Hobbywing 1060 Limiting speed of Superstock RZ

[Wooster 30]

Hi all. I’ve put a Hobbywing 1060 ESC in my newly built Hotshot Re Re and am running a Superstock RZ motor with a 13T steel pinion on a Nimh battery. On my first run - which included a bit of rough terrain and long grass - I’d either lose half or total power. Switching the car off and on again would fix it for a bit but it wasn’t ideal. Back at home I double checked that the jumper was set to Nimh and removed the one controlling Running Mode as I only want Forward/ Reverse anyway. 2nd and 3rd runs - I ran it on compact dirt, and took the shell and even the control hatch off to get some air to the ESC and it was much better. However, if I switch the car off and on again, the initial speed burst is brilliant but then, if I slow down, from then on the speed has been noticeably limited. I can’t find anything binding in the Hotshot and I even replaced the bushings in the RZ for bearings before fitting it. Is it just that the 4 wheel drive is too much of a power drain for this setup on Nimh?  My Blitzer - running a Superstock TZ and an Etronix ESC on Nimh - runs great....

[ThunderDragonCy 7886]

When it cuts out, stop and check the heat of the motor, ESC and the motor/ESC wire plugs. If any one of these items is super hot, then the ESC is going into thermal shutdown. Those old 4wd Tamiyas are pretty high drag drivetrains. I can't use a TBLE02S with a 13.5 brushless in my Thunder Dragon without it thermalling every few minutes, but I can use the exact same setup in a vintage 2WD with no issues at all. Take the motor out and make the whole drivetrain is running as free as it can do. 

[Wooster 30]

Thanks for the reply @ThunderDragonCy The motor was hot after the the drives so it sounds like it was the ESC going in to thermal shutdown. I took out the motor earlier tonight and everything seems to be running freely. I’ve switched the Superstock RZ for a TZ. Not actually sure what the R and the T stand for but I always think of the R as standing for Rapid or high RPM whereas the T is more Torquey. Maybe the extra grunt at lower revs will get that drivetrain moving without overheating too much?  Works fine holding the car in the air. Will give it a test drive tomorrow to see if the issue is fixed.

[jonboy1 2943]

this actually sounds very similar to my issue:

as you - using a hotter motor with a 1060 and an older 4wd buggy. I've ruled out the motor now so looking to be ESC overheating too.

[Wooster 30]

Yes - it sounds like we are both struggling with the Hobbywing 1060 @jonboy1 The Hotshot performed better with the Superstock TZ rather than the RZ but the ESC was still limiting its maximum speed. If I turned the car off and on, it would have way more speed for 10/15 seconds and then drop down to ‘safe mode’. I suspect the 1060 is just doing it’s job - as it and the motor got hot - but I can’t tell if it is creating the problem it’s solving (if you see what I mean?!) ESCs have always been a bit of a lottery for me. An Mtroniks Autosport (20 turn) has been great in my Blitzer Beetle but another - same make and model - in my Lunchbox had a mind of its own and would switch between forward on the throttle meaning forward to all of a sudden meaning reverse! I love the tinkering involved in this hobby but sometimes you just want stuff to work!

[Cynan 520]

I’ve just popped a Super Stock TZ in my HS2 with 1060 and a 13T steel pinion. I’m using standard motor bullets, a NiMh battery and Tamiya connector. I’ll give it a good run and see what happens…

[Wooster 30]

Brilliant - thanks @Cynan! I’ll be very interested to hear how you get on. I was wondering if the hot weather we’re enjoying in the U.K might be contributing to the thermal shutdowns?...

[Cynan 520]

Had a quick run around the drive at lunch for no more than 5 minutes. Ran the car on full for about 10 seconds after that held in my hand and the motor feels very hot. ESC heat sink is also hot but not as hot as the motor. Wires and connectors are ok. I’m inclined to think that the ESC then is going into thermal shutdown and this motor is perhaps to hot for the car. I will go run it properly later though somewhere with a bigger space and grassed area but it’s not looking good - at least not in my car 

[Wooster 30]

Thanks @Cynan I was wondering if making the leap to lipo would provide the power needed - or just make things worse? Also - I sort of prefer to keep things old school,  rather than messing about with soldering Deans connectors on and potentially burning my house down...

[jonboy1 2943]

thanks too @Cynan  

I'm not sure switching to a lipo is going to help @Wooster - that's what I'm running!!  

 

[Cynan 520]

The answer is probably switch back to something more suitable for the car like the modern Sports Turned.

or dare I say it, go brushless. They should run cooler.

Ive just remembered that I have a temperature gun somewhere. I’ll dig that out later too and get some actual numbers.

[ThunderDragonCy 7886]

Am I correct in saying you set the pinion gear mesh manually on the hotshot? If you do, try backing the pinion away from the spur slightly until there is a tiny bit of backlash. To tight gear mesh can cause drag and motor heat 

[Wooster 30]

Ah - good idea @ThunderDragonCy You are correct - you have to insert up to 4 metal set plates depending on how many teeth your pinion has. 13T = all 4 plates. I might try removing a plate - unless someone says 'Don't do it, you'll mash up your gears!'...

[Wooster 30]

1 minute ago, Wooster said:

Ah - good idea @ThunderDragonCy You are correct - you have to insert up to 4 metal set plates depending on how many teeth your pinion has. 13T = all 4 plates. I might try removing a plate - unless someone says 'Don't do it, you'll mash up your gears!'...

Or rather - having looked at the instructions! - you always use all 4 plates - just arrange them differently depending on how far you want the pinion to be held away from the drive gear. I'll have a tinker...

[Cynan 520]

I think using the four plates there is play already. The Super Stock has 4 mounting holes on the back, 2 sets very close to each other (why?) and when I fitted mine I used one screw and then turned the motor until the gears were engaged but I had to back the motor & pinion away to in order to get the second screw in.

It’s a shame you can’t see into the gear box to check though without taking the thing apart!

[Wooster 30]

Just seen this Tamiya Legends vid pop up on my feed - seems like there is a known fix for Hobbywing 1060s going in to limp mode. You just need a soldering iron (which i don't have...) and some capacitors.  Might just swap in a different esc (I just need to get the mechanism box off the Hotshot - which is proving to be harder than it should be, due to the front 2 screws refusing be removed from the chassis - but thats a different problem!...) 

 

[rwordenjr 1890]

4 hours ago, Wooster said:

Just seen this Tamiya Legends vid pop up on my feed - seems like there is a known fix for Hobbywing 1060s going in to limp mode. You just need a soldering iron (which i don't have...) and some capacitors.  Might just swap in a different esc (I just need to get the mechanism box off the Hotshot - which is proving to be harder than it should be, due to the front 2 screws refusing be removed from the chassis - but thats a different problem!...) 

 

Yea those screws strip the top the chassis holes. Really shouldn’t be using machine screw type threads. Self tappers are better for going into plastic but Tamiya didn’t make that way 😱

[ThunderDragonCy 7886]

If you are getting heat then you should still investigate drag and gears. 

[Cynan 520]

So last night the motor got to around 50C. I believe the upper limit that you’d want is around 70C? Anyhow the motor seemed ok. Looks like it is the ESC from that video.

I don't have much room for a bigger ESC with fan etc so if there is no alternative to the 1060, with allows brushless then it looks like the fix above is what Ill do.

Bit annoyed it does this to be honest.

[jonboy1 2943]

so following on from @ThunderDragonCy 's thought and thinking more about the Tamiya Legends fix - I'm guessing (sorry, my comprehension of electronic principles has never been good) that fitting extra capacitors to the ESC isn't going to reduce the heat of the 1060 itself, just allow it to work for longer? I get that it could be caused by some manufacturing variable which is why it doesn't seem to effect all of them, but if this is the case, it does worry me a bit that something hot is sat right over a lipo and next to a hot motor. 

Is there a way of fitting a fan to the 1060 and getting the same effect as adding the capacitors - or even as well as?

Or am I worrying about nothing?

[Cynan 520]

Unless I misunderstood, the problem with the 1060 and fix for it is not heat related.

The video is saying that the ESC goes into limp mode because it believes the battery is about to run out… so I guess it’s slowing the car down to warn you and so you don’t run it into a wall of the receiver stops responding due to lack of power.

The capacitors will charge up and hold the current. When you go full throttle and the power dips, the charged current in the capacitors will top it up so the ESC does not see a dip on supplied current and does not go into limp mode. The capacitors then charge up again when able. So they are smoothly the supply of current.

[Silver-Can 402]

If it's a heat problem, as opposed to a current supply problem (and assuming the esc isn't faulty), then you'd either need a slower motor so that the esc doesn't have to work as hard, a different esc (preferably with a fan), try adding a fan to your existing esc (do you have any spare channels or other powered outputs on your reciever?) or making some holes in the chassis and/or little metal access plate/hatch to allow for air flow.

I have a hotshot and have a 160amp esc with fan inside the chassis. Although I run brushless, I have the throttle endpoint set to about 50% so that it is lively without being bonkers. I still had to drill little holes in the metal cover and a couple in the side of the chassis just in front of, and above the fan to allow for air flow. I also used to run a TZ super stock on an etronics (I think) esc without issue - it was the motor that gave up the ghost, getting too hot.

Edit: all that said, I believe the 1060 is rated down to 12 turns. I know that not all motors are created equal, but I wouldn't have thought a 23 turn motor would tax it to the extent that it would cause it to thermal, even inside the enclosed HS chassis tub.

[Wooster 30]

Right - as suggested by @ThunderDragonCy- I’ve backed the pinion away from the spur by moving one of the BD6 set plates above the the BA5 screws. This configuration (1 up 3 down) isn’t shown in the instructions. It would be if there was a 14T pinion gear I suppose... Hopefully this will loosen the gear mesh up a bit and all my problems will be solved!... I won’t be able to run the car for a day or two but will report back after I do. You’re right @Silver-Can - the 1060 shouldn’t really have any trouble running a Superstock Motor...

[Wooster 30]

19 hours ago, rwordenjr said:

Yea those screws strip the top the chassis holes. Really shouldn’t be using machine screw type threads. Self tappers are better for going into plastic but Tamiya didn’t make that way 😱

Any tips for removing said machine screws? The two in question just spin in their stripped holes now! I suppose I could try pulling them out with force (if possible) but fear that will result in needing a new chassis and mechanism box...

[Silver-Can 402]

31 minutes ago, Wooster said:

Right - as suggested by @ThunderDragonCy- I’ve backed the pinion away from the spur by moving one of the BD6 set plates above the the BA5 screws. This configuration (1 up 3 down) isn’t shown in the instructions. It would be if there was a 14T pinion gear I suppose... Hopefully this will loosen the gear mesh up a bit and all my problems will be solved!... I won’t be able to run the car for a day or two but will report back after I do. You’re right @Silver-Can - the 1060 shouldn’t really have any trouble running a Superstock Motor...

Daft question, but I note from your OP that it is a steel aftermarket pinion - are sure it's the correct pitch? My HS was my first car when I got back into the hobby about 10 years ago. I ordered a number of alternative pinions only to discover they were the wrong pitch. They were 48dp instead of the 0.8mod or 32dp required. Just a thought.