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Tex76

My first SRB (early Rough Rider)

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Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm a 45 yo quite eclectic hobbyist (I started with military modelling and RC Cars when I was about 10, whereas nowadays I'm mainly a fantasy miniature painter) with an enduring interest in vintage RC cars, Tamiya especially: my first one was a Grasshopper, which I loved (and unfortunately tore) to bits, followed by a ThunderShot and a Porsche 959, which came as Christmas presents from the family; during my teens I managed to collect other interesting models, such as a Kyosho Salute dismissed by a friend and a 2nd hand, never run, RC10 Graphite from my LHS.

More recently I eventually acquired two models I had only dreamt of when they originally came out: an Egress and an Avante, the latter in particular being the buggy of my dreams (I'm now conscious of its foibles, but to my eyes it's still one of the prettiest things ever made).

Whereas I ran extensively the Grasshopper, the TS, the 959, the Salute and the RC10 back in the day, the Egress and the Avante have seen only a little mild use, both for lack of time/space and fear of breaking something on them.

More on my collection in future topics, though.

Today I've decided to introduce myself to celebrate the acquisition of my first SRB (a chassis I've never had any familiarity with as it predates my debut into the hobby, but which I find very interesting for its mechanical characteristics): it's a vintage Rough Rider in very good condition, almost complete and largely intact (as long as I can see it's missing only one of the battery box camlocks, a light cover and the rubber switch cover, the roof is broken, but eaily fixable or replaceable, and the body has two small cracks near the roll-bar clip).

As I've recently done my homework (largely thanks to this forum) I can say I've been lucky enough to get an early production (someone would call it a Mk1) example, as it sports all the older details at once: "BUGY" molded black bumper, little screws retaining the front springs, early gear case, early rear wishbones.

My plan is to disassemble, clean and rebuild it, fix the roof, install some spare vintage electronics I already have and use it for some gentle runs (I want my cars to be in the best possible nick, but I want them ready to be run at will). 

Inspired by some builds I've found browsing the net, with some time on my hands and cash allowing I'd like making some REVERSIBLE mods in order to get a more realistic look and to get it to resemble the real buggies that inspired Tamiya in the first place: in order to do so I'm going to get a spare body to rework the side pods (I'll  need a Super Champ deck, won't I?), some working shocks (I'm intrigued by the RC4WD ones with internal springs), aluminium wheel covers and so on.

That's enough for now, time to let the pics speak for themselves:IMG_20210607_135125.thumb.jpg.db1cb7d9d59ed546b8bad10ea22f0b01.jpg

 

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Sorry, unable to post anything more for now from the pc, as the connection went tits up cause of a storm

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47 minutes ago, Tex76 said:

the roof is broken, but eaily fixable or replaceable

Repair what you can, if possible, to retain the originality . I wouldn't strip the body as it has the og patina . Once you start the resto. process it can snowball . I would dismantle / clean up / repair what I could and rebuild - then shelf duty

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26 minutes ago, KEV THE REV said:

Repair what you can, if possible, to retain the originality . I wouldn't strip the body as it has the og patina . Once you start the resto. process it can snowball . I would dismantle / clean up / repair what I could and rebuild - then shelf duty

Thanks, that's what I'm going to do, basically. I'm probably just trying it in the back garden a couple of times to see how it drives. The original body (rather well painted, btw) is a keeper, of course😉

IMG_20210607_191938.thumb.jpg.f67de00b21f0f2a0f5db90f46f148204.jpg

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That looks great!  Definitely leave the body as is. I bought one a couple years ago from eBay and I can't bring myself to stripping it down and it's not nearly as nice as yours. Mine is solid orange, but it has the decals on it.

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Is there a min time limit to upload pics? it seems  I can't post one after another.

Anyway, I've some questions for you SRB experts:

- by chance, do you know if the lights are the same size and shape as the Grasshopper's ones? If that's the case, I could probably find one in my bits box;

- even if I'm planning to run the car very sparingly, I'd like to install a set of bearings (more for the love of tinkering with it and remove some play); the rear wishbones have the space for an additional bearing at the inner side...does it make sense to install it? From what I've read, it 'd require some sort of plastic sleeve to keep it in place and Tamiya never instructed about fitting any more bearings than planned (12 in total, if my maths are right);

- does the differential set for the re-re cars fit the vintage ones?

- currently the rear suspension are rock hard (for the weight of the car - they move freely if I push them by hand applying some force): is there a way to soften them without replacing the original shocks and bars entirely ?

It seems all the car is missing (bar the aforementioned light cover) are a battery box cam lock&spring and the rubber switch cover...if any of you has any of them lying somewhere please give me a shout: we surely can arrange a deal (I have some ThunderShot parts to trade, if they're of any interest, btw)

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Your Image size might be too big for more than one at a time . The GH lights are totally different from RR lights . The GH has top and bottom halves and the RR has front and back parts like a real light . Buggy Champ lights will fit , as will Fighting Buggy lights .The original bronze bearings can be replaced with ball races , but you might have wear on the shafts where the bronze has rubbed the shafts , the ball race might take some of the slack out of it . The rear suspension has torsion bars which can be adjusted by hand bending them to soften the extreme rear end camber . The dampers are probably gummed up with old oil and are binding . You can strip the but it can be very difficult to get them apart unless you have a good set of tools /Allen keys and some WD40 etc . The lower knurled boss is the killer to undo as are the small allen head grub screws , these allen heads can strip out if you're not careful  , if you take your time it can be done , but these will probably leak once rebuilt - they always did / do .You can buy aftermarket cheap adjustable dampers which you can swap over to run the car then swap back when it's on display . The re-re gears should fit although the RR etc SRB's didn't have diffs. , just fixed drive . Cam locks and springs are still available , as are the switch covers ( these rot when they get old )

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Bit of an update

Unfortunately I've not had much RC time lately, but last we I started to work on the RR:

- wired up and soldered where needed some vintage electronics  (not tested yet);

- fixed the cracks in the roof and roll hoop with the dremel+plastic rod technique I've discovered on here (grazie, @kontemax...figata assoluta!);

- fixed some little cracks in a front tyre with liquid rubber

- tested motor with a battery : motor and wheels turn!

In the meantime I received a re-re roof/driver/lights set, so I should be able to replace the missing light cover (hope they match); I'm still missing the paints I need to touch up the body where needed, as I'd prefer to support my not so local hobby shop in purchasing readily available consumables, at least.

As the RC bug has hit me hard again, I've just purchased a vintage Kyosho Optima, as well:P

As anticipated, I had a Salute, which a (late) friend of mine gave me when he lost interest in it. I really liked its complexity and purposefulness (compared to the ThunderShot I had purchased at the same time), but unfortunately some teeth from the rear differential got stripped (I didn't get a manual and didn't know the chain needed to be checked and tensioned regularly) and I was not able to get a spare, so the Salute was retired with the idea of using it for spares and upgrades for my other cars. This never happened, but somehow and somewhen along the way I dismantled it and to this day I've been able to locate only the front and rear suspensions (shocks, mounts, stabilizers, and wishbones), the wheels and tyres and the motor: basically, I've got nearly all the parts needed to convert an excellent condition Optima into that Salute that still means so much to me. 

Stay tuned.

 

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@Tex76 welcome to the club!  Btw, any pictures of your fantasy miniatures?   I am interested in first knowing what they are and would like to see how the master painters do it.

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3 hours ago, Willy iine said:

@Tex76 welcome to the club!  Btw, any pictures of your fantasy miniatures?   I am interested in first knowing what they are and would like to see how the master painters do it.

Hi, thanks for the welcome!

Fantasy miniatures are just that: miniatures of fantastic creatures, such as dragons, orcs, elves, dwarves...Tolkien stuff, basically. They come in different scales, generally identified by the height in mm of a human miniature (6, 10, 28, 32, 54, 75mm being the most common).

Smaller scales (6->32 mm) are widely used to play RPGs or wargames (such as dungeons&dragons or warhammer), whereas 54 or 75mm are mostly used for display purposes.

In years gone by they generally came in metal and rarely in resin, whereas nowadays the use of metal is very limited, plastic and resin being the mainstream media.

I've always concentrated on minis in the most popular scale of 28mm produced by Citadel/Games Workshop, the big fish in the business.

While being quite handy at painting them (I started around 1990/91, with some breaks along the years), I'm very far from what master painters can achieve nowadays...the most important thing is that I'm happy with the results of my painting efforts, conscious that any finished mini is better than the previous one.

Here are my most recent paintjobs, hope you like them:

IMG_20201101_195435_902.jpg

IMG_20201101_195435_834.jpg

Finito.jpg

IMG_20200511_222814_303_resized_20210618_061132406.jpg

IMG_20200509_194733_694.jpg

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^ Wow!   That is amazing work!!    Thanks for the pictures and explanation.  

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Thanks for the appreciation.

As well as in any hobby, miniature painting is a world apart, with different branches appealing to different kind of enthusiasts: as with RC cars, I'm fond of vintage miniatures (late '80s - early '90s), mainly for the sculpting style, more in line with "traditional" fantasy than their modern counterparts, to my eyes badly affected by influences from videogames, movies and animes.

Painting styles vary widely as well: some painters are true artists not only because of their technical skills, but because of the way they "interpret" a mini, inventing new techniques, effects, favouring a realistic or surreal style and so on.

 

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@Tex76 I think I can understand what you are saying about the appreciation for vintage designs.  I too collect old M38 Wild Willy’s from 35-40 years ago and while it is using ancient designs, some of the parts are extremely well built (like metal ball joints) and some designs still used (drive train bits).  
 

Yes, there is no doubt the newer models drive better and faster, but there is a special flavor that cannot be replicated using modern designs.  I love that vintage flavor.  :D

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Here's the repaired roof..considering it was in 2 pieces, this technique really amazes meB) I even used it to reattach one of the two little pegs at the base of the front roll bar and to repair/fill in two cracks in the back roll bar area, as well.

I subsequently applied some body filler which I'll sand down before repainting; while we're on the subject, which tamiya colour do you think would be a close match

to the blue the previous owner used? While I'm at it,  I'd like to do some touch-ups here and there.

 

154189420_Repairedroof.thumb.jpg.eb469186d5bbb95a5feb16d1f092aacf.jpg

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3 hours ago, Tex76 said:

Here's the repaired roof..considering it was in 2 pieces, this technique really amazes meB) I even used it to reattach one of the two little pegs at the base of the front roll bar and to repair/fill in two cracks in the back roll bar area, as well.

I subsequently applied some body filler which I'll sand down before repainting; while we're on the subject, which tamiya colour do you think would be a close match

to the blue the previous owner used? While I'm at it,  I'd like to do some touch-ups here and there.

 

154189420_Repairedroof.thumb.jpg.eb469186d5bbb95a5feb16d1f092aacf.jpg

As I understand it paint on paint can be a tricky business as some paints react with each other. It’s hard to see from a photo what the colour is but the old Sand Scorcher Blue was often used on Rough Riders, granted from the photo it looks too dark but as I say it’s hard to tell from photos. The blue is Tamiya French Blue TS10, if it was backed with black it may well come out darker.

if it where me (and it is in another thread) I would just strip it all and start again.

Best of luck to you 

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13 minutes ago, hedge said:

As I understand it paint on paint can be a tricky business as some paints react with each other. It’s hard to see from a photo what the colour is but the old Sand Scorcher Blue was often used on Rough Riders, granted from the photo it looks too dark but as I say it’s hard to tell from photos. The blue is Tamiya French Blue TS10, if it was backed with black it may well come out darker.

if it where me (and it is in another thread) I would just strip it all and start again.

Best of luck to you 

Thanks! As a perfectionist by nature, my impulse would be strip&repaint, indeed. 

In this case, considering most of the body came to me in very good condition, I'd give a try at just touching it up (after all, I've got LOADS of different paints and I'm quite accustomed to all sort of experiments with them!)

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Sorry looking at it more clearly this morning it’s not TS10 French Blue as it’s been hand painted not sprayed. Not sure what blue that would be. 
 

The Rough Rider like the Sand Scorcher is a challenging paint job, the arc lines are hard to mask well. Not sure if you have ever looked at the main site here but if you go to resources and car database search for 58015 - the model number for Rough Rider. Now select members models and you can see lots of paint jobs

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=2986&id=365

look forward to see what you get up to.

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Thank you for your input.

The RR in the link you posted looks to be wearing the same blue as mine (which in the first pics I posted was covered in decades old patina...after some gentle cleaning it looks much lighter, but definitely not Tamiya french blue).

As I said, my aim is doing some touch-ups, save the original decals and eventually seal the body with clear lacquer...I'll probably take the roof with me to the LHS to compare to both the spray and the brush paints available.

Update:

browsing the array of RRs as you suggested, I've found out that Tamiya Brilliant blue looks to be the closest match

Many thanks

Edited by Tex76
Update
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The blue could be any make really  . I regularly use automotive paints . As you say a match to actual paints is the best option .You could mix your own acrylic paint and airbrush the roof / brush in other parts .

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Last week-end I've finally managed to run the thing!

First of all, I succeeded in wiring up some left over electronics from some old runners: the receiver is a BEC type and I preferred to take the opportunity to ditch the battery holder and free some space on board; secondly I quickly disassembled, cleaned and rebuilt the rear of the car fitting proper bearings. The process confirmed taht the car has been a very good buy: very well put together and with parts in "as new" condition.

I ran the car body- and lid-less (see pics:P), as I've not purchased a humpback battery yet, and it exceeded my expectactions: I managed not to roll it once despite the ridiculous rear camber and the hilarious suspension set-up!

 

I tried to rebuild the shocks, but I soon realised they're a lost battle, as @KEV THE REV anticipated...I'll leave them as they're for now, for sake of originality: they're pretty useless anyway, as the torsion bars make the rear rock hard.

Not much progress with the roof repairs: I've just added another dab of putty to smooth out its shape; as soon as I'll purchase some kind of primer I'll give it a try with paints.

I'm waiting for some repro decals: in case they're a good match with the originals I'll consider the opportunity to strip the entire body, repaint it, put the new decals on and seal them with lacquer; in case the decals are poor quality I'll just touch the old paintjob up.

A complete restoration to original condition is the task for this summer for both the Rough Rider and the Kyosho "Salute"; the longer term project (reversible, given the car's originality) is to make a Funco buggy/box art RR replica: browsing around I've seen some amazing builds which I'll try to replicate.

A rere body will be butchered up, some proper shocks will replace the torsion bars and springs, a Super Champ deck will accomodate the electronics.

 


 

 

My RR.jpg

My RR2.jpg

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Sounds like a plan . I fitted some generic coil over adjustable oil dampers F&R to one of my SRB's - they bolt straight on

 

 

new roll bars 4 .JPG

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