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wtcc5

wtcc5's Thunder Shot buggy family

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Quick add of the penultimate upgrade:

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Must be a **** good feeling, to install this NOS tuning part from the old days!:lol:

Way cooler than digging out the spare Rere single parts from the Terra Scorcher...:)

And cool driver mod! :wub:

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Interested to see how you fine the rear bar. I took mine off because this chassis seems to have so much steering compared to rear grip i found it better without the rear bar. 

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@ThunderDragonCy:D I wondered the same thing some hours ago. It is pretty stiff and lifts the opposite tire a lot.

 

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8 hours ago, wtcc5 said:

@ThunderDragonCy:D I wondered the same thing some hours ago. It is pretty stiff and lifts the opposite tire a lot.

 

It is VERY stiff. I made one out of thinner wire but it still made the car even more on the nose. 

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Does this stabilizing bar come standard with the kit or it a hop up option?

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Only supplied with terra scorcher for the rear

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1 hour ago, taffer said:

Only supplied with terra scorcher for the rear

thank you for the reply, so it should not be in the TD kit. not that im disappointed but it might be a useful thing to do if the handling is lacking a bit.

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I assure you (imo) the handling of a default tshot or tdrag down to 20t is brilliant (I use 23t superstock), more so as the tyres go bald, the rear anti roll bar makes the terra understeer too much and much harder to skid turn....not as much fun

I wouldn't install one on a tshot or tdrag

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A firmer rear anti roll bar should reduce under steer, adding it or using firmer front anti roll bar increases under steer ie harder to keep a line. It may **** a rear inside wheel. Go too hard on the arb and it is not good over rough ground. That’s how you tune real cars so would expect similar in the scale cars.

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I’m feeling this thread. I think I saw this on FB. I recognized the motor. Nice work and nice grab on those vintage Parts

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8 hours ago, taffer said:

I assure you (imo) the handling of a default tshot or tdrag down to 20t is brilliant (I use 23t superstock), more so as the tyres go bald, the rear anti roll bar makes the terra understeer too much and much harder to skid turn....not as much fun

I wouldn't install one on a tshot or tdrag

thank you for the reply. i dont doubt the steering of the TD, its a "what if" situation if it would make a difference on a TD.

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Stuff arrived :wub:

4ac1b80e-3629-457e-9qbk0g.jpeg

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Where did you get the Hicaps Kevin? Seem sold out since the first VQS batch...:lol:

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1 hour ago, ruebiracer said:

Where did you get the Hicaps Kevin? Seem sold out since the first VQS batch...:lol:

Tamico has them in stock and Seidel as well ;)

They arrived at the stores yesterday morning.

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Oh, totally missed that! Was wondering the whole time, if there will come another load...;)

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The last tuning parts for the Fire Dragon arrived from HongKong :)

85e7a5fd-497c-4768-bakjja.jpeg

 

I also build the Hi-Cap dampers. I love the look... but thats about it -_- The red O-rings kill their smoothness, the springs are too long (not just for the Dragon) and have too much preload if build as manual suggests. I also find the holes in the pistons too large.

So, to adapt them to the Fire Dragon, I will have to do a „wtcc5 thing“. I keep you updated ;)

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Here now my struggle report with the Hi-Caps.

 

First build as manual suggests:

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They look nice! The build was ok.

As mentioned, the red O-rings are no good and got replaced by blue ones. A design flaw is also the oil seal together with the cap. The seal has a little greater diameter and therefore the cap has to be pushed over it, turning the seal the whole time while closing the damper. I couldn't build one without air. That is really disappointing. Maybe the mistake is on my side, I don't know... How do you guys build these?

I then put them on the Dragon, which is no problem.With these springs the Fire Dragon has a lot of ground clearance and no downstroke reserve. Not really what you want for a buggy. Additionally the rear springs are preloaded a lot with the Y1 shim inside. In the end I was not happy with this outcome. In the original Terra Scorcher manual Tamiya even recommends Hi-Caps.

 

A lot to do to fit these to the Dragon. I started with the springs. I have a spring set for my Durango DEX410v2. The front spring has a perfect length for the rear Hi-Cap damper:

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This already is a perfect combination. The buggy loses its ridiculous ride height, has good downstroke and no excessive preload. Also the spring rate suits an offroad buggy more.

 

For the front this mod was not so easy. I remembered having soft touring car springs (bright red). These are nearly the same spring rate as the Hi-Cap front springs and shorter. Ride height was good then, but overall these springs are too stiff and nearly don't compress under normal preload, which is not good for the downstroke. So this idea was abandoned quickly. Only one solution: fitting the Durango front springs to the Hi-Cap front damper. As the Hi-Cap damper takes a lot of length away with the upper and lower spring retainers, I could solve this problem with a new design:

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It worked very good and I decided to do that mod to the rear dampers, too, to make the rear Durango springs fit.

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This was a great improvement. If now the front and rear shocktowers would be 5mm higher, it could be perfect. The oil seal limits the uptravel of the piston...

 

 

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In between I also added the aluminum suspension mounts and the shafts.

The XTRA SPEED parts are very nice in fitment and quality:

- front

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- rear

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The front part came with 4 shafts, allowing to also using them for the rear or having two spares.

 

As @taffer recommended I added shafts to the upper links too:

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The right side is very easy to equip, the left front needs to shorten the shaft by 2.5mm (no problem), the rear left lets you push the shaft inside the gear housing (no collision), so I wonder how to keep it from falling out... @taffer: what did you do at this corner? 

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Some more pictures of the Fire Dragon in its current state:

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1 hour ago, wtcc5 said:

In between I also added the aluminum suspension mounts and the shafts.

The XTRA SPEED parts are very nice in fitment and quality:

- front

f0bb113d-6d15-472c-byhjpd.jpeg

3a6c9bf6-7fdb-487c-94rj94.jpeg

29a1c550-bf3e-4a54-8h7kjn.jpeg

 

- rear

c814107b-8830-4057-9slk61.jpeg

ad41235e-5ac1-4a59-9hbkbr.jpeg

cfd340ed-675d-4ec8-8r9kzp.jpeg

 

The front part came with 4 shafts, allowing to also using them for the rear or having two spares.

 

As @taffer recommended I added shafts to the upper links too:

2f5a66e5-0d1c-4c83-am4jr3.jpeg

f49ff540-329b-48d1-amzjbm.jpeg

0180f100-eef1-403c-bwtkl2.jpeg

c1408182-0e48-4064-ahejra.jpeg

The right side is very easy to equip, the left front needs to shorten the shaft by 2.5mm (no problem), the rear left lets you push the shaft inside the gear housing (no collision), so I wonder how to keep it from falling out... @taffer: what did you do at this corner? 

I opened the gear housing so I could install the e-clip.

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48 minutes ago, taffer said:

I opened the gear housing so I could install the e-clip.

Ah! Thanks! I wasn’t sure and was too lazy to try :D

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Hi Kevin, 

you´re not the only one crying on the Rere Hicaps. I think I commented at least twice in different threads.

Same problem as you: Bladder is from CVA shocks and not the perfect fit. Only solution for me and @Juhunio was to fit the bladder in the topcap, and screw down the cap very slowly, to give the excessive oil a way to escape, without compressing the bladder (and reducing the possible volume compensation).

Otherwise it´s impossible to built them without air. Another possibility could be building them as aeration style, using an O ring instead of the bladder or cut out the inner part of the bladder. Bleeding I would do over the rod guide then. (In principle it works like building the Tamiya sleeved dampers then.

 Tamiya red orings are history for me, too. There are much better alternatives today. I tend to use the revolution racing white O-rings for my Vintage racers and all my CVA´s, as they are a very good compromise for smoothness, runtime and tightness.

Kind regards,

Matthias

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I disassembled the rear and added the last e-clip:

7155906f-9baf-46f3-91kjub.jpeg

 

And then the Hi-Caps had to be optimized a bit more.

@ruebiracer:  Thanks for the info!

I came to the same conclusion with the oil seal in the cap. Maybe with a little different workflow.

 

That is how I build the Hi-Cap without air and 5mm rebound:

1. With the shock build without cap and already oil in the shock body, I fill oil to the top edge of the shock body, then also fill the cap (with the oil seal pushed in it) with oil until the point it wants to flow over.

2. Put the cap on the body and screw it on some turns.

3. Hold the shock so that eventually trapped air (from step 2) could move up to the bleed channel in the shock body thread.

4. Push the piston fully in and let the excessive oil bleed out. With no pressure left, screw on the cap some more turns.

5. Repeat step 4 until the shock cap is fully assembled (take your time!).

6. You will end up with pressure inside the housing, so for the last step turn the shock upside down and with the rod fully inside the shock, slowly unscrew the cylinder end. At some point the pressure will push out oil. Tighten the cylinder end again if the wished amount of rebound is achieved.

 

I rebuild all for dampers with this method and they are perfect now, smooth and no air.

 

As the Thunder Dragon buggy family has build in downstops in their arms, I removed the piston rod shims on all four dampers. The fronts also got flatter oil seals to allow a maximum piston stroke:

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As expected by me personally, it´s already a very special Fire dragon!:lol: If you see a single WTCC thread, you get to know the perfection route...;)

Thank you very much for sharing your procedure Kevin, maybe I´ll adapt the prefilling of the cap, too! Have to practice...

By the way, what bladder did you use for the fronts, guess a non Tamiya, as it is clear?

It´s a little bit sad , that Tamiya didn´t bring the Hicaps with the original topcap design. I rebuilt an original set of mine with new NOS bladders and new O rings, and it´s foolproof, to get airfree and reboundfree shocks. :wub: 

Brought me back building my first set for my Vanquish in my youth...

Another question: With your laydown spring seat, do you have to space out the lower end from the wishbone to get full articulation? Guess that is maybe the only "drawback" I could find on your solution?

 

Keep on the good work,

Matthias

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