Current state of the re-release market

[Saito2 6686]

Many of us here at Tamiyaclub love re-releases. The question is, aside from us, what is the state of the re-re market as part of the whole RC community? While Covid has probably thrown a wrench into this picture (what hasn't Covid messed up at this point?) do you think the re-re market is cooling, going strong or even growing? Some players like Associated got in and out of the market. Schumacher seems out at least for now. Tamiya, while still the strongest producers of the re-release, seems to have slowed their output of new re-res, while bringing back older re-res multiple times. Kyosho is doing a wonderful job creating really special, genuinely improved re-releases. Let's hope their newest owners see the value in these because I can't wait to see more from the Kyosho back catalog. While I think the re-re phenomenon was far from a flash in the pan, it's certainly settled down. Many speculate it will dry up as our generation grows old and/or moves away from the hobby since re-res hold no special nostalgic value to the younger generation. Any thoughts or predictions where it will go from here?

[markbt73 5316]

I don't think we're quite done yet, but we may be approacing the beginning of the end. Tamiya doesn't seem too keen on bringing back any more platforms; they seem content to keep recycling what they've got. I doubt at this point that any of the remaining heavy-hitters that people have been pining for (Falcon, King Cab/Hilux, 959/Celica) will make a re-appearance in their original state. We may see the bodies come back; a 959 on an MF-01X still seems like an easy one to me, and the King Cab body would look great on a CC01. But I would be (pleasantly) surprised to see any more all-new re-releases.

Kyosho may be cooling off as well, now that they have gone the "Wild Willy 2" route with the USA-1 truck. I'd guess that we'll get an Optima Mid still, and then a Turbo, and then a Lazer, but after that I wouldn't expect much. I do applaud them for keeping things in production, however; nothing they've brought back has been discontinued yet, I don't think.

I still hold out hope for Marui. Even if they just did the Big Bear and the Ninja, I think they'd sell every one they could make. But I guess toy guns and RC tanks are too big of a business for them to bother.

What would be amazing is if some company did for extinct RC brands what Round 2 has done for static models and slot cars, and brought them back under one umbrella. Imagine if one company bought the molds and the rights to Nichimo and high-end Nikko and Royal (why not?) and Yonezawa and Varicom and others, and made limited runs of re-res. Who wouldn't buy a Nichimo Spirit FF or Panda stock car re-re, even if it's made in China, just to see?

Lastly, I really hope something comes of this Hirobo Zerda rumor. I'd love to get my hands on a re-re of that car.

[markturbo 136]

Hopefully they keep coming. Sales should pick up again once we get over covid. I wish I would have picked up a schumacher cat xls when they were still available, now they are listed on ebay for 3 times as much.

[silvertriple 3557]

Honestly, I don't know:

Covid has changed a lot of things, either in good or in bad ways. The fact is, I did came back to R/C cars after 35 years not thinking about it, and it was probably because of Covid. I'm not alone in this case. And for us coming back on this, re-releases are also part of what we are looking for first, because it reminds us our childhood. When discussing around, it seems the result of this is:

• Increased demand for re-release and parts for restoration of old models
• Increased prices for used cars
• lots of shortages

I was in the market for  Kyosho Turbo Optima and Javelin since I went back to R/C. I learned that Kyosho is making two batchs of production for those every year. Part of one of the batch was delivered recently in France shop. They went out of stock within few days, not even a week (on years previous to Covid, it was apparently months). I believe the market is bigger to what productions are currently... It seems that some manufacturers are considering coming back in the market with some re-release: Hirobo is part of those apparently. On my side, I would dream to see Marui releasing some of their R/C cars (Samurai, Shogun, Tbird Coors for example)...  The real question is about the duration of this situation. Are all the people coming back to R/C those times getting in for long? Some sort of response on my side, but not sure it is valid for everyone : when I restarted, I got my kids starting with me. My son, 13 years, is all about R/C currently. I was all into R/C at the same age. Will it last is a key question...

 

[Fuijo 880]

I think the re-release market, and RC market in general,  is starting to decline.

I've just seen an Avante Black Special go on ebay for less than I paid for mine just after the second batch was available in the usual shops, and a Wild One go for only 8 Euros more than I paid for one of the last available shop stock ones.

I put this down to people starting to lose interest as lockdown restrictions ease. Personally I don't think it's worth Tamiya, or anyone, putting money into new significant re-releases right now.

[Saito2 6686]

I agree that lockdown restrictions were probably a boost for the RC industry in general but this progress will slow to pre-Covid levels as life gets back to normal. Even if Covid never happened, it seems like some of the re-release thrill had cooled. I think if a company is geared for it (like Tamiya) and it sells, we'll still see re-releases, possibly in smaller, "safer" batch numbers. On the other hand, I don't see a company like Losi (who lost much of their original tooling and such in a fire) investing a ton of money to re-re the JR-X2. I could be (and hope) I'm wrong. The Losis have admitted they still get request to bring the JR-X2 back. Associated still gets plenty of request for the return of the RC10 but much of the tooling was lost in China after the last RC10 re-re. Its up in the air if they'll ever remake it. The Worlds cars languishing on shelves probably doesn't help matters. In the end my feelings are, if its cheap/easy enough for a company to do (like Tamiya recycling their re-releases) and it makes some profit we'll continue to see them from time to time.

[Sprocket 52]

I would have to agree that things are starting to cool on the Reres, I just hope Kyosho still launches the Optima Mid series

[Saito2 6686]

2 hours ago, Sprocket said:

I just hope Kyosho still launches the Optima Mid series

Same here. Fingers crossed.

[Wandy 1527]

The re-release scene isn't dying or faltering in any way at all. Cooling? Maybe, but that was always going to happen, in a similar way that all of those vintage kits and parts that were awash on ebay between 2002 & 2012 were always going to run out of supply eventually. As long as Tamiya are in the business of making RC cars there will always be a retro section of their RC porfolio. It's a niche market that they themselves created 17 years ago with the reintroduction of the Hornet and it has been nothing but lucrative for them. I think the whole re-release scene probably reinvigorated the company's RC division on a huge scale and most likely played a part in reviving the RC hobby in general. Sure, we have now passed the peak period between 2009 and 2014, where they were bringing back 3 major kits per year, but to say that the scene is dying out, to a point where it will no longer exist, is way off the mark. With each passing year a new bunch of kits enter the "vintage" category and therefore are ripe for a re-release.

What Tamiya do seem to have done in recent times though is release kits in batches, in a similar way that sneaker manufacturers like Nike do, to generate hype around a release and also maybe a FOMO in their customer base. Whether that's a commendable thing to do is up for debate. But I think the last 12 months have simply added new recruits to the re-release scene, and while some of them will move on once the pandemic is firmly in the rear view mirror, I think plenty of them will become re-rooted in the hobby like many of us have been over the last 20 years.

You have to remember that they are actually running out of iconic kits from 1976 to 1995 to release. So they need to space them out more than they have done in recent years. Those other icons will come, in time, though. 

[finder75 60]

I have noticed that the re-release concept has become fragmented as more brands join the movement.

We have Tamiya ,the pioneers in re-releases, providing almost exact duplicates ( sometimes with mindful touches to preserve the originals desireability ) of some models ,other models are presented "in the spirit of" due to the originals design or durability for todays users.But each model is very much "of it's era" and it's original design was based around 540/sport tuned motors and nicad/nimh batteries.

Then we have Kyosho who have provided re-releases that are effectively " made for today " by way of material choice,designed to use brushless/lipo and hardware that all cater for modern use.For the purist ,perhaps less of the original translates over 

Schumacher went down the route of exact replica but provided the option of additional upgrades to allow modern day motors etc.

Team Associated did the same to a lesser extent.

So between these brands , we get models that are either the same or arguably better than before,enough of the essence of the model is there to qualify the name etc.

But there seems to be another sub group emerging.

To explain ,think of it like this ...If  Tamiya re-re Hornet is 100% "back in the day" type model and a Kyosho Turbo Scorpion re-re is a "made for today" model and the Schumacher Cat XLS is somewhere inbetween , then Traxxas have presented some models with a "nostalgia" of a "back in the day" they never had.Like the TRX4 Bronco sunset version.or the drag cars.

Maybe Traxxas would simply call it "retro" ,a capable chassis with an old school body?

But this "nostalgia" or "retro"approach ,as seen by Traxxas and some other brands , could really provide some fantastic models.

Let's hope we see more of the "Back in the day" , "made for today"  with the character and soul that made the originals stand out and hopefully some "new retro"  models that capture the same essence.

[A-Baum 352]

I think it's partially a mess because they struggle to actually deliver re-re kits they announce.  Information is scarce.  Tamiya treats their pipeline and delivery schedule like the Manhattan project.  But as far as slowing down, it seems that most/all kits coming in are spoken for via pre-orders.  

[Big Jon 684]

I'm becoming a bit disenchanted with Tamiya's rereleases. Maybe it's the materials, maybe it's the lack of parts support, maybe it's the high cost compared to modern race cars. I'd be a lot more likely to pull the trigger on a new Top Force Evo if it came with reinforced plastics, hex screws, and a set of wheels that fit modern rubber, for example, and I've wanted one since they were new. I can buy a Turbo Optima rerelease for a lot less, and I won't have to worry about breaking plastics or replacing every single piece of hardware, or even searching for the expensive, rare parts required to keep the thing running.

I've enjoyed my rereleases quite a bit. I'll keep running my ORV stuff, the Super Astute is a lot of fun, and I'll probably pick up a Thundershot-chassis car soon, but a Turbo Optima and Turbo Scorpion are coming home as soon as I can get them. They're simply a better value than a VQS, Top Force Evo, or Avante, and are capable of being driven frequently with modern power (10.5 for 4WD, 13.5 for 2WD) without constant repair. 

Take the DF03, which was originally released in '06. The plastics, rear diff, lack of a slipper, and rapid drive gear wear were all issues fifteen years ago. I can buy a brand new Dark Impact today with the exact same issues, the slipper clutch is unavailable, and, if I could find one, still comes with the soft gear.  While the chassis design is fine, it should be updated slightly, just like the re-res should be updated slightly.

[finder75 60]

1 hour ago, Big Jon said:

I'm becoming a bit disenchanted with Tamiya's rereleases. Maybe it's the materials, maybe it's the lack of parts support, maybe it's the high cost compared to modern race cars. I'd be a lot more likely to pull the trigger on a new Top Force Evo if it came with reinforced plastics, hex screws, and a set of wheels that fit modern rubber, for example, and I've wanted one since they were new. I can buy a Turbo Optima rerelease for a lot less, and I won't have to worry about breaking plastics or replacing every single piece of hardware, or even searching for the expensive, rare parts required to keep the thing running.

I've enjoyed my rereleases quite a bit. I'll keep running my ORV stuff, the Super Astute is a lot of fun, and I'll probably pick up a Thundershot-chassis car soon, but a Turbo Optima and Turbo Scorpion are coming home as soon as I can get them. They're simply a better value than a VQS, Top Force Evo, or Avante, and are capable of being driven frequently with modern power (10.5 for 4WD, 13.5 for 2WD) without constant repair. 

Take the DF03, which was originally released in '06. The plastics, rear diff, lack of a slipper, and rapid drive gear wear were all issues fifteen years ago. I can buy a brand new Dark Impact today with the exact same issues, the slipper clutch is unavailable, and, if I could find one, still comes with the soft gear.  While the chassis design is fine, it should be updated slightly, just like the re-res should be updated slightly.

I agree, maybe Tamiya could look into re-releases that have modern materials etc. Tamiya have eventually used glass and carbon filled composites in hop up parts plastics, and their touring car Evo's and TRF's so why not in the re-re's?

It's hard to excuse using ABS for a high end kit when even a "cheapo" china made rtr comes with grp wishbones etc .

I also agree that Kyosho seem to have realised what RC'ers of today have available to them in terms of materials and hex hardware,brushless and lipo etc.

 I too have enjoyed my re-re's but I find myself realising that if i want to run my Tamiya re-re of the moment ,the sense of dread at breakages or such is prominent in my mind .

This is made worse when you know the wheels and tyres / bodyset /decals/parts trees are all seemingly only available on Ebay for $$$$ ,really dampens the spirit of having a fun run around with the car.

 

[Saito2 6686]

1 hour ago, Big Jon said:

I'm becoming a bit disenchanted with Tamiya's rereleases. Maybe it's the materials, maybe it's the lack of parts support, maybe it's the high cost compared to modern race cars.

 

1 hour ago, Big Jon said:

, but a Turbo Optima and Turbo Scorpion are coming home as soon as I can get them. They're simply a better value than a VQS, Top Force Evo, or Avante, and are capable of being driven frequently with modern power (10.5 for 4WD, 13.5 for 2WD) without constant repair. 

This is pretty close to my feelings. I'm actually ok with the materials remaining true to the originals (though upgraded plastics would be very nice) but if that's the case, then the prices should reflect that. I was ok spending big bucks on special releases like the Avante, Egress, Bruiser and SRBs and I felt the lower end stuff like Lunch Boxes were priced accordingly (though that stuff has been creeping up). Some, like the Bigwig and standard Top Force seemed pretty reasonable. The Super Astute seemed high but I went along with it. Despite really wanting a VQS, the price was just silly in my eyes. I couldn't justify it using a shred of logic (fortunately for Tamiya, re-res are often a passion/emotional purchase which handily bypasses reasoning in the logic centers of our brains). After that, I became a lot more careful with my money. There was no way I was laying out the money for an Evo. It just doesn't hold the same place in my heart that the Egress does. It simply can't be that much better than a standard Top Force either, strictly looking at the performance angle of it. The beautiful models Kyosho is re-doing certainly doesn't help the case for Tamiya in my eyes. The lack of spares, the here-today-gone-tomorrow rush to buy/gotta get mine/limited numbers game has grown very thin and I'm just going to stay out of it to spare myself the frustration. 

In the end, this all just my opinion and what works for me. If others feel differently, that's perfectly fine. Tamiya can legitimately charge whatever they please. If the market supports that and prices me out of it, well, that's life. There's not "right " answer or wrong way to enjoy the hobby.

[A-Baum 352]

Tamiya is in a tough spot. What if they announced a Falcon re-release but many of the parts were upgraded and the plastic was quite different.  What would the Tamiya community's take on that be?  I think there's a chunk of people who are more nostalgic than anything and would be upset it wasn't more true to the original.  You'd have some folks happy that it was more durable and usable.  Would it hurt sales?  Possibly.  Tamiya seems to be in the nostalgia business more than the RC car business.  And I guess they are catering very closely to that market.

[finder75 60]

18 minutes ago, A-Baum said:

Tamiya is in a tough spot. What if they announced a Falcon re-release but many of the parts were upgraded and the plastic was quite different.  What would the Tamiya community's take on that be?  I think there's a chunk of people who are more nostalgic than anything and would be upset it wasn't more true to the original.  You'd have some folks happy that it was more durable and usable.  Would it hurt sales?  Possibly.  Tamiya seems to be in the nostalgia business more than the RC car business.  And I guess they are catering very closely to that market.

It is a tough one for Tamiya , re-re's that have been done "in the spirit of the original" have met mixed opinion.

And I find that the nostalgia is strong , but with it comes the knowledge of experience, and that I find is frustrating.

As an example ,I bought a Terra scorcher re-re because it was the 2nd Rc car I had as a kid , but i KNEW I had to get a G5 alternative ... and a steel pinion ...and maybe not use the wheels and tyres cos I'll never find another set ... and screw pins and circlips have been superseded for good reason ... etc etc 

These things were considered "mods" first time around but now I feel like they should have been acknowledged or even incorporated or included perhaps.

And as Saito pointed out , imagine dropping alot of $ for a VQS ..in the knowledge you might want to also get a bunch of the plastic shock tower plate things .. or repro decals .. and a steel pinion .. maybe a hi-torque servo saver .. some extra ball races if ness or a handful of any other parts that history of the original has proven to be rare. 

I guess from a business point of view it is win win .but from a hobbyist point of view it feels like de ja vu ,correcting the same short comings ,but this time around there is a stampede for the parts for originals aswell as re-re runners.

 

[Saito2 6686]

I think I'd be happy with Tamiya just altering the known weak spots. IMO, its ok if the re-res from Tamiya only handle the approximate power levels from back in the day. What would be nice is an improved A5 Terra Scorcher part rather than the weird aluminum motor mount plate when the stamped steel one was fine. Why did the Blackfoot get universal swing shafts (which probably created even more problems) instead of strengthened gearbox side plates to fix the diff separation issues? Why include a thicker gearbox plate in the Super Astute rather than full bearings on a kit that expensive? We, as Tamiya enthusiast, know the ins and outs of these issues but imagine a newcomer buying a Blackfoot, only to be ruining diff gears ten runs in with the stock silvercan. The Tamiya company is a strange beast at times. I don't know, I going off on a tangent here...lol.

[finder75 60]

Hahahha a strange beast indeed   Just goes to show how muddled I got ... I meant the A5 for the terra scorcher and said the G5 cos I was trying to remember the parts sprue for the VQS with the shock tower mount plate thing in it  Tamiya should have a browse through this site , they have 30+ years of free RnD on the original models right here

[Raman36 1657]

Tamiya has made one thing clear. They will beat to the sound of their own drum. They have no care for anyone’s opinion outside of Japanese market. 
 

When they do a re-release, they do as they like and what fits for them. Here it is, buy if you like it and if it’s not close enough for you, well too bad, because they person standing to your right is going to buy it and we will sell out of it.

The reasoning, no two RC lovers will agree on what a re-release should look like. There will always be some complaint and discontent. 
 

If they change the plastic, one person will be happy another will be annoyed. If they use the old shock, why didnt they fix the leak. If it’s a new design, why did they change it. 
 

Re-releases will continue, but some are probably not viable to be re-released by factors we will never know.

I do hope that we get a 959 some day. If it’s on top of the Mf-01X, I would be very happy. Makes the most sense as it is rear motor 😉 

If it’s on original chassis, I’d be content as well but wouldn’t do back flips like most.. as the chassis is as durable as peanut brittle.  Then there is the livery, will we get the Rothmans? 

[Morinstal 170]

Where is thunder dragon rere?? Have been waiting for some time, but there is none in local market. Only bunch of VQS and tt02.......

To be honest, i only wait for thunder dragon, after that going to limiting my rc spending XD

[Killajb 1546]

Quote

When they do a re-release, they do as they like and what fits for them. Here it is, buy if you like it and if it’s not close enough for you, well too bad, because they person standing to your right is going to buy it and we will sell out of it.

I'm hoping the recent VQS release was a lesson for Tamiya.  Here in Japan, the shelves are still filled with boxes of them.  I read reviews, and decided like others that I wasn't willing to spend that much for what is being offered in return.  By no means am I trying to insult those who purchased and love this kit, rather I'm just sharing the inventory that I notice out there.   

I sincerely hope RC manufacturers realize that there's a sweet spot at the intersection of product quality, specific model and price.  Re-release a King Cab for the same price as the VQS?  Probably sell out of them during pre-order.  Re-release a magenta chrome series Gravel Hound?  Lucky to get any pre-order money at all.  Even simple stuff..  Mud Blaster for example:  ORV chassis is prevalent.  Subaru Brat body is prevalent.  Re-re that in some kind of funky color with a chrome chassis and watch the money come raining in.  Throw the awesome Lunchbox body on a shortened CC-01 chassis even..  we've all ranted to ourselves like this I'm sure. 

[Big Jon 684]

Just to continue beating this dead horse, MAP for a TLR 22 5.0 DC Elite is $369; MAP for a VQS is $339. The 22 is a top tier race buggy while the VQS never was, and the 22 requires nothing to be run hard frequently with hot mod power. Comparing materials, one is full of carbon fiber, 7075, spring steel, and carbon plastics, while the other is ABS.

It's getting hard to justify, even for an enthusiastic Tamiya fan.

[moffman 5752]

On 5/22/2021 at 2:08 AM, markturbo said:

Hopefully they keep coming. Sales should pick up again once we get over covid. I wish I would have picked up a schumacher cat xls when they were still available, now they are listed on ebay for 3 times as much.

Yeah they are up for crazy prices at the moment! They are a fantastic buggy but a bit temperamental my one broke just sitting on the shelf🤔 

[moffman 5752]

I think its inevitable as we come out of the rubbish we're in at the moment things that keep our minds occupied will taper off?  if you remember back in the early 2020 the shelves of the online hobby shops were basically stripped as we clambered for kit to occupy our minds as a good percentage of the working public were furloughed with basically nothing to do other than build and order online so I don't really see even the likes of schumacher parking the re-release programme's they may slow down and to be honest probably not a bad thing because it builds up anticipation!

[Willy iine 18806]

While I don't mind re-releases, I still prefer having the original.. especially finding them NIB and building them.  If I was racing I would run the re-re's, but the entire concept is around nostalgia.. so why not just get the real deal (just talking about me).  

That said I collect M38 Willy's but never really liked the WW2's all that much.  I own several of them, but not exciting to me as the original.   Part of the issue I have with my re-re Bruiser is just that.   I'm worried I won't like it as much as the original; therefore have not built it yet.