Jump to content
mcvwuk

Cost to upgrade a Sand Viper to MS spec

Recommended Posts

Hi,

Could anybody advise an approx cost to upgrade a standard Sand Viper (this one) to 'MS' spec?

Note: I'm not entirely sure what MS spec - I've seen the term banded about a lot - and I'm guessing all the components that make up this 'spec' are all worthwhile?

Also, the Viper stands me £45 - though I do need to get a radio/handset (again, any advice welcome).

Thank you,

Mike

May be an image of outdoors

No description available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to the gubbins you get with a standard Sand Viper kit, the MS has the following included:

 

ITEM 51205 Front Astral Dish Wheels

ITEM 53881 Rear Large Dish Wheels

ITEM 53926 DF-03 Aluminum Damper Set

ITEM 53863 DT-02 Ball Differential Set

ITEM 53791 DF-02 Assembly Universal Shaft

ITEM 53831 DT-02 Aluminum Motor Heat Sink

Steering Tie-Rod from ITEM 53828

Hard Turnbuckle Shaft from ITEM 53942/53943

ITEM 51000 High Torque Servo Saver (Black)

You might also need a few other little fixtures and fittings to add the upper adjustable arms that typically come with a Sand Viper kit, as I see your chassis has the fixed length ones fitted.

No idea about the cost though, I suppose it depends on where you source the above items and how long you are willing to wait for postage.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just finished a similar project. My Sand Viper is near MS spec. The DT02 was a free gift from one of my RC-friends so my starting point was good. Tonight at home I shall take some pictures and tell you more about the upgrades.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the upgrades being worthwhile, they all look very pretty, but but I am not convinced that they are all extremely useful. For example, the heatsink is in two parts, a disc that fits between the motor and gearbox, and a set of vanes that clip onto the motor. The former works well, but the latter shorts out most motors other than a silver can or a brushless with the connections on the back plate like a Speed Passion for example.

Universals are another questionable one. I am sure that they are are a distinct benefit at the front of a four-wheel drive, but on the rear of a 2-wheel drive, I find their benefit to be minimal, at least in my experience. I see your chassis has plastic dog bones, axles and outdrives, so you might want to simply go for the all-metal dog bone arrangement that comes with the Sand Viper kit instead.

I would also question the usefulness of a ball diff. I find them fiddly to set, and once you have it at the desired setting, it tends to wonder by itself. These days I run a gear diff filled with a suitable amount of grease, which maintains its settings and requires minimal fiddling.

Finally, the hardened turnbuckles with their black steel and blue alloy finish certainly look nice, but the the plainer looking silver DT-02 turnbuckle set works just as well and is both cheaper and easier to source.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Laudable goal, but by the time you've bought all those bits with the money you could have bought a proper racing buggy :)

Better just to get some decent shocks, new bearings, couple of pinions, nice hot motor :)

If you have any change left get someone to paint a shell for you in the MS/TRF colourway. 

note: this logic didn't stop me from taking a stock DB01 to DB01RRR spec...but there you go.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my DT02. I took some ideas from The Racer website. Cost of all parts is difficult to define. I found parts everywhere and had good deals.

- ball bearings are of course standard on the Sand Viper. 

- hi torque servo saver

- ball connectors where possible

- DF03 dampers

- heat sink

- steering improvement (see The Racer)

- low friction suspension shafts (see The Racer)

- steel pinion 19T

- home made brace

- Carson Cup motor

What I did not add is the ball diff, to difficult for me to maintain.

 

dampers small.jpg

IMG_20210410_151640.jpg

pinion small.JPG

motor mount small.JPG

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You probably don't care as you'll be replacing so much, but the dampers and upper suspension arms are not from a sand viper. Maybe a lesser dt-02 with a sand viper body on it? So it might well not be fitted with bearings.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Adbar said:

You probably don't care as you'll be replacing so much, but the dampers and upper suspension arms are not from a sand viper. Maybe a lesser dt-02 with a sand viper body on it? So it might well not be fitted with bearings.

I'm not sure I agree with you. All images and video's I've found of (standard) Sand Vipers look the same as mine (wheels, suspension, body mount etc). But hey - it'll be fun cleaning it up and replacing/upgrading bits as I go :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mcvwuk said:

I'm not sure I agree with you. All images and video's I've found of (standard) Sand Vipers look the same as mine (wheels, suspension, body mount etc). But hey - it'll be fun cleaning it up and replacing/upgrading bits as I go :)

This is a stock image from Modelsport.  There are a couple of differences:

58374_b.jpg

The bits that stand out the most are the shock absorbers and front upper arms.  Your car has blue friction dampers which look like they are from a Holiday Buggy, the pic above has black oil-filled shock absorbers, which are a good shock for the money (and better than most cheaper alloy shocks).  Yours has solid upper suspension arms (the front has a neat hole through the middle for the shock absorber) but the pic above has an adjustable arm made from a metal rod with a ball adjuster on each end.

The less obvious parts would be bearings - the Sand Viper came with full bearings from the factory but the Holiday Buggy didn't, bearings are a must if you're doing any upgrades at all.  Also I can't see what size motor is installed from your pics, but the Holiday Buggy came with a smaller motor, the Sand Viper has a regular 540 size.  You can buy a motor plate to fit the 540 motor if it isn't already fitted.

None of this is a problem - if you go MS spec you'll be looking for the DF-03 alu shock set and turnbuckles anyway, which will do away with the bouncy blue shocks and solid upper arms.  Actually if you just wanted to drive and have fun without chasing MS spec hop-ups, there's nothing wrong with the solid arms (assuming oil shocks fit through the holes in the front - I've never tried that, I don't have those arms).

:)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Mad Ax said:

This is a stock image from Modelsport.  There are a couple of differences:

58374_b.jpg

The bits that stand out the most are the shock absorbers and front upper arms.  Your car has blue friction dampers which look like they are from a Holiday Buggy, the pic above has black oil-filled shock absorbers, which are a good shock for the money (and better than most cheaper alloy shocks).  Yours has solid upper suspension arms (the front has a neat hole through the middle for the shock absorber) but the pic above has an adjustable arm made from a metal rod with a ball adjuster on each end.

The less obvious parts would be bearings - the Sand Viper came with full bearings from the factory but the Holiday Buggy didn't, bearings are a must if you're doing any upgrades at all.  Also I can't see what size motor is installed from your pics, but the Holiday Buggy came with a smaller motor, the Sand Viper has a regular 540 size.  You can buy a motor plate to fit the 540 motor if it isn't already fitted.

None of this is a problem - if you go MS spec you'll be looking for the DF-03 alu shock set and turnbuckles anyway, which will do away with the bouncy blue shocks and solid upper arms.  Actually if you just wanted to drive and have fun without chasing MS spec hop-ups, there's nothing wrong with the solid arms (assuming oil shocks fit through the holes in the front - I've never tried that, I don't have those arms).

:)

Yes, you are correct - and I was maybe a little hasty with my previous reply (my apologies @Adbar). Both the front and rear upper suspension arms are solid and the shocks are indeed the blue friction dampers. I've dismantled most of the chassis and can see that the front 'bearings' look to be of a white plastic nature. So maybe it was a Holiday buggy and they switched the wheels and body mounts?

Where would be the best source (UK) to obtain the black oil-filled shocks, adjustable suspension arms and bearings - and a Holiday Buggy rear body mount (as I have a spare Holiday Buggy shell)?

Thank you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll want the CVA shock sets for the dampers.  Fronts should be 70mm which you can build with set 50519 CVA Mini Shock Unit set II, rears are 95mm so you'll need set 50520 CVA Short Shock Unit Set II.  This is different to the alloy set that comes with the MS but are fine for general use and club level racing.

DT-02 turnbuckle set is 53828.  Not the same as the one on the MS but serves the exact same purpose.

For parts like the above, I just type the part number into Google and see what comes up.  If you can find all the parts in stock at a single store you might save on postage.  UK stock may be a bit short for Tamiya hop-ups at the mo, so you might have to hunt around or wait for them to come in stock.

Bearings - any good model shop should sell a DT-02 bearing kit, if not then rcbearings.co.uk will have them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I just dropped in to my local RC model shop and I know that the motor works (and is a 540). However, I was told that I would need a new speed controller, and rcvr. Is it not possible to use an older style crystal radio with this? I don't mind spending a bit on the buggy, but not loads just to get it running :(

Anybody have an older style radio set that would work with this for sale?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless there is a fault with the equipment you have currently fitted to the buggy, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot use a 27MHz crystal radio with it. There is also no reason why you cannot use a more modern 2.4 GHz radio with it. The TEU-101BK speed controller that you have fitted lacks a BEC, but your receiver has one built into it so that is not a problem if you are using a crystal radio. And if you want to use a 2.4 gigahertz radio, you can either run an external BEC, or you can choose one that comes with a receiver which can accommodate a higher voltage. The receivers my wife and I are using in our cars can handle over 9 volts, so running them without a BEC presents no problems.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your Sand Viper has the lower spec friction shocks etc because it came from a ready-to-run version with the remote control etc.  It's basically a low spec DT02 chassis with the Sand Viper name and body.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the info. It sounds like my local RC shop was giving me duff information! I don't think I will be going back there again!

I have found a radio, rcvr and esc (flysky gt2 + rcvr and a tbl105esc) for sale locally (for £20) so I'll hopefully have them by next week

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, mcvwuk said:

Thank you for the info. It sounds like my local RC shop was giving me duff information! I don't think I will be going back there again!

They probably didn't know to be fair.  They would've seen the name Tamiya Sand Viper and looked it up assuming it was the kit version.  If it wasn't for the shocks being bright blue almost anyone could make the mistake.  Why Tamiya chose to release an RTR DT02 chassis as the Sand Viper but with lower spec is anyone's guess, but it does needlessly complicate things.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Blista said:

They probably didn't know to be fair.  They would've seen the name Tamiya Sand Viper and looked it up assuming it was the kit version.  If it wasn't for the shocks being bright blue almost anyone could make the mistake.  Why Tamiya chose to release an RTR DT02 chassis as the Sand Viper but with lower spec is anyone's guess, but it does needlessly complicate things.

I hear what you're saying - and yes, I could give them the benefit of the doubt - however, they categorically said, "that rcvr wont work anymore - crystal radios are dead and won't work. You will need a new radio and rcvr", he then quoted me £45 for a non-branded radio and a hobbykit rcvr, and then added, "plus that esc won't work with any new rcvrs cos it takes power from the rcvr", and again pointed out a new esc (£20+).

Which by their basis I would be £60+ down and still need a battery. Hardly helpful/friendly advice to a noobie...??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, nothing wrong with the radio/esc you have there, they should work fine.

guess you can’t blame them for trying to sell more stuff at the moment, but still.....

I had a Sand Viper way back when, did a Madcap colour scheme, great little buggy

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, mcvwuk said:

I hear what you're saying - and yes, I could give them the benefit of the doubt - however, they categorically said, "that rcvr wont work anymore - crystal radios are dead and won't work. You will need a new radio and rcvr", he then quoted me £45 for a non-branded radio and a hobbykit rcvr, and then added, "plus that esc won't work with any new rcvrs cos it takes power from the rcvr", and again pointed out a new esc (£20+).

Which by their basis I would be £60+ down and still need a battery. Hardly helpful/friendly advice to a noobie...??

What a complete load of codswallop!

It saddens me greatly to hear of hobby shops doing this, and you are not the first person I have heard such tales from. I know that brick and mortar hobby shops are having a harder time than ever these days, but that is no excuse. One of the few areas where they still have the upper hand over online sellers is in the ability to offer good, honest, face-to-face advice from experienced hobbyists. If they are throwing this away to chase extra sales, they are really not doing themselves any favours at all.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the subject of which, would this be of any interest to you?

2021-05-10_09-44-24

 

I was going through a box of gear earlier, and found this which I had forgotten that I had. I think it may have come with a RTR M-03, so would likely be the same one as would have been supplied with your model in its original RTR form.

Free to collect, or if you arrange shipping from your end.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

What a complete load of codswallop!

It saddens me greatly to hear of hobby shops doing this, and you are not the first person I have heard such tales from. I know that brick and mortar hobby shops are having a harder time than ever these days, but that is no excuse. One of the few areas where they still have the upper hand over online sellers is in the ability to offer good, honest, face-to-face advice from experienced hobbyists. If they are throwing this away to chase extra sales, they are really not doing themselves any favours at all.

Ooops I should say playing devils advocate!!! I am not sure you can get a 27mhz transmitter any more from a retail shop? Therefore the only option would seem a 2.4g set up. As a responsible seller looking to form an on going relationship beyond this sales, it seems the right thing to do. Anyone asking me what to buy for RC car fun, I would not suggest 27mhz and crystals. Anyone in the know would just search ebay and pick up an handset second hand. So i think the suggesting is a good one.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hedge said:

I am not sure you can get a 27mhz transmitter any more from a retail shop? Therefore the only option would seem a 2.4g set up. As a responsible seller looking to form an on going relationship beyond this sales, it seems the right thing to do. Anyone asking me what to buy for RC car fun, I would not suggest 27mhz and crystals. Anyone in the know would just search ebay and pick up an handset second hand. So i think the suggesting is a good one.

It is one thing to suggest an upgrade to 2.4Ghz, quite another to tell outright lies about needing one. Had the seller said "Sorry, we don't stock 27MHz sets - you might need to look for a secondhand one. Alternatively we can sell you this nice new 2.4GHz one" and then gone on to explain the advantages of 2.4GHz, I would have no problem with them. But saying "that rcvr wont work anymore - crystal radios are dead and won't work. You will need a new radio and rcvr" is an outright lie and not a good basis for an on-going relationship with a customer, as the moment said customer realises that they have been lied to, the chances of the relationship continuing are dramatically reduced.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

It is one thing to suggest an upgrade to 2.4Ghz, quite another to tell outright lies about needing one. Had the seller said "Sorry, we don't stock 27MHz sets - you might need to look for a secondhand one. Alternatively we can sell you this nice new 2.4GHz one" and then gone on to explain the advantages of 2.4GHz, I would have no problem with them. But saying "that rcvr wont work anymore - crystal radios are dead and won't work. You will need a new radio and rcvr" is an outright lie and not a good basis for an on-going relationship with a customer, as the moment said customer realises that they have been lied to, the chances of the relationship continuing are dramatically reduced.

These were my thoughts exactly - although I wasn't 100% (or even 50%) sure of the correctness of their reply. But when they said, "So, would you just like the battery and charger for now", I was 100% sure and I politely declined. And I'm afraid they've almost inevitably missed out on any future business from me. Shame, as there aren't many R/C shops in West Sussex!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm doing a 2010 holiday buggy dt02 to a falcon(not neo) using a sand viper body but in the box are of the original falcon....done the body added CVA yellow shocks ,kept the holiday yellow wheels on.....now just waiting for falcon decals...IMG20210513235500.thumb.jpg.cc831747e6ccd5975245d34625e3d585.jpg

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...