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Tamiya USA rant

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I am so fed up with Tamiya's nonsense regarding kits in the United States.  I honestly don't know who's fault it is, but Tamiya USA is the only place in the US to get several kits, but they are at absolute extortion prices.  I understand Tamiya USA is supposed to 'protect' LHS and US based online retailers, but between Tower/Amain/Fusion, or any of the local shops near me, none carry most of the kits that Tamiya USA is hoarding and charging ridiculous prices for.  If Tamiya USA is the only place in the US where you can buy a Super Hotshot or a Novafox, who are they protecting with these high prices?  Why can't anyone else get stock of the kits that seem exclusive to Tamiya USA?  Total BS...

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I have not looked at Tamiya’s financials but my guess is they have been struggling for a long while from lack of newcomer interest, stiff competition from China, etc.?
 

I don’t agree to pay higher prices if they are readily available elsewhere, but at some point I think we need to appreciate they are even still around and kits still available. 

$485 is a moderate price to pay for a special (is it ?) RC kit, but if you want it that bad it’s really not so bad, I don’t think.  At least you are not paying a common premium of over $1000 - 3000 for a vintage NIB..

 

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5 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

I have not looked at Tamiya’s financials but my guess is they have been struggling for a long while from lack of newcomer interest, stiff competition from China, etc.?
 

I don’t agree to pay higher prices if they are readily available elsewhere, but at some point I think we need to appreciate they are even still around and kits still available. 

$485 is a moderate price to pay for a special (is it ?) RC kit, but if you want it that bad it’s really not so bad, I don’t think.  At least you are not paying a common premium of over $1000 - 3000 for a vintage NIB..

 

It just seems to be price gouging to me.  Of the few kits that both Tower and Tamiya USA have, Tower is at least 30% cheaper, and that's before the coupon.  If every place was asking almost $500 for a Fighting Buggy, then I wouldn't have much to complain about.  But only Tamiya USA is asking that price.  $822 for an Egress when they were in stock.  $570 for the upcoming TFE.  $482 for a Super Hotshot.  Those aren't normal prices.  And I understand they are artificially high to protect hobby stores. But the hobby stores aren't even getting the kits.  So there's a problem somewhere.  TUSA is hoarding all the stock that comes into the states, in which case they are doing the exact opposite of protecting the LHS and online retailers.  Something is fishy and not adding up. 

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I think they are doing this partially out of survival.  Yes, they probably are manipulating the demand by not openly making certain kits available, but that also brings appeal.. where not everyone can get a hold of the ‘special’ kit.  

Does that make any sense?  I don’t know, as a M38 Willy collector myself, I don’t see value in a WildWilly2 kit going at $200 even though that is more affordable.   I own a few of them, but not as desirable or discrete as a hard to get original Wild Willy kit which cost many times more.  It is a hobby and the car is only worth what you are willing to pay.

I hope you find a path to getting a hold of your Super Hotshot.

 

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51 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

I have not looked at Tamiya’s financials but my guess is they have been struggling for a long while from lack of newcomer interest, stiff competition from China, etc.?

...

 

I would say the problem is the opposite for a couple of reasons. If you can't move stock, you generally drop prices, but we haven't seen that. Also Tamiya is foremost a model company that happens to make RC cars. So while RC would be a significant part of their business, I doubt it's the main part. Plus late last year Tamiya Japan were saying because of the pandemic, they were seeing a huge spike in demand and couldn't keep up. I wouldn't imagine if they had limited production for what they can make, they'd be putting the modelling side of the business first.

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It’s good to hear Tamiya appears to be doing well the last year.    Honestly if they can keep going that is all I ask at this point.  This has been a dying industry with an aging demographic.  It was just a matter of how steep the downward slope was.  Maybe the pandemic was a defibrillator for them.. hope they can continue to grow from this temporary bump in demand.  
 

But again, $485 for a special kit may not be so bad.   I don’t know enough about the Super Hotshot to determine how special it is.

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Try the dealer locator on the site.  If you have any local, call them and see if they can order directly from Tamiya.  Tamiya USA's price is intentionally high to protect dealers as they want you to order from a dealer.  If you don't have anyone local, try emailing RPP Hobby.  They didn't seem to plan to carry the Fighting Buggy, but I emailed and they checked with Tamiya and put it on the site.  One COVID frustration for me, I have a great LHS but unfortunately he doesn't want to use email to do business and Tamiya has zero phone support the pandemic (or at least he can't seem to reach anybody).  That has made me have to go to other dealers like RPP.

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Tamiya USA is one of many official "agents" or importers of Tamiya Inc. products in the world.  Basically, Tamiya Inc. sends product to each agent to service the retailers in each region.  In theory you visit your local hobby store or your regionally-appropriate online retailer, buy a kit from their inventory, and that inventory comes from the importer/agent, who in turn gets it from Tamiya Inc. in Japan.

It's not in anyone's interest to hoard inventory; everyone makes more profit the more they cycle inventory.  Therefore, if you're not finding Tamiya RC products at your favorite retailers, it's because they're not ordering them from the agent and not stocking them.

There's no conspiracy for Tamiya Japan or Tamiya USA to hoard kits and charge higher prices; the more inventory they turn, the better it is for them.  I think the reality is Tamiya enthusiasts are the minority in the US RC market, and therefore it's in the best interest of retailers to stock other brands that sell more often (they want to turn inventory as well).  So, if a retailer has historically moved more of other other brands, they're going to continue to stock more of those other brands.  If a retailer is selling lots of Tamiya, they'll likely continue to do so.

My local hobby shop used to stock 1-2 Tamiya kits on the shelves, but they had dozens upon dozens of Associated, Kyosho, Losi, Axial, and Traxxas.  I was pretty much the only person who ever came in looking for kits and paint; everyone else was buying race-grade kits to run on the outdoor dirt track or indoor carpet track, or buying extreme bashers to take to the park.  There weren't many people interested in building a "model suitable for radio control."  So if my local hobby shop is like many other local hobby shops or online retailers, then the only reason Tamiya USA has stock of certain kits is because the retailers aren't carrying them.  Talk to your retailer and see if you can get a better price.

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AsiaTees has the Super Hotshot in stock for $270 and their shipping is very reasonable. 

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You really have to pay attention. Sometimes, TamiyaUSA posts incredible deals. I bought an FF03 Civic for $142 this past December. And last May, I was able to buy the re-re Bruiser for $500.

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6 hours ago, A-Baum said:

I am so fed up with Tamiya's nonsense regarding kits in the United States.  I honestly don't know who's fault it is, but Tamiya USA is the only place in the US to get several kits, but they are at absolute extortion prices.  I understand Tamiya USA is supposed to 'protect' LHS and US based online retailers, but between Tower/Amain/Fusion, or any of the local shops near me, none carry most of the kits that Tamiya USA is hoarding and charging ridiculous prices for.  If Tamiya USA is the only place in the US where you can buy a Super Hotshot or a Novafox, who are they protecting with these high prices?  Why can't anyone else get stock of the kits that seem exclusive to Tamiya USA?  Total BS...

DM me

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1 hour ago, RichieRich said:

Sometimes, TamiyaUSA posts incredible deals. I bought an FF03 Civic for $142 this past December. And last May, I was able to buy the re-re Bruiser for $500.

I understand the sentiment in this thread overall, particularly whilst worldwide supply getting to hobby stores has been an ongoing issue through the pandemic, with demand spiking against a challenged manufacturing and supply chain situation.  I think I’ve always recognized TUSA”s pricing reflects their role in the distribution chain as much as anything, but I have occasionally bought direct from them in the past when some great deals have been around on end of line products (this being the exception, rather than the rule). Last year I bought a 84132 TA05-VDF chassis kit for $249, which was a bargain!  

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Tamiya Japan is the same, I'm afraid.  There's a Tamiya Playfactory store about 20 minutes by train away from the main Hobby Shops in Akihabara here in Japan.  Prices are insane there as well.  It's really only a last resort for me, and even at that I only buy small parts or paint colors I simply cannot find elsewhere.  Kit prices are generally 30-40 % higher than the local hobby store just 20 minutes away.

It is a bit bewildering to say the least..  

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Tamiya Germany is much worse i think :D

 

About a Year ago i visited my local Hobbyshop to get a few Paits and Parts. I did want so buy some Servos and a new Radio.

The Shop said "we are not a RC Shop anymore" i asked why and they said that Time got hard, they concentrate on Plastic Modeling and they have troubles to get Stuff from the RC manufactures because they are just a small Shop.....

I said "But Tamiya is a good old fashioned Familybuisness that is concerned about their Customers" - he laughed loud and said that they are the Worst in the buisness.

He asked me if i tryed just once to order something from Tamiya Germany by myself. He explained that they never have the Stuff in their warehouses, the shipping takes a lot of time and the comminication is a Pain.

He said that he not even tries to order from Tamiya Germany anymore, if he needed things (the Time it was a RC Shop" he ordered elsewhere, either Tamiya Japan, Tamiya USA or at Tamico (as Customer) to get the Parts the Customers want or need.

 

I don`t know how much of that is true and how much was "bad mood", but the last Time i was on the Webpage of Tamiya Germany, it seeed to be last updated years ago :D

The only thing that really shines is the presentation at the Toysfair in Nürnberg.

 

Tamiya Japan has a nice Internet presence, with their Youtubeshow etc.

Sadly i don`t understand Japanese....

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Prices are only going up too. Recently I bought a TT02 mustang GT4 from ebay for $121 shipped I think. Just got multiple notifications from Tower, HobbyTown that same kit was back in stock for $173. 

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@speedy_w_beans pretty much nailed it. As I and others have suggested before, I think Tamiya USA (and likely other official Tamiya importers) is at the mercy of Tamiya Japan. I question the amount of input they have towards the product Tamiya Japan produces (although the High-Lift concept was supposedly germinated from T-USA) and often seem "in the dark" about things just like us, to a degree. I wonder, while they make orders and suggestions and such, if, in the end, they basically just get what Tamiya sends them. I don't know.

As far as delays and stock status (I know its a broken record) but the pandemic has wreaked everything. Things are going to get pricey. I work in manufacturing and everything is going up, way up. Steel, wood, foam, etc. you name it, has increased dramatically in price. Each person in the chain is simply passing it down the line, eventually to the consumer. Just getting the product is difficult with the current shipping issues and material shortages. In the end, anything that was shaky before the pandemic, is now in trouble. The pandemic exposed a lot of flaws in various systems from manufacturing to distribution. I feel industries that may have been on the slow downslide have been simply accelerated by all this. Movie theaters are likely an example. 

 

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Maybe to add a little more to what I wrote earlier...

Tamiya's production/distribution model exists to aggregate volumes and protect regional distributors/retailers from each other.  We as consumers buy individual kits, but the local retailers hope to have several customers and will stock multiples of that kit if they think they have a hot seller on their hands.  The retailers buy multiples of the kit, but the distributor/importer/agent hopes multiple retailers will purchase stock.  Of course, Tamiya schedules and runs batches of kits based on agents ordering multiples of the kit.

This model probably worked OK pre-Internet sales.  Now, if a USA customer chooses to purchase a kit, body shell, or something else from a Hong Kong retailer, he's completely bypassed the regional retailers and importer/distributor/agent.  A different region's retailer and agent have made the sale.  So it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, because the regional retailers and importer would certainly stock more if those customers would buy from them, and those customers would buy from them if they would stock more.  In this age of (near) instant gratification, the distribution/retail chain can't react quickly enough and the customer just orders from almost anywhere in the world from whoever can fulfill the request.

One of the problems with this is sometimes customers buy product from an out-of-region retailer, something goes wrong, and then they expect service in-region.  Tamiya USA put up a notice a few years ago about "gray market" items and not providing service for them, and that is well within their rights to do so.  Since the customer purchased it out of region, Tamiya USA never made any margin on it, yet service to that customer costs them something.  With shrinking revenue and rising service costs, that's no way to run a business.  I think historically this parallels the situation with some camera equipment; if you're on an overseas trip and buy a camera lens, then try to get service for that lens at home, it might be a hassle or a no-go.  It's not unique to just Tamiya.

If you think about it, each person in the value chain has misaligned incentives.

  • The consumer wants good/fast/cheap/plentiful/convenient as much as possible, and buys locally or places his order with a retailer based on some combination of those factors.
  • The retailer is a business and wants to turn maximum profit, which means he stocks whatever sells fastest and whatever he is making the best margin on.  In many cases this is RC product that is not Tamiya.
  • The agent is also a business and wants to turn maximum profit, which means importing and selling whatever retailers are seeking in sufficient quantity to justify a cargo container of product.  Since he doesn't want retailers undercutting each other and therefore driving some of them away from the product/brand, he sets a MAP price so every retailer is on a level playing field.  It's not great for the consumer, protects individual retailers a little bit, and helps the agent spread out his inventory and maintain a larger marketing presence.  Tamiya USA instituted MAP pricing for this reason and justified the pricing based on the perception of it being a "premium" brand.
  • The factory wants to turn maximum profit and does so through operational efficiency, aggregating orders, locating production in lower cost regions, reusing common kit parts, etc.  It does the same thing to agents that agents do to retailers, meaning they will police agents and retailers that are cutting into other agents and retailers territories excessively.

So I think in the pre-Internet retail environment, this model worked OK, but what we've seen post-Internet is that Internet businesses tend to undercut brick and mortar businesses, and opportunists in other regions will sell to end consumers out of region.  Each time an Internet retailer fulfills an order, a local hobby shop loses that revenue.  Each time a retailer in Hong Kong fulfills a UK or USA order for product, the agents and retailers in the UK and USA lose out on that sale.  Of course, we as consumers will continue to buy from Hong Kong as long as they have product at a reasonable price, are willing to sell to us, and shipping times are faster than working through the regional entities.  We tend to goal-seek and will buy in-region, out of region, and even from kit breakers on eBay.

It's a bit chaotic and seems to suggest there ought to be a better way.  But better for whom?  How do you optimize this to make everyone in the chain happy?  It would be interesting to compare the RC situation with the plastic model situation, where I think Tamiya has a larger fan base.

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Thanks @speedy_w_beans.  Great posts.  Im old as dirt and still feel like I have a lot to learn about supply and distribution and what drives all these decisions.

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2 hours ago, Willy iine said:

So OP, are you going to get the Super Hotshot?  :lol:

Lol I already got a super hot shot, ironically from a hobby shop in Ontario Canada about 6 months ago because the exchange rate is favorable and nobody else had any stock. The shipping negated much of the exchange rate savings but whatever.

it's just a general rant that the place that has artificially high prices to protect hobby shops is the only place that has stock.  Take the Novafox which I also already have. None of the main US online shops ever had pre-orders or even a mention of the Novafox on their websites.  None of the hobby shops within 2 hours of me ever had stock, and I'm not sure they ever had any opportunity at getting stock. But there it is on TUSA website for almost $300, in stock.  It's just fishy to me.  And asking $822 for an egress that nobody else ever had either.  Something just seems really broken.

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31 minutes ago, A-Baum said:

it's just a general rant that the place that has artificially high prices to protect hobby shops is the only place that has stock.  

I agree the supply chain in general for the RC hobby is kind of broken, not just Tamiya. We just see the elephant in the room here because we are Tamiya fans. 
A lot of US and Canadian RC fans are deep into the “Extreme” basher segment of the market.  Sure, crawlers have made In roads but that still leaves a lot of other on road , scale  and just plain “fun “ and quirky stuff in a huge blind spot. 
Add that to all the distribution and price issues mentioned in this this thread and it leaves much of Tamiya RC invisible to North America market. 

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@speedy_w_beans makes some excellent points.

It seems to me the odd person out is the agent, I am wondering what purpose they serve these days. Surely it would be better for both the hobby store and the customer if the hobby store could order direct fro Tamiya?

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On 4/30/2021 at 11:07 AM, A-Baum said:

Lol I already got a super hot shot, ironically from a hobby shop in Ontario Canada about 6 months ago because the exchange rate is favorable and nobody else had any stock. The shipping negated much of the exchange rate savings but whatever.

it's just a general rant that the place that has artificially high prices to protect hobby shops is the only place that has stock.  Take the Novafox which I also already have. None of the main US online shops ever had pre-orders or even a mention of the Novafox on their websites.  None of the hobby shops within 2 hours of me ever had stock, and I'm not sure they ever had any opportunity at getting stock. But there it is on TUSA website for almost $300, in stock.  It's just fishy to me.  And asking $822 for an egress that nobody else ever had either.  Something just seems really broken.

It’s not an artificially high price. The price on TamiyaUSA’s site is the US Retail Price. This price is determined by purchase price cost from Tamiya Japan + freight and customs duties.  This is the full price of the kit.

Resellers like Tower, Amain list the kits at minimum asking price, which is set by Tamiya .. currently at 30% off retail.  With Tower you have the options to use their coupons to bring they price lower.

This same formula applies to Kyosho and even team associated. All three offer deals on kits from time to time, yet the preference is for you to buy from an LHS / Reseller.

Now, the issue majority of  LHS carry do not list all of Tamiyas kits, or even Kyosho for that matter. So you need to find one that can special order it for you.  Tower used to accept special orders, however once horizon bought them that ended. Amain might be able to order it for you.. try calling them. 
 

 

 

 

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On 4/29/2021 at 9:39 PM, RichieRich said:

You really have to pay attention. Sometimes, TamiyaUSA posts incredible deals. I bought an FF03 Civic for $142 this past December. And last May, I was able to buy the re-re Bruiser for $500.

I seen that the Bruiser re release was $500.00 on sale last year. Do they do sales like that every year or is it always different? 

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I think depends on stock level or need for cash (?)

I grabbed one too.. but haven't built it yet.  It is one of my decorations in my RC shop.   Honestly I should've grabbed like 3. 

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