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^Smith^

Tamiya Super Astute - Motor and Pinion Gear

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Good Day all!


I really need some help!
The Tamiya Super Astute Kit does not provide a motor.
No problem there, I have a Tamiya Mabuchi Torque Tuned motor and a Tamiya Super Stock BZ in stock
The Astute manual actually recommends a brushless motor, I thought that was surprising.

That said, the motor shaft on the Mabuchi is barely long enough to install the pinion gear. So, the grub screw is just engaging the motor shaft by a few mm's The Super Stock has a longer shaft and should be okay.
The SS motor manual cautions that the motor "cannot endure the motor rotation with plastic bearings" and recommends change those bearing to ball bearings.

Questions...
- Does that mean change any plastic bearing through out the model?
- Are there pinion gears available with a longer shaft, that would be suitable?
- is the SS motor too powerful for this model?
- any other options available??

Thanks to all for any thoughts that you can provide!!!

 

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Plastic bearings should not be used - waste of time unless it is going to be a display model only.

Always use ball bearings throughout - Tamiya should by now be including these as standard parts in all kits or at least the more expensive ones - they are after all cheap enough these days.

 

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Hi there @^Smith^

Short answer: use the kit 82T spur and a 23T pinion (53922) with the SS BZ and you're pretty much good to go, and if you can find the 85T 05 mod spur gear (51248, from the DF03/DF03ra) you buy your motor a little more breathing space

Longer answer....

I've literally just finished building my SA chassis, I haven't got as far as painting or running yet, but I can help a bit :)

The SS BZ is a perfect choice I think, and its FDR range (9-11) is achievable with the kit 82T spur gear and a 23T 05 mod pinion (9.22). If you can get hold of an 85T spur gear that gets you to 9.6, which is a bit better. There is also the option to switch the spur to 48p and use 48p pinions which offer a lot more flexibility, but that's a different rabbit hole. I went there, but it's up to you

The SA doesn't have any plastic bushings, its ball-raced / metal bushings throughout so you have no issues there either

The next bit isn't my direct experience, but what I have read on here based on the experiences of others. @Jonathon Gillham ( think?) has written before that stock silver can motors don't have long enough shafts for the SA, so I guess that's the issue you're experiencing with your Torque Tuned. And irrespective of the shaft length on the Torque Tuned motor, it probably won't have enough grunt to push the SA along. You need something like the SS BZ, or a 13.5T or lower brushless motor

I can't wait to get mine painted and running, just need the weather to warm up enough to paint. Enjoy!

 

 

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Guys 

Thanks so much...it looks like you understand my issue completely!!!

So, Juhunio ...your advise is to use the 53922 pinion.... and he 85T 05 mod spur gear 51248....all are available on ebay here in the states

the kit does include a 82T spur gear...but I'll pu the other

I've  paint mine and I'm building the kit now....i found some Aluminum Dampers from Tamiya....looks like you have alot of trick hop ups for your SA...I'm liking the wheels!!

Spending a lot of $, my wife is out of town, she blow a gasket when she sees the credit card statement!!

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11 minutes ago, ^Smith^ said:

So, Juhunio ...your advise is to use the 53922 pinion.... and he 85T 05 mod spur gear 51248....all are available on ebay here in the states

the kit does include a 82T spur gear...but I'll pu the other

I think that combo (85/23) is as high an FDR as you can get if you decide to stick with the 05 mod gearing. I don't think Tamiya make an 05 spur with more teeth, or an 05 pinion with fewer! There are probably some 3rd party 05 pinions out there with fewer teeth, but they're pretty hard to find

Beyond that you're looking at the 48p conversion, but that's more $$ and sounds like you're already in hot water on that front :lol:

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I'm sorry...as much as I think I know, I really don't...what is FDR??

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34 minutes ago, ^Smith^ said:

I'm sorry...as much as I think I know, I really don't...what is FDR??

Final Drive Ratio; motors have an FDR 'range' within which they operate comfortably and don't overheat. Cars have an FDR range created by the combination of spur, pinion and other gears in their gearbox. By working with different size combinations of spur and pinion gears you can change the output FDR of your car to suit the desired FDR range of your motor 

It gets explained very nicely towards the end of this thread

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What can I say, But Thanks!!

I think it's great to chat with folks, mostly from the UK...that are as passionate about Rc Cars as I am...It IS addictive, and you (I) never can benefit from another's experience

 

thanks again for taking the time to chat, enjoy your evening, as it's getting close to dinner time in Cardiff,  I need to prepare some lunch

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54 minutes ago, ^Smith^ said:

thanks again for taking the time to chat, enjoy your evening, as it's getting close to dinner time in Cardiff,  I need to prepare some lunch

It’s Friday too. Beer o’clock 👍

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4 hours ago, Juhunio said:

Hi there @^Smith^

Short answer: use the kit 82T spur and a 23T pinion (53922) with the SS BZ and you're pretty much good to go, and if you can find the 85T 05 mod spur gear (51248, from the DF03/DF03ra) you buy your motor a little more breathing space

Longer answer....

I've literally just finished building my SA chassis, I haven't got as far as painting or running yet, but I can help a bit :)

The SS BZ is a perfect choice I think, and its FDR range (9-11) is achievable with the kit 82T spur gear and a 23T 05 mod pinion (9.22). If you can get hold of an 85T spur gear that gets you to 9.6, which is a bit better. There is also the option to switch the spur to 48p and use 48p pinions which offer a lot more flexibility, but that's a different rabbit hole. I went there, but it's up to you

The SA doesn't have any plastic bushings, its ball-raced / metal bushings throughout so you have no issues there either

The next bit isn't my direct experience, but what I have read on here based on the experiences of others. @Jonathon Gillham ( think?) has written before that stock silver can motors don't have long enough shafts for the SA, so I guess that's the issue you're experiencing with your Torque Tuned. And irrespective of the shaft length on the Torque Tuned motor, it probably won't have enough grunt to push the SA along. You need something like the SS BZ, or a 13.5T or lower brushless motor

I can't wait to get mine painted and running, just need the weather to warm up enough to paint. Enjoy!

 

 

Yep thats the same problem I had, silvercan motor shafts are too short. Its a shame as silvercans are perfect for my backyard. I run a Super Stock RZ in mine.

If you are buying a new spur and pinion anyway then look at 48p as mod .5 are almost impossible to find. Team Associated B4 spurs fit or the Tamiya TRF201 and come in a range of sizes. Then you can buy any 48p pinion (I buy Yeah Racing hard coated from RCMart for about US4 each). If you do you also need the slipper pads to match, and you need to ream out the hole slightly to fit but thats it.

https://www.amainhobbies.com/kimbrough-48p-slipper-spur-gear-69t-kim302/p462753?v=166400

https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-associated-slipper-pads-v2-asc9611/p742834

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Jon

 

Thank you!!

The Kimbrough slipper spur is available from 69 Teeth to 90 Teeth...it's the 69T that you recommend??

 

Thanks much for your reply!!

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I tried the 87T spur in mine and think it was a bit too big. So definitely smaller than that. Beyond that, it depends on your motor.

For example, if you bought the 84T spur,  pinions ranging from 20T to 30T would give you an FDR range from 7.2-10.8. Based on the info that comes with the motors, that range is good for Super Stock brushed and Tamiya 10.5T brushless or Hobbywing Quicrun 10.5, 8.5 and 6.5T brushless motors in a 2WD buggy. Which will probably be bonkers fast. 

With the 78T spur that 20T pinion now gives you 6.7, in range for a more mellow 13.5T brushless hobbywing motor in a 2WD buggy. With the same spur a 24T pinion would have you in range for a 10.5T brushless motor. With the 69T spur the 30T pinion is giving you an FDR of 6.0, ok for the 17.5T quicrun. Mellower still. Etc etc 

You get the gist! 

So I would suggest you choose your motor first, then pick the spur that’s going to give you the right maths across a range of pinions to give you some flexibility to tweak the FDR and find the motor’s sweet spot 

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J...

sorry I didn't mention I'm gonna try the Tamiya SS Motor Type BZ

I'm not a speed freak, just a backyard guy not that I have anything against competitors 

If is makes any sense I enjoy the build more than the run...I do play! but not much more than that...

That said, I want to learn... picked up the hobby 3 years ago...addictive!!!

my wife tolerates it, but I spend a lot of $, it's all good though....just checked time in the UK ...almost bed time

thanks for your all your help

I'll be in touch...how the weather in Cardiff...looks like you're close to the coast...Im in the north Country, New Hampshire, US...snowed today

thanks again

michael

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1 hour ago, ^Smith^ said:

Jon

 

Thank you!!

The Kimbrough slipper spur is available from 69 Teeth to 90 Teeth...it's the 69T that you recommend??

 

Thanks much for your reply!!

Everything @Juhunio said is right, choose your motor then base your gearing on that.

I bought the 69T and 81T which gives me the option to run the Super Stock or 17.5T brushless. I race stock class buggies which are 17.5T and blinky mode and they are plenty fast. I also have spare 17.5T motors so gearing for them was a logical choice. Properly geared even relatively high turn brushless motors are crazy fast. 21.5T stock touring car isnt that much slower than 13.5T super stock or even mod touring when you comoare lap times.

The spur gears are relatively cheap so I don't mind having a few sitting around, and they use the same slipper pads which are the expensive part.

I'm currently running the 81T spur, not sure of the pinion but it looks small, probably around 22T (I run 35 - 45T pinions in my race cars which are giant by comparison).

If you do go brushless I would pick up a Hobbywing 10BL120 or SkyRC TS120, but then look at other brands for motors. Surpass make some great motors for far less than the established mainstream brands.

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