislike. 
 

Regarding the rising fighter the grass is not always cut that short and the garden is very up and down, bumpy really, as the cracks in the clay just beneath the top soil open up.

 

Appreciate all the responses so far, very helpful
 


 

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10 minutes ago, H22A4 said:

What is your budget?

Approx £150-160 all in I’d say.

I could get him just a car and let him use my hand controller/battery/fast charger. 
 

You might wonder why I don’t let him just use my freedlander but I won’t be with much during covid and want something resilient for him to learn with. 

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1 hour ago, Dazza1976 said:

Thank you Turnip and Taffer . 
 

so madbull is rugged and good upgrade potential but to stop him spinning it out of control all the time limit the top speed and maybe get buggy wheels to put on it. I think that’s a good and very simple solution because it’s the 4 big tractor wheels that I dislike. 
 

Regarding the rising fighter the grass is not always cut that short and the garden is very up and down, bumpy really, as the cracks in the clay just beneath the top soil open up.

 

Appreciate all the responses so far, very helpful
 


 

@B.RAD has a thread on his Mad Bull, which contains a nice video near the end showing how it performs on standard buggy wheels. Here is the link:

 

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I've had my 5 year old playing with my RC cars for a few years now, and it's surprising how well he's able to control it. With the speed dialled down and the space to get used to it, they soon pick it up.

He started with Lunchbox/Heavy Dump sessions, when really all he could do was throttle or steering. The Heavy Dump was great for those as it didn't get stuck too much, and looked interesting to him as he could interact with it with his other construction toys. I used the EPA settings on the controllers to keep the speed down, allowing me to set it to the appropriateness of the terrain.

As he's got older, he wanted something quicker, so he's tried out Hotshots, TT02Bs, Top Force, Optima etc. He tended to get quite opinionated about what they looked like, so that might be a key to the success, whether your nephew likes the look of it, the colour.  I still have the speed wound down to 75%, but he's had a go on full power and actually prefers to be in control when the space is tight. On rugby pitches he was much happier with it at 100% on mild motors.

Reliability wise, the worse option (thankfully something you've not picked) is touring cars. When playing with his cousin, it can often turn into a destruction derby, and the touring cars really don't get on well there. The buggies however seem ok. TT02B vs Hotshot hasn't really resulted in any damage to person or car.

I think the big wheels would be a great success, I don't think the bumpy ground would hinder them. I think the increased ride height would reduce grass pickup on the driveshafts etc, which can bring playtime to a halt. Buggy wheels would be more performant, but more likely to get stuck in the mud you refer to.

I've not had a Madbull, but the simplicity, ruggedness and big wheels (always popular) is great choice. You could stick big tyres on a TT02B if one of those bodies was more appealing, but the price starts to creep up.

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See, now I've read this, and then see this from another thread

Perhaps this is what your nephew's garden will look like come the summer :D

 

 

I kinda want a Madbull now though! (or go the other way, and put big wheels on the Rising Fighter)

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1 hour ago, jupitertwo said:

 

I kinda want a Madbull now though! (or go the other way, and put big wheels on the Rising Fighter)

They look rather good on big rubber IMO.

2021-03-23_04-14-54

 

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Madbull gets my vote. Yes they are tail happy but if you can adjust end points you should be able to get the right balance of speed and handling. Or put a higher turn motor such as a 35/40t motor. Being a hard body it’s great for kids to get creative with, all sorts on this site from Barbie to Burger King, and if you get bored with it just paint over the top. Whole chassis and drivetrain seem bomb proof to me. I run a sport tuned in mine and it’s great fun.

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1 hour ago, jupitertwo said:

See, now I've read this, and then see this from another thread

Perhaps this is what your nephew's garden will look like come the summer :D

 

 

I kinda want a Madbull now though! (or go the other way, and put big wheels on the Rising Fighter)

Ah now I’ve been researching the DT01 chassis. Is that the way to go?

 

Bit more expensive but future proof a little?

 

can get the fighter buggy for around £130 ish it seems. 

 

023B221C-ABC7-4316-80CB-BDEED012EE23.jpeg

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36 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

They look rather good on big rubber IMO.

2021-03-23_04-14-54

 

I must admit even thought I know it might struggle on the garden when it is long or muddy I keep thinking “start nephew off in the rising fighter”. 

Is it essential to do the rear spring mod in the RF?

 

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1 hour ago, Dazza1976 said:

I must admit even thought I know it might struggle on the garden when it is long or muddy I keep thinking “start nephew off in the rising fighter”. 

Is it essential to do the rear spring mod in the RF?

 

Which mod do you mean? Replacing the pogo sticks with proper shocks, or the 3rd shock mod/AmPro brace, or fitting an AmPro or similar aftermarket lower mount that puts them at more of an angle, like those on the Super Hornet and DT-01?

Proper oil shocks in place of the pogo sticks are a very good idea and turn a bouncy insane uncontrollable toy into a bouncy mad semi-controllable model. Some people (such as my wife for example) consider this to be enough, and enjoy the bouncy stunt-car character of the RF in this form. With practice it can be made to go pretty much where you want it to. She managed to place in the upper half of the field when she entered Gonzo, her Rising Fighter, in the postal races for example.

The AmPro brace, 3rd shock mod or other equivalent way of keeping the front end of the gearbox from clicking up and down makes for a more refined-sounding car, but doesn't seem to affect the handling much in my experience. It seems to make a noticeable difference on the Hornet though, so maybe I am not sufficiently familiar with the normal behaviour of a RF to be able to tell the difference? (We fitted the brace shortly after acquiring the model, so didn't really get a feel for it without the mod.)

Judging by how well the angled rear shocks work on the DT-01, I would anticipate similar benefits from a lower mount that places the RF shocks at a similar angle. However I haven't tried this mod yet, so cannot confirm this from personal experience.

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4 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

 has a thread on his Mad Bull, which contains a nice video near the end showing how it performs on standard buggy wheels. Here is the link:

I can concur that the Mad Bull on buggy wheels really is fantastic! Took it out again today and it absolutely rips, so fast and so much fun! It is a little tricky to control flat out, but for me that's part of the fun ☺️ I'll do some more video soon and add it to my thread as now the area I run in is getting more sandy, it's becoming even more fun! 😁

I've just bought some 95mm tyres to go on, this is a bit of a middle ground between the stock tyres and the buggy wheels (which were DT03 wheels BTW). It does run brilliantly on the buggy wheels, but the ground clearance is quite low now, so I am getting beached on small roots, sticks etc quite often. The ESC would overheat on the standard wheels, so I'm hoping this is a good compromise!

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1 hour ago, TurnipJF said:

Which mod do you mean? Replacing the pogo sticks with proper shocks, or the 3rd shock mod/AmPro brace, or fitting an AmPro or similar aftermarket lower mount that puts them at more of an angle, like those on the Super Hornet and DT-01?

Proper oil shocks in place of the pogo sticks are a very good idea and turn a bouncy insane uncontrollable toy into a bouncy mad semi-controllable model. Some people (such as my wife for example) consider this to be enough, and enjoy the bouncy stunt-car character of the RF in this form. With practice it can be made to go pretty much where you want it to. She managed to place in the upper half of the field when she entered Gonzo, her Rising Fighter, in the postal races for example.

The AmPro brace, 3rd shock mod or other equivalent way of keeping the front end of the gearbox from clicking up and down makes for a more refined-sounding car, but doesn't seem to affect the handling much in my experience. It seems to make a noticeable difference on the Hornet though, so maybe I am not sufficiently familiar with the normal behaviour of a RF to be able to tell the difference? (We fitted the brace shortly after acquiring the model, so didn't really get a feel for it without the mod.)

Judging by how well the angled rear shocks work on the DT-01, I would anticipate similar benefits from a lower mount that places the RF shocks at a similar angle. However I haven't tried this mod yet, so cannot confirm this from personal experience.

Yeah it is the AmPro brace I saw on YouTube, it changes the angle of the shocks. 
I’m thinking I’ll end up spending a lot on the little RF so perhaps it is better to get a better chassis early on. 
 So many different chassis to choose from!

mad bull seems to be out of stock everywhere. 

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DT03 Neo Fighter, fairly cheap and great value for money, cheap (usually available) parts.

Radio with EPA- I went for an Absima CR3P for my 6yr old, she prefered that over the Core RC stick controller.

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4 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

They look rather good on big rubber IMO.

Just great wheels! 

spacer.png

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14 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

DT03 Neo Fighter, fairly cheap and great value for money, cheap (usually available) parts.

Radio with EPA- I went for an Absima CR3P for my 6yr old, she prefered that over the Core RC stick controller.

The DT-03 will out-handle any of the options discussed so far, but is also not as robust as any of the options discussed so far. If you are confident that crashes will be relatively gentle and infrequent, or if you don't mind replacing the chassis and gearbox every now and again, they are great cars. However if you place robustness above handling in your list of priorities, you might want to keep this in mind as a good second vehicle for when he is a bit older?

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Does it have to be new?  If not, you may want to consider a used AE RC10 B5 etc. They’re far more durable than Tamiyas buggies and allow room for growth.

I was in similar position a year ago and was considering a Hornet, Neo Fighter.. and for and additional $50, I picked up a brand new Kyosho RB7. My son who is now 7, rips up and down the grass at the park with it and has yet to break it 

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11 minutes ago, Raman36 said:

for and additional $50, I picked up a brand new Kyosho RB7

A 2nd hand one (or similar full race car) would be worth a look too.

I've given my old Schumacher KF2se to my daughter, and she's loving it!! (Plus I've spares...🙄), and she's now looking forward to the tracks opening back up! 

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