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Mechanic AH

Can I vent about the hobby? Do you ever?

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Something got on my nerves lately and I'm a pretty laid back and chill person. It did because it keeps coming up in the past few months when I ask a brushed motor question or post one of my build videos, haha. And interestingly, it's mostly Tamiya related. Every time brushed motors come up, there's always a crowd that will surely pop up to tell me to put a brushless motor and lipo--to make things faster and solve everything. Even if my questions have nothing to do with speed and power. Sometimes they even ask (more of a scolding) why I use old technology brushed motors (even if I'm building a kit from that era). It's the one thing I notice more than anything else. As for the brushless motor + lipo power, sometimes I just don't want to be in a rave all day, and sometimes I just want some nuance and the motor to have character. Or I want to reminisce what it was like back in the day. I do have brushless and I have no issues with it. Now that's all out, I feel better. :D

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Having just finished watching a Grand Tour special, I can tell you that what you need is more SPEEEED and more POWER!!!!

And on that terrible disappointment, I'm going to bed.

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Personally I like brushless & nimh. I don't get the burn-down-the-house-with-lipo roulette that so many seem to enjoy.

But I think more to your point (1) a big segment don't understand the strengths of brushed, and I think generally (2) brushless + lipo is the only upgrade some know how to do, so that's what they toss out when they want to contribute. Maybe that's one way to get a silver lining on the situation: they didn't have insight to address your issue, but at least you interested them enough that they wanted to contribute.

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I must be hanging around the wrong people.. most of them aren't interested in electric motors or batteries at all (or RC for that matter!):lol:  But I come here and read about varied opinions in wonder.  It baffles me as to why people form strong opinions either way.  

 

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As a bona-fide RS540 devotee, I feel your pain. For some reason, there is a mindset in this hobby that making a car faster is "improving" it, and if you're not making it go as fast as possible, you're not doing it right. I just ignore them.

Interestingly, I run into the same issue with 1:1 cars. I enjoy lower power there, as well, and there's always someone who brings up adding a turbo, or doing an engine swap, as if it's somehow necessary to throw horsepower at something to enjoy it.

"Slow" is just a dirty word to some people, I guess.

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Brushless motor is not only to go fast, if you use low kv then they are not faster then a brushed.

for me it is the reliability of the brushless motor and motor heat, I run 99% of the time on the beach, brushed motors have an open bell and al the sand gets in them and they wear out fast, I had a brand new sport tuned brushed motor after 6 runs on the beach the brushes where gone.

I had a twin detonater with 2 35 turns brushed motor, everytime I run them in the woods they fail because of little dirty water and mud came in them.

If you like brushed motors and the speed thats fine with my I am not the guy that tell you what to do, but for myself I am not using brushed motors anymore

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If I’m building an early car, first 100, I’d rather stick with the original tech. So I’d much rather put. 540 motor in, I’ve even started putting 380’s back in.

I don’t think Tamiya cars are designed to handle ridiculous motors, I just don’t think that’s Tamiya’s thing.

Just stick to what you want to do. For me I just like to keep it original and simple.

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I think sometimes it's people just not seeing eachothers perspective (big shock getting that on the internet, right?!!). When all i used to do was blast about in a big open park then brushless and fast was my ticket to fun and long run times. Now i race and drive on tracks, i use full throttle maybe 2-3 times per lap, and actually some of my best on road results have been from being smooth and neat with a Torque Tuned in the car. So now i increasingly don't see the point of massive power and high top speeds, but i needed to see both sides to understand. 

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To avoid putting my foot in my mouth, I'll keep it brief. I like and use RS 540 brushed motors and Nimh batteries for the significant majority of my runners. I enjoy them and they work for me. I do not care what others do, nor would tell them what they should do. Its not my business.

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I use old brushed motors all the time.  Old as in literally 40 years old silver cans.  I love them.  

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Brushed/Brushless = horses for courses, use what you will, run what you want.

Batteries though are a different story altogether, there's no reason not to be either using LiPo's or migrating to them, NiMH batteries are (literally) a waste of time and energy.

 

 

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"Driving slow cars quickly" is one of my favorite pastimes! But honestly a 17T brushed motor and 6-cell NiMH is plenty fast for any of my old cars. Still running a 380 in the B-Rat so I don't get carried away and ruin it even further.

And I do ask myself the question: if I ever get a new chassis, would I go brushless? And I think the answer is: probably not. Maintaining interchangeability between all my chassis has always been one of my key goals, and brushless/lipo doesn't fit into that plan. I'm not one to keep spares, indeed many of my cars are barely running at the moment, so if a motor or ESC or something goes down, it's nice to know that I can pull something out of another car temporarily if necessary. And it's REALLY nice to be able to grab any battery and any car off the shelf and go have fun. Simplicity, familiarity, and nostalgia is what keeps me attached to brushed motors and NiMH batteries.

Speaking of familiarity, my slot cars still all run brushed motors too (nobody has made an HO scale brushless motor yet AFAIK). The only brushless motors in my house are the computer fans. The brushed/brushless debate reminds me of the "pancake" vs. "inline motor" debate in slot cars. There are passionate opinions on both sides there as well, and for me it also comes down to interchangeability and familiarity.

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10 hours ago, dannymulder said:

Brushless motor is not only to go fast, if you use low kv then they are not faster then a brushed.

for me it is the reliability of the brushless motor and motor heat, I run 99% of the time on the beach, brushed motors have an open bell and al the sand gets in them and they wear out fast, I had a brand new sport tuned brushed motor after 6 runs on the beach the brushes where gone.

I had a twin detonater with 2 35 turns brushed motor, everytime I run them in the woods they fail because of little dirty water and mud came in them.

If you like brushed motors and the speed thats fine with my I am not the guy that tell you what to do, but for myself I am not using brushed motors anymore

Some of what dannymulder here said is why the SCX24s that Dad and I one are now brushless, I wanted the torque and reliability and Dad wanted the throttle control since it was jumpy with hit 79y/o never used a pistol grip radio and hadn’t used a real handgun since he for I was born, trigger finger.  I was aware of those tiny motors burning out “easily”, though I think there was also help from lack of experience in R/C crawling or even R/C in general, and/or stupidity/lack of “mechanical sympathy” for some of them, but still, no brushes, better efficiency, and, being 1400kv outrunners, amazing torque and low speed throttle control!  Then you have that outrunner just swinging away under the body that just looks so *******in’ cool too!

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Agreed.  Many of the RCers seem to buy into the Traxxas mentality that faster is better.  Tamiya Club members come across as a more realistic crowd that enjoy moderation, scale appeal, performance, safe equipment and recreational use of RC’s.  I’m much more at home on this forum than the masses of narrow minded yahoos elsewhere.

I do find the efficiency and low maintenance of brushless appealing, but as previously stated, it lacks quirkiness and personality. Cars run for novelty get brushed motors.  Those that I run for performance or endurance are fitted with brushless.

As far as batteries, 5000mah is 5000mah, regardless of type.  The weight advantages and marginally different discharge rates are irrelevant to me.  I don’t run wide open all of the time.  Most of all, every one of my 23 NiMH packs are stored fully charged; always ready to run on a moments notice, no waiting to run a car and they are charged during convenient hours of my non-RCing time.  The way I see it is that I can buy 2 NiMH packs for the price of 1 LiPo which equates to double the runtime and zero special handling to avoid a fire. I’ll never be the last guy to charge while every one waits.

Some of my buddies are catching on.  The “extra advantage” of their 3.5t motor lands them into walls while my 17.5t keeps tallying laps. Now they think a 10.5 is a more “reasonable” advantage.

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While I really enjoy the reliability and power of brushless motors, not every chassis needs one. There's really no advantage gained by installing a brushless system in a light car that's run at moderate speeds occasionally, for example, or in anything with a weak or irreplaceable driveline. I use everything from generic 540s to monster brushless systems, depending on the intended application.

I'll never use a NiMH again. LiPo is just too good in comparison, and the fact that they maintain the same performance through the run is enough to make the switch. Even my TX packs are LiFe. Good quality packs are pretty cheap and last almost forever if you treat them with the slightest care. I've never had any safety issues whatsoever with LiPo.

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I have a mixture of brushed and brushless and Nimh and LiPo. I love the old brushed motors like the dynatech, Parma cyclone, demon and so on. They just look so good. For quite a few 4WDs Like top force etc seem to find a brushed super stock and LiPo is a good match for me but I have a shelf top force evolution with a period demon power motor and Tamiya gold nicad set in it. I’ll just use a charged Nimh for a lunch box or monster beetle since I have them and the extra weight helps them. Plus they fit! 
 

I’d started back into things with Nimh since people showed me the LiPo videos of cars in flames but using them was a jump ahead tech wise- the higher discharge rate gives a great boost to those motors that will pull those amps.

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5 minutes ago, Big Jon said:

While I really enjoy the reliability and power of brushless motors, not every chassis needs one. There's really no advantage gained by installing a brushless system in a light car that's run at moderate speeds occasionally, for example, or in anything with a weak or irreplaceable driveline. I use everything from generic 540s to monster brushless systems, depending on the intended application.

I'll never use a NiMH again. LiPo is just too good in comparison, and the fact that they maintain the same performance through the run is enough to make the switch. Even my TX packs are LiFe. Good quality packs are pretty cheap and last almost forever if you treat them with the slightest care. I've never had any safety issues whatsoever with LiPo.

Yes agree on this.

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Thanks all for the comments! :).

I really don’t have an issue with brushless, I don’t have as much of them but I do have a 15.5T, 10.5T and 7.5T on some of the cars I have. As for LiPo, some of the reasons I’m not as invested in them is because I already have a fair number of NiMH packs and I don’t run the cars as much as I used to (I only do for casual runs but primarily testing cars). Aside from worrying about safety (I live in a building) I don’t have the patience or time to maintain them. However, if I do get a modern kit (which I will) that only fits LiPo then I will appropriately use them.

And I clearly understand the advantages of brushless. I do get a lot of people trying to educate me about it even if it's not the topic.

The pet peeve I have is perhaps better sampled with this analogy with beer being brushed and wine being brushless. I’ll ask questions like these (of course these are simplified):

Re: Beer
1. How long does it take for an opened bottle of beer to go stale? Or

2. What food pairs well with this kind of Pilsner? Or

3. What are the flavor profile differences between these two beers, a dunkel vs saison?

Then the answers I’ll get:
1. Wine is far superior than beer.

2. Just get wine and cheese and you’ll thank me for it, and you won’t look back

3. Wine is smoother and the flavor profile is more nuanced. Beer isn’t in anymore

I get that a lot and it’s fascinating especially because they are serious responses. And even in that analogy. I drink both and know when to chose one over the other.

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I have several Lipo packs, but besides checking storage voltage every 3months, I don't use them at all.  NiMH/NiCd for me.  Safer, and can keep them charged for a while with no swelling or fire hazard is a huge plus as I don't know when I will have that 10-15min to drive my RC cars.  I usually have at least a few NiMH packs charged at all times.

I like watching my cars in motion, I don't care to go super fast.

 

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16 hours ago, Alwb68 said:

If I’m building an early car, first 100, I’d rather stick with the original tech. So I’d much rather put. 540 motor in, I’ve even started putting 380’s back in.

I don’t think Tamiya cars are designed to handle ridiculous motors, I just don’t think that’s Tamiya’s thing.

Just stick to what you want to do. For me I just like to keep it original and simple.

Spot on.

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1 hour ago, Mechanic AH said:

Thanks all for the comments! :).

I really don’t have an issue with brushless, I don’t have as much of them but I do have a 15.5T, 10.5T and 7.5T on some of the cars I have. As for LiPo, some of the reasons I’m not as invested in them is because I already have a fair number of NiMH packs and I don’t run the cars as much as I used to (I only do for casual runs but primarily testing cars). Aside from worrying about safety (I live in a building) I don’t have the patience or time to maintain them. However, if I do get a modern kit (which I will) that only fits LiPo then I will appropriately use them.

And I clearly understand the advantages of brushless. I do get a lot of people trying to educate me about it even if it's not the topic.

The pet peeve I have is perhaps better sampled with this analogy with beer being brushed and wine being brushless. I’ll ask questions like these (of course these are simplified):

Re: Beer
1. How long does it take for an opened bottle of beer to go stale? Or

2. What food pairs well with this kind of Pilsner? Or

3. What are the flavor profile differences between these two beers, a dunkel vs saison?

Then the answers I’ll get:
1. Wine is far superior than beer.

2. Just get wine and cheese and you’ll thank me for it, and you won’t look back

3. Wine is smoother and the flavor profile is more nuanced. Beer isn’t in anymore

I get that a lot and it’s fascinating especially because they are serious responses. And even in that analogy. I drink both and know when to chose one over the other.

You summed up asking a question on Facebook perfectly!

I don't want wings and wine. 

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NiMH and brushed for me, although I have a brushless in the Pumpkin QD as it only had space for a 280 and lacked much punch. Brushless motors are great in older cars (especially the toy grade upgrades that I do) where the size of the motor really limits performance, and smaller motors easily burn out.

For normal sized cars that can take a 540, brushed is fast enough for me. That being said a smaller brushless motor may give the same speed but with lower power use and higher efficiency so you can get more run time. Brushless doesn't have to mean insane power.

I used NiMH for safety and ease  I just don't need the power of a Lipo. That being said I use NiMH because that's what the old cars I used to play with used (or NiCd) and just got used to it.

It's good that everyone is different and likes different things. When searching for an RC forum I liked this place as there seemed a real mix of some people wanting modern power and some wanting old school appeal, and neither was right or wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Many of you are mentioning safety wrt lithium batteries and I really think that's a 2010 thing. If you have reasonably modern batteries and charger then they're no higher risk than the battery in your laptop. It's not really a factor these days.

 

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I've nothing against brushed, and those who think all brushed are slow motors, have probably never run a Reedy Mr ? Or a Trinity Nuclear Assault! 

Saying that, it's centuries old tech, but if you're building a steam loco, old tech is part of the charm.

Lipos (or the modern LiHv) are just so night and day better in every aspect, that I don't use anything else. (OK, better power is one big aspect, but lighter weight and more longevity are better, right?) And I'm not sure it takes away any, charm (well, they give more punch...), 

(And as for the ,burn your house down aspect, the only 2 chemistry I've had go pop, are a Nicad bitd and a Nimh) 

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