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Mechanic AH

Can I vent about the hobby? Do you ever?

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I must admit I'm a total fan of the brushed motor and Nimh's simply because you can to a certain degree abuse them and they always bounce back and if you total them it's not the kings ransom to replace or more the case repair!, I do have a couple of brushless combos and a few weeks ago I accidentally totally my fault (not wearing my glasses) mixed up the red/black wires literally a millisecond and that was it the esc was toast and my rather expensive shorty lipo had gone the same way it started to balloon up I quickly put it in the garden luckily it didn't explode😯 so they have really knocked my confidence on using them🤔 yesterday I put a lipo in my cat xls which is brushed and OMG it made a fantastic difference not on speed but it just give it the extra punch the motor needed so I'm at a bit of a crossroads over what to do? brushless is undoubtedly the way forward if your a racer in clubs etc but lipo and brushed is definitely my choice but with massive amounts of care?

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23 minutes ago, djmcnz said:

Many of you are mentioning safety wrt lithium batteries and I really think that's a 2010 thing. If you have reasonably modern batteries and charger then they're no higher risk than the battery in your laptop. It's not really a factor these days.

Agreed. There is the same risk of mobile phone batteries catching fire. How many of us leave them unattended while charging or even sleep with them charging 2 feet from our heads without a second  thought?

There's 2 sides to this same fence. Going back to @Mechanic AH OG post, ask a question & receive irrelevant answers. Ask about brushed motors & nickel batteries, you'll get people telling you to run 3.5T BL on 6 cell LiPo because 'faster' is better, as someone has a mate with a Traxxas who thinks doing backflips at the skate park is fun. Then ask about BL & lithium batteries you get the 'risk of fire' replies because someone somewhere 15 years ago charged one in his shed with the wrong charger, sitting on a timber bench with a can of lawnmower fuel next to it & the shed burned down.

The wine/beer analogy is spot on. B)

It comes back to running what gear is suitable for your needs. Asking the right questions & getting relevant, informative replies.

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I like fast cars (brushless and lipo) but I have brushed motors and nimh on my vintage cars, in hopes that I blow up fewer drivetrain parts. 

I also don't worry much about what other people think.

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22 hours ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

every one of my 23 NiMH packs

That's like 100 amp-hours of power!!!

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Now that the brushed/brushless thing has been talked about, I’m going to #2 part of the vent series, :lol:.

#2 The Shelf Queen and Basher/Runner debate.

Well, not much of a vent as I’m more of a spectator in this. First, I don’t care what people do with their hobby/cars, to each their own—just to get that out. Second, I’m not a purist when it comes to collecting or bashing. I take every situation/car differently. I have RC cars that I run, some rarely, and some that haven’t tasted any surface. It’s a matter of how easy or difficult it is to find parts for a particular vintage car or how expensive that parts are.

This has to do more with what I’ve seen between two groups—the shelf queens and the bashers/runners (for lack of a better term).

I like seeing videos of people run their RC cars to get a sense for what the car is like. At the same time I admire looking at pristine cars especially vintage and what the owners have done to them to keep them beautiful—and set aside as shelf queens. I get inspiration from those.

I joined a group that was started as a shelf queen only group because from what I understood, the admin and members wanted a place to showcase their collection/builds without being judge by people who hate shelf queens and attitudes of their owners. That somewhat makes me sad since the hobby should be fun and lighthearted.

A typical scenario is someone would post a clean/beautiful/rare pristine build, mostly never ran. There will always be a person who will say something like this:

 “What’s the point of being in the hobby when you don’t run the car.”

And interestingly, later, another person will agree with the criticism and say something like:

“Me too, I run my cars and I don’t get why people spend all that money to just put the cars on the shelf or stare at them.”  Or “What’s the point of being in the hobby if you don’t run the cars?”

I've even see one terrible one "This is what I hate about the hobby, those that do shelf queens"

Then a few more will jump in as if patting themselves in the back for the criticism.

The opinions or views are very strong. It fascinates me and interests me. Is it some resentment, guilt, or insecurity for running their cars (and sometimes beating them up) and then still seeing nice ones around?

But then I’ve yet to come across a collector/shelf queen person bash another hobbyist for running their rc car even to the ground, or breaking them. 

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I drive all my cars including new and restored M38's except for one which was built per box art for preservation (it has a mechanical speed controller which I don't really enjoy driving with anyway).. and one NIB displayed on the wall.

I don't drive all out nor race with a crowd so I don't worry about destroying the body work.  

Honestly after restoring so many ugly and partially destroyed M38's, there's really nothing I can't repair so I'm not scared of driving my cars.  :lol:

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1 hour ago, Mechanic AH said:

#2 The Shelf Queen and Basher/Runner debate.

I have both, and again, I feel no need to tell others what to do with their possessions. There's no need to tell others how to enjoy this hobby. There's a right way and a wrong way of doing many things in this world and, to some degree, enjoyment of hobbies (and how people choose to do so) can be an escape from that. Honestly, I would cringe to see someone purposely destroying something rare or a piece of history, like driving a vintage SRB down a flight of stairs just for the sole purpose of breaking it (which far removed from running and enjoying a model), but its still theirs to do with as they wish. 

As far as the behavior patterns you've witnessed, well, underlying human nature brought to the surface by "internet culture"? I don't know what country you are from but in the US there seems to have been a trend of folks being/feeling more emboldened. Whether this has to do with political climate, the growth and affect of internet culture or many more, far reaching factors is a huge discussion probably beyond the scope of this one. Its safe to say, the internet's relative anonymity allows folks to feel brave enough to plainly speak their mind. Once one person does that, and receives little flak, others now feel more gutsy/safe (the waters having been tested) to pile on, oft times to the point of beratement, to the person being criticized. Beyond that, you have various drivers for the motivations of individuals such as the need to be "right" all the time or rather the perverse enjoyment in telling others they're "wrong" to simply wanting to be part of a group, even if that group is just bullying someone on the internet. 

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I'm likely to have some shelf queen bodies as I wanted that body style and only have 1 kit that those multiple ones fit on. Its more on the place ill run the cars and if the car has front/rear bumpers.The tt02 was a bit of a queen until I put the rubber tires on it to give me no excuse to run it on pavement. My 2 are runners and the 3 in mid build/parts or kit waiting will have stay static more often. Can't say to what extent but I can usually get 2 with me to have a good day on any given day. I had plans to buy a battery for each but settled for 2 Traxxas and 3 tamiya connectors to share among the collection. Too many batteries to charge every 3 weeks gets problematic if I buy too many.

I put more money into the TT02 than id like to admit or initially planned on and it often stays on the shelf as it can only handle wood floors or decent road conditions. Parking lots are its home until drift tracks open up. I'm fairly certain the lunch box will be grass only and some road conditions. I got a movie themed idea for it and likely won't want to damage the body much...

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Runners v shelfers! I've never understood why people have a problem with shelfers, unless it's the RTR mentality. All of my junk was built to run, some harder than others. I've definitely done a few bodies that'll never be run. Guys that or build or buy shelfers are enjoying and appreciating a different aspect of the hobby, no more, no less. 

I'll admit that I have a hard time understanding the appeal of beating a car to death, even though that seems to be a significant part of our hobby.

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“Shelf Queen” is a concept foreign to those that never built a static model, or had to build an RC from a kit. Most modern RCers buy their car, break it, then buy another. It’s a disposable means to win races and or have a toy go 80mph.

IMHO…

Terry

 

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4 hours ago, Frog Jumper said:

“Shelf Queen” is a concept foreign to those that never built a static model, or had to build an RC from a kit. Most modern RCers buy their car, break it, then buy another. It’s a disposable means to win races and or have a toy go 80mph.

IMHO…

Terry

 

I think this is why I don't understand the concept of a "shelf queen." Static models made by Tamiya, Aoshima, etc are so much more accurate and detailed than the RC equivalent, I don't get why you'd prefer to have something that's more expensive and complicated, but with less detail.

I don't care what other people do with their cars or trucks, motors or batteries, as long as they're not shouting their opinions and declaring themselves to be the only true and correct ones.

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On the other Board I frequent, there is a lot of arguing over what microphone is best and whether digital is better than analog and my favorite “your favorite band sucks”…

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For the longest time, I didn't understand shelf queens, but for the longest time, I didn't have any vintage cars with impossible to find parts. Now, I have a couple of cars I haven't worked up the courage to run yet, and may never run. Time will tell.

In the end, you bought the thing, it's yours to do with as you please. As is everyone else's. And yes, it took me a while to realize this myself...

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20 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

For the longest time, I didn't understand shelf queens, but for the longest time, I didn't have any vintage cars with impossible to find parts. Now, I have a couple of cars I haven't worked up the courage to run yet, and may never run. Time will tell.

In the end, you bought the thing, it's yours to do with as you please. As is everyone else's. And yes, it took me a while to realize this myself...

I guess welcome to the other side.   :lol:   Honestly vintage Tamiya's only interest me these days.. 

 

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On 6/12/2021 at 2:53 AM, isomer1 said:

Personally I like brushless & nimh. I don't get the burn-down-the-house-with-lipo roulette that so many seem to enjoy.

But I think more to your point (1) a big segment don't understand the strengths of brushed, and I think generally (2) brushless + lipo is the only upgrade some know how to do, so that's what they toss out when they want to contribute. Maybe that's one way to get a silver lining on the situation: they didn't have insight to address your issue, but at least you interested them enough that they wanted to contribute.

This is nonsense I cant look over. Lipo is safe as nimh if you are somewhat avarage intelligent and dont push 1C charges all the time.

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5 hours ago, Frog Jumper said:

“Shelf Queen” is a concept foreign to those that never built a static model, or had to build an RC from a kit. Most modern RCers buy their car, break it, then buy another. It’s a disposable means to win races and or have a toy go 80mph.

IMHO…

Terry

 

I have never build a static kit and I built an rc from kit back in 99 when I got my first Dt01.

Second kit was a M05.

I am a kind of person who wants to stay budget all the time. Never go full crazy.

 

I own a M02 with a Abarth 1000TCR repro body set. Shelfer since day 1, not interested to drive the M02 neither I want to ruin it.

then a F103 converted to F104 suspension and tires… all blue bling that is out there… its a shelfer now bcause my driving buddies stopped with F1 cars.

I tend to run more modern cars like the FF03 with lots of parts out there. The M02 for example gets a ride once or twice in a year.

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Most of my RC habits are due to the fact my love for this hobby comes from the golden era, my aesthetic sense for RC cars have been born in that days and deeps its roots in nostalgia, so: brushed is cool 'cause intimidates as a group B rally car/brushless are ugly in the same aseptic way a Tesla is, long antenna tube are cool/unvisible antenna need help to grew up, handmade parts are masterpieces/3d printed parts look like cookies, brushed esc requires a brain linked to your fingers/brushless esc requires a programm box...

I quit Lipos only because I was tired to watch becoming fat.

Of course I'm seriuosly joking hope it came well, if not it depends by my bad english :D

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Ah yes, the shelf queen vs RUNNER debate is another interesting part of the personalities that follow RC.  I'll throw in the "multiple copies collector" as well to that discussion, those who collect numbers of the same model kit for their own purposes. 

 

As with the brushed vs brushless or NiMH vs LiPo debates, to each their own.  I am not nearly as skilled as many of the other members here (I'm talk about folks like you @Mechanic AH B)) but when I make something that I'm proud of,  sometimes I don't want to ruin it.  I run a few models regularly, but others are kept pristine and admired on the shelf for the engineering thought that went into the design and the effort I put into the assembly and finish.

I've sought after certain models as a child and could finally purchase pretty much most of what I ever wanted.  That said, I respect those who have collections with multiple models and stacks of NIB kits to decorate their hobby rooms.  I truly get it..  and think each person in this hobby should feel free to enjoy it however they like so long as they don't harm others in doing so.

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My R/C frustrations are solely down to me not having the time to enjoy the hobby and to learn the skills that take time and patience. 
 

All down to me in all fairness, I’m the one that killed off any free time . 

However in response to the OP point, I’m happy with brushed motors and NiMH batteries, but as these items wear out and my spares diminish I will very slowly make that transition over and try newer tech and then if I like it then I’ll  go with it or a combination of the two. 

For me reliability and ease of use are the absolute priorities, enough speed to have a sprint or a bit a blast every now and then is more than good enough, breaking my RC and then going through the fug of hunting for spares and repair time on the bench is at the top my not wanted priorities. 

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12 hours ago, Saito2 said:

As far as the behavior patterns you've witnessed, well, underlying human nature brought to the surface by "internet culture"? I don't know what country you are from but in the US there seems to have been a trend of folks being/feeling more emboldened. Whether this has to do with political climate, the growth and affect of internet culture or many more, far reaching factors is a huge discussion probably beyond the scope of this one. Its safe to say, the internet's relative anonymity allows folks to feel brave enough to plainly speak their mind. Once one person does that, and receives little flak, others now feel more gutsy/safe (the waters having been tested) to pile on, oft times to the point of beratement, to the person being criticized. Beyond that, you have various drivers for the motivations of individuals such as the need to be "right" all the time or rather the perverse enjoyment in telling others they're "wrong" to simply wanting to be part of a group, even if that group is just bullying someone on the internet. 

I have to agree with this. Society today seems to encourage people to express their opinions in an "I'm right and you must listen to me" format. Arguably it stems from racial, sexual and many other forms of discrimination that absolutely should be entitled to a fair hearing of their views. However, as with life in general, it has been pushed to an excess where if you express an opinion that someone disagrees with, you are the one that's wrong. The internet in particular has allowed a huge community of people who feel it is their right to belittle and bully people without any form of consequence.  They can say whatever they like, to whoever they like and get away with it. Hence we have trolls, online bullies, fake news, people posting videos of their ex's etc. All of which is completely unacceptable.

And so we come to the brushed/brushless debate - it shouldn't be a debate! No one has the right to say "you are wrong if you run a brushed motor or run a NiMH battery." Or "You are missing the point of RC if you build shelf queens." Every single human being ever alive on this planet has free will. We have laws and regulations to attempt to maintain a fair and peaceful society, but ultimately, if I choose to spend £600 restoring an old RC car and put it on a shelf so I can look at it - that's my right to do that, and no one can say otherwise. We all have our own likes and dislikes - that's ok - that's what makes us human and that's what makes us all different and interesting - otherwise we'd all be drones. If we all supported Manchester United, football would be an incredibly (more?) boring sport. :) If everyone only liked cabernet sauvignon then where would be the excitement in cracking open a bottle of champers at a special event? There is soooo much variety in life - it's there to be enjoyed - not ridiculed!

Besides which - we are all wrong - every single one of us. As every married man will tell you, it's our wives that are right, and we should always listen to them :) 

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And I have another one…

in the sale section or ebay whenever I see UK only… 

I cant really understand why this is a thing, unless we look back in history.

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As a little aside comment to this: I've been going to the gym for about 8 years now, mainly focussing on weight training. Like most subjects, there are thousands of videos and websites all saying "this is the way you should do a deadlift" or "If you are doing a squat this way you are doing it wrong!" and I've spent years sifting through all this to determine what works for me. 

There's a bit of an unwritten rule in the gym - you never interfere in someone's workout unless they are a: trapped under something and going a funny colour, or b: you are 100% confident they are about to break something in their body. In 8 years, I've stepped in twice, once because a guy got stuck with a barbell on his neck doing bench presses and once because a guy was about to do an alternate grip deadlift that was too heavy for him and would have snapped his bicep off (I know because I did exactly the same a year or so earlier - not nice - check youtube if you want to see what happens.)

Every day that I go in I will see - generally - a group of 3 or more lads trying to push weights on machines in wrong ways - either doing half reps or setting up the seat too low so they start out with their arm half extended blah blah blah, or the other common one is a guy "coaching" his girlfriend in how to weight train whilst also - obviously - trying to show off. If I was to stop what I was doing and say "hey, sorry for interrupting, but you're doing that all wrong....." I'd a: never get to train myself because I'd be too busy and b: get barred from the gym for being a nuisance! :) However, if someone ever comes up to me and asks "hey, I notice you do that different to me, why is that?" then I'd be happy to explain and help them if they want. But I'd never tell them what they were doing was wrong. I might say "one thing I found was that if you move your feet in a bit etc etc then I found this happens which made it work better for me...." but just give them the suggestion and leave it to them! And I think this is a great example of how forums and well, life in general should work. It's ok to make a suggestion if someone asks, or by all means step in if someone is in danger of hurting themselves or others by a lack of knowledge, but otherwise, just let them get on with doing what they want. If they are happy doing that, that's great! You may well know in full confidence that they will never achieve what they want doing what they are doing, but that doesn't give you the right to tell them they are wrong and ridicule them - just keep it to yourself and be proud that you took the time and effort to work it out for yourself. If they ask though, please share that knowledge in a friendly way.

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18 hours ago, Mechanic AH said:

I’ve yet to come across a collector/shelf queen person bash another hobbyist for running their rc car even to the ground, or breaking them. 

I get this quite often, with the , How dare you put a brushless motor and a lipo into a Tamiya! (Like they'll just spontaneously combust..), you can't be into RC cars etc etc..🤦‍♂️ (even though, constantly buying spares helps keep model shops going)

There was a lot of anger from the shelfer crowd when the re- releases where first announced , complaining their cars would go down in value (just have them for making money?) where the runner crowd, where extatic to be able to not have to spend time, and a fortune sourcing/buying parts.

You've maybe have gathered, I'm firmly in the runner crowd. Otherwise, It's like having a beautiful wife, and being celibate,  but, I quite like the shelfer crowd too, they keep them nice and , fresh, for me to buy, when I need a new runner..😛

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1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

Otherwise, It's like having a beautiful wife, and being celibate,  

Best "quote of the day" award right here ;)

 

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I think what some people don't get is that there's more than one way to enjoy model cars - and just because one person enjoys them by running them, they can't understand how someone else can possibly get enjoyment out of them by not running them. 

16 hours ago, lsear2905 said:

I think this is why I don't understand the concept of a "shelf queen." Static models made by Tamiya, Aoshima, etc are so much more accurate and detailed than the RC equivalent, I don't get why you'd prefer to have something that's more expensive and complicated, but with less detail.

A few things to say about this: firstly, this is no different than saying "tamiya makes brushless motors that are so much faster, more efficient, more reliable than brushed motors - I don't get why you'd prefer to use brushed motors that require more maintenance, are slower, and yet waste more power as heat."  - 'Better' is a subjective term; for some people, less detailed is better. For some, less complicated is better. For some, familiar is better. 

Secondly, building a typical tamiya rc car to a standard that looks good is a lot easier than doing the same with one of their 1/24th plastic models; getting a perfect paint job on a tamiya rc is as easy as caking the paint onto the inside of the shell and then peeling back the protective film, and the details are all stickers - getting the same finish on a plastic model requires much more skill and patience, and I imagine this puts a lot of people off. 

Finally, 1/10th rc models are a lot bigger than 1/24th ones, and while the smaller ones are indeed more detailed out of the box, at the distance they are normally viewed at (up on a shelf at the edge of a room) you are hard pressed to see those details, and Tamiya touring car rc models are pretty darn good in terms of detail, even before adding extra details as one can (check out anything by Truck Norris), meaning that they can look just as good as plastic models but without the need to get up close. 

Something that sets them aside from their surely static cousins is that they sit atop an actual working chassis, with real suspension and drivetrain that, if you wanted, you could power up and drive around. The mere knowledge of this fact adds a little something extra I think. It's also something else one can display. 

Personally I collect both plastic models and rc models to go on display, plus I have others that I run (race, though not often these days).

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