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Saito2

Does Tamiya interact with their customer base?

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I listened to a podcast today at work where several engineers from Redcat Racing were interviewed. I honestly knew little about them. I suppose I  didn't give them much of a look after researching the questionable quality their Ground Pounder monster truck. Well, from the looks of it, the company seems to have evolved and improved. I was surprised how their engineers at least seemed interested in what their customer base wanted. While I haven't done hard research, going by what was said in the interview, they really appear to interact with people.

Without going into the validity of all that with Redcat (though I have no immediate reason to doubt them and their products seem genuinely better), I wondered what, if any, interaction Tamiya had with their customers. From what little I know, they seem quite mysterious to people outside of Japan, divulging little to nothing about future products nor interacting with customers about their wants and needs. As has been mentioned before, from the outside, they appear to "march to the beat of their own drummer" in a manner of speaking. Is company interaction in Japan different or is this simply a cultural thing?

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they must have some contact or feedback mechanism surely? It would be interesting to know how much notice they take of Tamiya Club, Tamiya Base etc.

Also there is an article at Tamiya blog where they talk about the effects of COVID. From that, they at least have a Twitter account! and two quote that sums up the effects of COVID

"As Chairman Shunsaku Tamiya said, “Production is not in time and there are not enough products worldwide” "

"The number of followers of the “Tamiya RC Models (@TAMIYAGP_STAFF)” (opened in June 2010) account, which disseminates RC car-related information on Twitter, has doubled from about 6,000 to 12,600 in the past year, and YouTube subscribers. The number has also increased significantly from about 70,000 to 130,000."

 

surely they are getting some feedback from either YouTube or Twitter at least.

the full article

https://tamiyablog.com/2021/06/radio-controlled-model-popularity-revived-by-covid-19-boom-due-to-demand-for-nesting-background-information-from-tamiya/

so, big jump in sales, making product harder to get, would probably make them think they are on the right track though without having to engage much with customers?

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I do believe that they at least listen to the customer base to an extent. I think it might have some aspect of the Japanese business mentality at the same time. I don't mean to blame or discriminate against any Japanese business or culture in any way. They are very result oriented ie profit and production while taking into account the customer base feedback. They seem very deliberate and strategic as to which financial risks they will undertake. If i perceive any of this wrong then I welcome you to correct me.  I don't use smart phones nor have/follow the latest social media sites so i cant say what is said on there.

This is the way I ended up interpreting this business model so I might have missed other things when I came to this idea.

I've been playing Pokemon games for a long time and I've seem how Game Freak (GF) operates and gotten an idea how they go about their games. GF has a certain way to make games and experiment with different ideas each generation of the games. Some generations have great ideas and bad ideas the players agree with and then the great ideas are dropped in the next series of games much to the players' displeasure. The good features do reappear later on when the consensus and support seem to be enough to bring it back, sometimes it takes longer. It's very much "here is what you like and something else new that you may or may not like." It's usually a case of deal with it or stay out of it. The games let them try some newer ideas under the pretense of new game=new features. 

The RC market isn't as flexible to always try new things. Tamiya has it's solid line up that is always in demand and tries new models or body shells with the new products. Doing re releases is a way to generate solid results on known products for a known or lower financial risk. I think they are waiting for the right time when the support is there to re release the older kits for a more predictable business model/practices. They might seem like they don't pay attention to the customer base but might likely be waiting for best chance to act upon it.

I WILL fault them for one thing: short production runs to the point you can't find parts/kits in the short to mid term on certain kits. How can they re release a kit and then have that production run to be 1-3 years at the most...

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4 hours ago, nel33 said:

I WILL fault them for one thing: short production runs to the point you can't find parts/kits in the short to mid term on certain kits.

This is one thing I find irksome of late. It is a "safe" way for Tamiya to continue forward with the re-release program. If they never produce enough product to meet expected demand, it keeps said product in demand and not languishing on store shelves. Of course, while being a safer bet for them, its maddening to us. It has the added bonus of driving us into a frenzy, training us in a sense, to buy immediately, or risk losing out. 

While I don't necessarily support badwagon-jumping, some interest in the the market would be nice for both company and customer. Aside from the early days, Tamiya doesn't really update a product once its out there (competition oriented things like the DB01 excepted) i.e. the original Clod never got the reinforcing plates found on the Bullhead even though both were in production concurrently. There had been calls for a CC02 for many years and Tamiya seemed deaf to it (probably because we still bought up the CC01 in droves). Now that they did introduce the CC02 (which is a nice kit) they are very late to the party. On the other hand, if scale/trail isn't a "thing" in Japan, I can understand their slow reaction too, however...

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When it comes to price and contents in the box its a no. Kit development I think they do.Some nice new 1/14th truck stuff just been released. When it come to "cars/buggies" its a NO. Making to much from rere`s and lower end stuff. you could put this down to Tamiya lack of competitive racing.Tamiya need to be careful now though because lots of other brands now knock their "cheaper entry" stuff out the water and mmost young kids don't like kits and that is one of tamiyas top points.

Tamiya will only listen to the Japanese and US market anyway,anywhere else does not matter.

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1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

This is one thing I find irksome of late. It is a "safe" way for Tamiya to continue forward with the re-release program. If they never produce enough product to meet expected demand, it keeps said product in demand and not languishing on store shelves. Of course, while being a safer bet for them, its maddening to us. It has the added bonus of driving us into a frenzy, training us in a sense, to buy immediately, or risk losing out. 

This is exactly how 'fast fashion' operates. Release stuff and only make it available for a very short time before moving on to the next thing. Creates a mentality of having to rush out and buy something for fear of 'missing out'.

I'm immune, the last thing I bought was a Terra Scorcher last February and I still haven't found the enthusiasm to start building it. I'm not buying any more kits until I can get some spare axle input drive shafts for my TXT-1 (grrr)

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14 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I wondered what, if any, interaction Tamiya had with their customers.

For large established companies it's common for them to commission studies in to consumer behaviours through third party organisations. So they, to a certain extent, try to understand their end-users' needs but do this in a hands off arms length way. It's worth distinguishing between their 'customers' and 'end-users' because their customers are actually dealers who's needs differ significantly from end-users' needs.

These companies also tend to be a bit more command and control; executive decides the strategy and execution, then delivery does just that. Delivery does not get involved with strategy and consumer insight can be viewed as a distraction. 

Smaller, more agile companies will do direct to consumer research, probably because they have to - research if bought as a service is expensive and in some contexts of questionable value - and also because it better aligns teams comprised of smart opinionated people and allows them to focus on what works. Strategy and execution are often encapsulated in the delivery teams, so it's essential they interact with customers and end-users. 

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Some 15 years ago Tamiya had an email address on their website. I used this a few times and always got a reply. Mostly a generic answer but once a very long detailed answer. My question at that time was if the PS paint from rattle cans was available in pots for use in airbrushes. To my surprise I got an answer how to drill a hole in a rattle can to get to the paint. It was a rather complicated and risky task. As you can imagine I never tried. Since long the email address is no longer there so no more direct contact.

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6 hours ago, Saito2 said:

This is one thing I find irksome of late. It is a "safe" way for Tamiya to continue forward with the re-release program. If they never produce enough product to meet expected demand, it keeps said product in demand and not languishing on store shelves. Of course, while being a safer bet for them, its maddening to us. It has the added bonus of driving us into a frenzy, training us in a sense, to buy immediately, or risk losing out. 

While I don't necessarily support badwagon-jumping, some interest in the the market would be nice for both company and customer. Aside from the early days, Tamiya doesn't really update a product once its out there (competition oriented things like the DB01 excepted) i.e. the original Clod never got the reinforcing plates found on the Bullhead even though both were in production concurrently. There had been calls for a CC02 for many years and Tamiya seemed deaf to it (probably because we still bought up the CC01 in droves). Now that they did introduce the CC02 (which is a nice kit) they are very late to the party. On the other hand, if scale/trail isn't a "thing" in Japan, I can understand their slow reaction too, however...

I don't think it's the safest way but it does satisfy the demand to an extent in the short term and leaves those late empty handed. It was rather annoying as I wanted a Manta but was 2 years late to the hobby for the kit. Now I got 95% of the partspurchased individually or from a member here to get one kit built. It would be more durable than the re re kit but if there was stock at decent price then I'd have bought the 2018 kit. That maddened frenzy is responsible for my TD purchase so yeah it's annoying to risk missing the train of the kit... 

Leaving weak parts in the kit can be an oversight or part of the strategy to purchase the other parts. The kits are fairly durable so you need to have some parts that break. Who knows what would happen if They kept up with adding upgraded parts on all re re kit and had bigger production runs. Not a fan of the current production run model. If the production runs were slightly longer this FOMO wouldnt be so intense.

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Another good thread @Saito2 👍

If you start from the premise that Tamiya is shelling peas these days - not innovating in swells like they used to e.g. from 76 to 89 and 98 to 08 - the other pieces slot into place.

Tamiya’s market share is broadly shrinking by not very much each year - but (importantly) market contraction is more than offset by an ageing (and ridiculously loyal) customer base - especially in Japan and the US. 

Surplus cash also generally follows with age - with a small gap if you have kids, at least until your wife can be convinced your doing it for a 3 year old to play with 😇

So, in terms of profit, Tamiya don’t need customer feedback - they just knock out lean production runs of whatever generates middle aged FOMO with the highest price point and leanest initial cost base … with inevitable breakages, shortages and weak performance driving demand for high margin hop ups that used to be in the original design. 

I don’t like it but if you stand back objectively, it’s a v shrewd business model ?

And, medium term, it should stand the test of time - at least until the current ageing band all get bored or croak !

I’ve said it before but the only way to drive Tamiya back to listening to us (and therefore innovation) is to stop buying the lazy new releases ?

We can’t continue doing the same thing and expect a diff result - and I’ve not bought any new kit in the last 3 years before anyone asks. 

Even held firm when the TFE re re popped up - and it was the right decision having seen it in the flesh 👍

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I think it's easy to say Tamiya doesn't because RC trends vary by region and country.  It all depends on how Tamiya sees it; total worldwide sales by kit, interaction with local (Japan) RC groups, social media, relationships with licensing companies, lurking on forums, customer requests, etc.  

Some insight to what takes place in the Shizuoka "War Room" would certainly be interesting from our perspective.

 

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How? Sporadically.

Snark aside, I suspect that Tamiya interacts with its customer base via its distributor network.

Distributors worldwide are ordering Buggy X as fast as the factory can make it? Keep making it and/or raise wholesale prices.

We made a run of Buggy Y and after some initial interest, the product is sitting in the warehouse? Stop making it, lower prices and maybe let distributors know that we can maybe make a few extra Buggy X kits available for those who buy a few Buggy Y.

That's actually part of the function of a distributor network.

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Would be interesting to hear from Japanese customers on this topic. My sense is that Tamiya are very engaged with customer in Japan on some topics (look at the huge Mini 4wd events, even a phone app/game) but that they don’t seem to do much to reach international customers. English website has been a joke since forever, and local distributors are entirely b-to-b.

Smaller more recent players need to innovate on these fronts, but Tamiya apparently does not, for the many good reasons outlined above.

A shame though. Feels like growth should be possible. We all know that people seeing the products out in the wild leads to big smiles and lots of curiosity. But there is no lightning rod to focus that in a 21st century commercial context (outside Japan)

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I imagine only tamiya japan mostly interacts with customer feedback at shows and focus groups. rest like tamiya usa just sells the stuff and offers support.

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Tamiya is not as connected with the customer base here in Japan as some might imagine.  Tamiya seems to be a typical Japanese company where final decisions are made by the "old guard".  I'm not sure how much influence the Tamiya employees (who are also enthusiasts) have in making suggestions. 

I've met many Tamiya personalities who are featured on https://tamiyablog.com/ at hobby shows here.  I've inquired about new model releases and even shared some suggestions such as a Falcon re-re.. and was only met with a "yeah.. if only..." kind of reply.  The sympathetic nature of this kind of reply leads me to believe that such decisions are beyond the reach of even those who are within Tamiya's own corporation.

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1 hour ago, Killajb said:

The sympathetic nature of this kind of reply leads me to believe that such decisions are beyond the reach of even those who are within Tamiya's own corporation

Honestly, if it weren't for one maverick designer, Fumito Taki, it questionable what Tamiya's RC landscape would look like today. His passion and persistence (combined with perfect timing, as the RC industry was set to explode back then) is really responsible for the golden age of Tamiya RC. Even then, if Mr. Tamiya himself hadn't seen the shrewd business opportunity of combining their 1/12th plastic kits with electric RC (which Taki evidently was constantly engaged with), it probably wouldn't have gotten off the ground. 

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16 hours ago, SuperChamp82 said:

Another good thread @Saito2 👍

If you start from the premise that Tamiya is shelling peas these days - not innovating in swells like they used to e.g. from 76 to 89 and 98 to 08 - the other pieces slot into place.

Tamiya’s market share is broadly shrinking by not very much each year - but (importantly) market contraction is more than offset by an ageing (and ridiculously loyal) customer base - especially in Japan and the US. 

Surplus cash also generally follows with age - with a small gap if you have kids, at least until your wife can be convinced your doing it for a 3 year old to play with 😇

So, in terms of profit, Tamiya don’t need customer feedback - they just knock out lean production runs of whatever generates middle aged FOMO with the highest price point and leanest initial cost base … with inevitable breakages, shortages and weak performance driving demand for high margin hop ups that used to be in the original design. 

I don’t like it but if you stand back objectively, it’s a v shrewd business model ?

And, medium term, it should stand the test of time - at least until the current ageing band all get bored or croak !

I’ve said it before but the only way to drive Tamiya back to listening to us (and therefore innovation) is to stop buying the lazy new releases ?

We can’t continue doing the same thing and expect a diff result - and I’ve not bought any new kit in the last 3 years before anyone asks. 

Even held firm when the TFE re re popped up - and it was the right decision having seen it in the flesh 👍

Interesting looking at demographics. I absolutely agree that Tamiya fans are getting older. However, I believe we are creating a new generation of fans. My son has an F103 and TT02 and some rere offroaders. I run TA07 and TRF102. We race HB and Ae offroad, but he believes Tamiya is the best. I agree. I keep spending money on my TA07 rather than buy an xray.

So while i think the demographics will change, i'm  not sure they will decline.

I see all the time that we run down the coming generations. They are amazing humans, let them do their thing. It will be different to what we do, but amazing nonetheless

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23 hours ago, No Slack said:

To my surprise I got an answer how to drill a hole in a rattle can to get to the paint. It was a rather complicated and risky task. As you can imagine I never tried. Since long the email address is no longer there so no more direct contact.

These two events might be related

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On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2021 at 11:29 AM, MadInventor said:

This is exactly how 'fast fashion' operates. Release stuff and only make it available for a very short time before moving on to the next thing. Creates a mentality of having to rush out and buy something for fear of 'missing out'.

I'm immune, the last thing I bought was a Terra Scorcher last February and I still haven't found the enthusiasm to start building it. I'm not buying any more kits until I can get some spare axle input drive shafts for my TXT-1 (grrr)

Sorry this might offend, Perhaps the lack of interest in building the TS is because its a "dated" "re" "rere" kit. Now if Tamiya was to make a new platform that might tweek your interest : )   BUT that wont happen all the time Tamiya keep selli.......................

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On 6/17/2021 at 3:59 AM, Jonathon Gillham said:

LInteresting looking at demographics. I absolutely agree that Tamiya fans are getting older. However, I believe we are creating a new generation of fans. My son has an F103 and TT02 and some rere offroaders. I run TA07 and TRF102. We race HB and Ae offroad, but he believes Tamiya is the best. I agree. I keep spending money on my TA07 rather than buy an xray.

So while i think the demographics will change, i'm  not sure they will decline.

I see all the time that we run down the coming generations. They are amazing humans, let them do their thing. It will be different to what we do, but amazing nonetheless

Cherish your kids.   I am a dad with hobby cars, large garage with cabinets of tools, RC room, music studio, etc etc and yet my kids take no interest in any of my hobbies.    

I always tell my kids I wish my dad had cool things.. their grand pa only played golf and his "tools" were a pair of junk pliers, bunch of redundant junk screw drivers with stripped tips, and a hammer.  :lol:   Where I would pull out my Facom/Beta/SnapOn socket ratchet my dad would pull out his rusted pair of pliers from and old cardboard shoe box.

Doesn't matter, kids these days in general are not interested in cars or RC.  

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6 hours ago, Gazzalene said:

Sorry this might offend, Perhaps the lack of interest in building the TS is because its a "dated" "re" "rere" kit. Now if Tamiya was to make a new platform that might tweek your interest : )   BUT that wont happen all the time Tamiya keep selli.......................

No offence taken, It's just I already have a thundershot with TS spec suspension and a brushless motor.  I like the old school stuff. Also, if I build it I've got nowhere to keep it (My War Rig takes up the space of 5 clod busters on its own), so I  would have to sell some other stuff to make room. But to be honest I haven't even driven one of my RCs on months. Just a general lack of enthusiasm combined with a lot of other things on in my non RC world.

It does seems though that Tamiya seem incapable of incorporating improvements into model lines to evolve them. A good example would be the Clod Buster. The Super Clod just keeps on selling, but could be easily improved with the addition of the longer TXT-1 stub axles , drive hubs, and wheels. They are parts that are already in the parts bin, they wouldn't even have to design any new components, and they know the bits are better the standard Clod offering or they would not have put them on the TXT in the first place. It would be so easy to discontinue the super clod and release a new model with these minor improvements (The Super Duper Clod Buster)! But no, just keep churning out the same old thing..

I was looking at the Traxxas TRX-4 truck a few months ago. Its got a 2 speed box, decent 4 link suspension, portal axles, selectable diff locks, and for what you get in terms of features, it's not that expensive. Tamiya haven't got anything that comes even close to it.  If was going to buy another RC now the likelihood would be that it would be one of those or a Kyosho re-release.  But I'm getting to the point with RCs where I've pretty much tried all forms of stuff that Tamiya make, and I'm just not seeing anything new appearing that's taking my interest, and it's been like that for a few years now. I've also burned several years of my life scratch building some fairly ambitious RCs, and I just don't want on major new builds now. It's pointless spending 3 years building a model, and then only running 3 or 4 times in the next 3 years. Likewise I don't see the point of owning lots of RCs that are stashed in cupboards that you can't even look at, if they never get dragged out to be used. 

 

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1 hour ago, MadInventor said:

I was looking at the Traxxas TRX-4 truck a few months ago. Its got a 2 speed box, decent 4 link suspension, portal axles, selectable diff locks, and for what you get in terms of features, it's not that expensive. Tamiya haven't got anything that comes even close to it.  If was going to buy another RC now the likelihood would be that it would be one of those or a Kyosho re-release.  But I'm getting to the point with RCs where I've pretty much tried all forms of stuff that Tamiya make, and I'm just not seeing anything new appearing that's taking my interest, and it's been like that for a few years now.

Precisely how I feel. It sometimes seems Tamiya hasn't done anything really far-out and different since the CR01. As cool and different as the G601 is on the surface, its very much GF01 based under the skin. Been there done that. I was set to get the CC02 but waiting for a body I liked better than the Benz took soooo long that I began looking at the TRX-4 kit myself. If I manage to sell my TXT-2 Agrios to make room, a TRX-4 will likely fill its spot. Even the TF Evo hype didn't reel me in. After many months, my Thunder Dragon did arrive (I had forgotten about it, it had been on pre-order for so long) and now its just sitting to the side. Winter project maybe. I have enough projects stockpiled in the meantime to avoid looking at the overpriced junk on fleabay at least.

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The T3-01 not far out enough for you? :D
 

Tamiya releases lots of new chassis, way more than any other manufacturer.  They are still popular and I find that kids / young people are aware of Tamiya kits.
 

I’ve been part of a small team organising a national Tamiya under 16’s race series that is already popular, and growing at a good rate. The TT02 is a brilliant first time kit, easy to build, easy to fix and the shells look like real cars, again a cool thing for the youngsters.

Regarding developments on release chassis, I’ve noticed changes in some of the hubs etc that I buy on my TRF’s over the years. 

The short runs make sense, it’s better to sell out and do another batch once you see the sales data, than have stock sitting in warehouses. The issues are that at the moment there is demand way higher than anytime since the 90’s and world freight etc is still under strain from the pandemic. This leads to longer delays and more chance of things selling out. Just look at the bonkers prices people are buying cars for on eBay.

As to feedback, as mentioned earlier it’s mainly going to be based on distributors feedback. 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, qatmix said:

The T3-01 not far out enough for you? :D

You got me there mate :). That and the mini Lunch Box were legitimately different and inventive.

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